What's Ironic about AD squishy vs AP Squishy

taleofsonata·Jan 7, 2018·96 votes·4,928 views

AD Squishy complain about them getting one shot. When they don't build defensive items.

AP Squishy complain about getting one shot. Even if they build Defensive item.

125 Comments

meowwow7Jan 7, 201846 votes

or yet supports saying they have no impact buying actual support items and they build item 3109 item 3190 item 3222 item 3107 item 3117 item 2303 and not use any of their active

T4underboltJan 7, 20183 votes

Well some supports dont really need actives. With shield heal power giving so much they can shield adc for its full hp without actives.

meowwow7Jan 7, 20186 votes

yeah that might be the case but if the damage you are protecting gets stunned or whatever. what's going to help more getting unstunned with a item 3222 , or a shield on you that will delay you from getting bursted, or in a rare case scenario the support doing both to where the adc gets unstunned, and does the damage while being shielded? btw 3 of those active items i listed don't provide any shield/heal amp

Troll for TrumpJan 7, 20183 votes

That's true, but unrelated...

SpecterVonBarenJan 7, 20182 votes

I haven't seen anyone build Crucible in years.

meowwow7Jan 7, 20182 votes

i tend to build it as taric for the passive, active, mr, and mana regen that's if the game lasted long enough for a full build support so mostly my build as him would look like this item 3401 item 2045 item 3047 item 3190

BârdJan 7, 201820 votes

Both of them have defensive items.

The difference is that one of them has their defensive items on their person, while the other has their defensive items on their ~~ward slave~~ support.

Z3SleeperJan 7, 20183 votes

But they both have a support :o

After laning phase ofc

NineTailedMysticJan 7, 20182 votes

If your Support saves you and you're not their ADC, you're either single handedly carrying them, or they're a god support.

AzadetheJan 7, 20183 votes

Not hard for most supports to come to a point in a game where they realize: I need to leave this adc to farm so they can level while I can help a different lane.

I do that all the time on Nami. It's easy to gank mid with Nami and get them rolling, or go help top. If a support never roams away from an adc they really aren't doing their job.

You are aware the current #1 support in all ranked is a major roamer who pathologically roams with Thresh/Bard?

HópeJan 7, 20188 votes

{quoted}

AD Squishy complain about them getting one shot. When they don't build defensive items.

AP Squishy complain about getting one shot. Even if they build Defensive item.

Whats ironic about AP champs vs AD champs is that

Ap champs have been beyond meta in the mid lane competitively for how long? And even in plat+ an AP ranged champ is preferred as you can see by win rates on these websites

na.op.gg champion.gg lolking.net

But you're right lets keep acting like ad champs are bitching when ap champs are the better ones right now.

TheThundersRoarJan 7, 201822 votes

Hmm...

AP mages are sharing the midlane with assassins. Many games have a Yasuo or Zed or whatever mid and no AP mage. They're simply not that necessary. Occasionally, they can go top.

ADCs bot have been mandatory since season 1. If you don't have one, you lost. They're also strong in the jungle, toplane, and some can go mid and even support. Early season 7 saw 4 ADC teams in pro play.

The only time APs were even comparable to ADCs was directly after the big mage update, and even then you still needed at least 1 ADC on your team to stand a chance.

So, no.

Zed geniusJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hmm...

AP mages are sharing the midlane with assassins. Many games have a Yasuo or Zed or whatever mid and no AP mage. They're simply not that necessary. Occasionally, they can go top.

ADCs bot have been mandatory since season 1. If you don't have one, you lost. They're also strong in the jungle, toplane, and some can go mid and even support. Early season 7 saw 4 ADC teams in pro play.

The only time APs were even comparable to ADCs was directly after the big mage update, and even then you still needed at least 1 ADC on your team to stand a chance.

So, no.

AP champs are necessary to avoid a full ad team comp that usually leads to a loss if the enemy has a tank and their squishies go tabis. You are saying that ap's are sharing their lane with assassins,which is true, but there are plenty of ap assassins as well. Also if you think of it the other way, if riot makes mages more broken than worlds patch janna, where are the ad assassins going to go? Zed top lane? Talon Jungle?

HópeJan 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Hmm...

AP mages are sharing the midlane with assassins. Many games have a Yasuo or Zed or whatever mid and no AP mage. They're simply not that necessary. Occasionally, they can go top.

ADCs bot have been mandatory since season 1. If you don't have one, you lost. They're also strong in the jungle, toplane, and some can go mid and even support. Early season 7 saw 4 ADC teams in pro play.

The only time APs were even comparable to ADCs was directly after the big mage update, and even then you still needed at least 1 ADC on your team to stand a chance.

So, no.

What do you mean ''so no''

OP is comparing AP champs vs AD champs itemization, my point is if AD champs were truly better in the mid lane, they wouldnt be picked so frequently in anything past plat and competitive play, when was the last time you seen zed/yasuo/talon mid in competitive

~~i forgot how easy it is for the boards to just upvote something and go off-track or take out of context though~~

TheThundersRoarJan 8, 20181 votes

Oh I didn't see that you were specifically talking about midlane. I read your comment as "AP mages are better than ADCs".

Well, I still disagree. They're "better" in the midlane to avoid piling too much physical damage in a comp. They're still worse than ADCs straight up, because ADCs do more damage, are relevant when behind, are more mobile, and even come in AoE.

That being said, this thread is shit, so don't count me on OP's side.

HópeJan 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Oh I didn't see that you were specifically talking about midlane. I read your comment as "AP mages are better than ADCs".

Well, I still disagree. They're "better" in the midlane to avoid piling too much physical damage in a comp. They're still worse than ADCs straight up, because ADCs do more damage, are relevant when behind, are more mobile, and even come in AoE.

That being said, this thread is shit, so don't count me on OP's side.

How the hell are you saying ''ADCs do more damage, are relevant when behind are more mobile and even come in AoE''

Jinx MissFortune Twitch Xayah are the Only adcs that do AOE damage

Meanwhile nearly every AP champ in the mid lane does AOE damage

You also said ''Are relevant when behind''

Um....? How? Unless you're talking about utility adcs like sivir jhin and ashe in that case every ap champ with a form of CC is relevent when behind..

Have you ever played adc and got behind? Your autos do about 50 to anything with just a bit of armor and you are DEFINITLY not going to win a 1v1 with even the support when behind.

You also said ''ADCs do more damage''

How do adcs do more damage than mid laners if supports are soloing adcs in the bot lane and guess what these supports consist of mid laners and people are saying supports ARE supposed to be stronger than adcs in the early game.

So im not sure where you come off with anything of what you said being valid. Literally your whole sentence seems to be coming from an extreme lack of experience.

SagaxwikiJan 8, 20181 votes

Ashe Corki Draven Graves Jhin Kalista KogMaw Lucian Sivir Tristana Varus also have some type of AoE damage in their kit or (in the case of kog/kalista) in their core items.

HópeJan 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

also have some type of AoE damage in their kit or (in the case of kog/kalista) in their core items.

Yes, some adcs also have some type of AoE damage but he said adcs have better AOE than ap champs. This is a false statement.

Ashes W dravens ult jhins Q and E kalistas ult doesnt do damage Lucians Q varus Q and E tristanas E none of it is more ''aoe'' than any ap champ. None of it.

Also if you're going to say ''some have aoe damage in their core items'' then that is like saying Shen has wave clear because he gets tiamat. Shen has horrible wave clear.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20188 votes

Lol a mage building ninja tabi instead of item 3020

that should be a good meme

BeatzBoyFTWJan 7, 201843 votes

We have ADCs building item 3302 . We have Klepto GP and Nasus going item 3301 item 3303 . And that's your issue?

AhristocatsJan 7, 20187 votes

exactly which mage is not going to build mr pen boots?

they're broken af, combined with liandry you will deal true damage to every squishy and increase your total damage by 30%

and void staff 40% magic pen is applied BEFORE flat mr pen, and mr can be negative in this game you really think that a mage won't be building item 3020 ?

BeatzBoyFTWJan 7, 201821 votes

Sometimes having pure damage when you're getting shit on may not be a necessary purchase. Just like how ADCs like Lucian or Jhin prefers buying Ninja Tabi over Berserker Greaves or Lucidity Boots

AhristocatsJan 7, 20188 votes

reducing damage by 10% against a single type of damage>dealing 30% more damage

got it

BeatzBoyFTWJan 7, 201825 votes

What 30% more damage? Oh sorry, you got one-shot by a Zed.

Now show me that 30% damage. Come on.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20186 votes

implying that zed can ever oneshot someone

implying that zed can ever touch a mage that can instantly cc him once he gets out of ult, and when the entire team of a mage can cc him

If you think that mages are the one getting oneshot, instead of the one oneshoting people from 800 range bro i will just let you play your own game

BeatzBoyFTWJan 7, 201820 votes

Points just flies over your head, don't they.

Not everyone can be as skillful as the pros or some sort. Sometimes they would've prefer going on the defensive builds if they can't be on the offensive so much due to being heavily pressured & etc. Hence, why I mentioned that item 3020 is not necessarily a 100% build path.

NyarlathοtepJan 7, 20188 votes

Dont bother trying to argue with rubick. Besides, its common fact that zed can close the distance to reach a mage. Most mages have their cc on skillshots. Also zed can buy qss and get rid of that said cc.

DisembarkJan 7, 20185 votes

Before 6 if Zed is able to all-in you that’s a misplay BY YOU. Means you wasted cooldowns and then promptly greeded for CS or harass when you had no tools to discourage an all-in.

After 6 you have a free ass “you can’t ult me button” with stopwatch, and then after lvl 8 or so, if Zed is finding you alone then once again, it’s a misplay on your part.

There’s a reason Zed is never picked in higher elos besides by 1tricks.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20186 votes

even if he ults

if you're orianna for instance you can just time your ult when he's going to appear again and fuck him so hard

mages are the one who oneshots not assassins or adcs

NyarlathοtepJan 7, 20185 votes

Wait wait what? I mean yeah you are right that zed has to wait for his ulti to deal most of the dmg, but in the scenario you provided a smart zed would had opted for maws, making difficult for orianna to burst him faster than he can. Though considering that orianna has her shield she might be able to kill zed if she has zhonyas. But again thats because she is one of the few mages with shield.

Zed geniusJan 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Wait wait what? I mean yeah you are right that zed has to wait for his ulti to deal most of the dmg, but in the scenario you provided a smart zed would had opted for maws, making difficult for orianna to burst him faster than he can. Though considering that orianna has her shield she might be able to kill zed if she has zhonyas. But again thats because she is one of the few mages with shield.

that's 100% true, but there are other mages and mid laners in general that can beat zed without having a shield Syndra Ahri Corki are a few examples (again they are not counters by any means, but nor zed counters them,whoever plays better in these matchups wins)

TeCoolMageJan 8, 20182 votes

Mid lane corki plays as a poke mage for the most part, up until they all-in and use auto attacks. It's kind of like a weird ziggs that has his passive always up

Zed geniusJan 7, 20182 votes

Qss is 1300 that give you no damage. Forcing a zed to buy that, especially early will hurt his damage and delay his powerspikes. Also zed is supposed to win his lane and get ahead. Why are people complaining so much about it? His early game is supposed to be strong as well as his mid game, while having a mediocre to bad lategame. It is quite simple to beat him(or maybe I just know my favorite champion's weaknesses) and personally i never have a problem against zeds. The fact that people are complaining because champions are doing their intended thing that were designed for is actually dumb.

NyarlathοtepJan 7, 20182 votes

1st of all. Unless the hard cc is point and click, there is no need to buy qss early on. 2nd of all. Why people complain about zed? Oh well, how about we want to play the game? And not sit under turret waiting for our jungler. Or that we want to play the champions we want to play and not his counter. I get that his late game , as every other assassin, sucks, but still his early game is absurd strong. Like come on, ive been in a game against a good zed, and i was useless the whole game. We couldnt even reach late game because turrets fall so fast.

Zed geniusJan 7, 20182 votes

the turrets fall so fast because ad carries are one shotting them once they get 1.5 items

Pigeon ReformedJan 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sometimes having pure damage when you're getting shit on may not be a necessary purchase. Just like how ADCs like Lucian or Jhin prefers buying Ninja Tabi over Berserker Greaves or Lucidity Boots

Well those adcs also don't really profit that much from zerks. But u're right.

AzadetheJan 7, 20184 votes

Doesn't mean a damn thing if an adc can 2 shot you, or a fed jungler or a fed top. Sorcery boot only mages often have 10+ death games. Sometimes you don't even need the penetration.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Sorcery boot only mages often have 10+ death games.

correction

in your games :^)

ThilmerJan 7, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rEAxd6Yo,comment-id=00050000000000020000,timestamp=2018-01-07T13:16:38.508+0000)

correction

in your games :^)

This is so stupid and unrelated it doesn't count as a valid argument.

Show me an argument that has some logic or shut up. [slayer-jinx-wink]

AhristocatsJan 7, 20184 votes

i need logic to explain why 100% of midlaners build mr pen boots above d1?

wow ok the logic is written above btw XD but it's fine it's fine!

Zed geniusJan 7, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rEAxd6Yo,comment-id=0005000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-07T14:48:32.647+0000)

i need logic to explain why 100% of midlaners build mr pen boots above d1?

Talon item 3020 agreed

DivewingJan 7, 20184 votes

Talon item 3146 I don't see the problem here

Jinzo TorranceJan 7, 20182 votes

Show some proof?

http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=hideonbush http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=ksvmidcrown http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=chapanya

Just to name a few competitive players (Faker, Crown and Shiptur) don't build Pen boots everygame like you're saying, they build defensive boots or CDR ones. Low sample size again? Where's yours?

AhristocatsJan 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rEAxd6Yo,comment-id=0005000000000005,timestamp=2018-01-07T20:33:32.071+0000)

Low sample size again?

yes those are low sample

but i won't continue this argue anymore, when i say "all" it doesn't mean WOW EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ARE BUILDING IT

it means that in most situations you take them and they're really strong dealing pure damage, or 30% more damage isn't a joke

if your burst deals 1500 damage, you suddenly deals 2000 damage

do whatever you want but don't expect mages to be buffed

Jinzo TorranceJan 7, 20184 votes

I never said I want mages to be buffed (I mostly only play one of them, and other 2 situationally, idc for the rest for bias) but your argument starting with:

"Lol a mage building ninja tabi instead of item 3020 ; that should be a good meme" "exactly which mage is not going to build mr pen boots?" "and mr can be negative in this game you really think that a mage won't be building ?"

Kinda make it seems that you're implying that everyone on every mage is rushing Sorcs boots to instantly deal fat true damage, which is true, stacking pen is strong as fuck right now and Liandry's is being built on every mage every game, but Sorcs are not really as widespread as you make it out to be looking at high ELO players.

TeCoolMageJan 8, 20181 votes

You can't make MR negative with MPen items.

AhristocatsJan 8, 20181 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_penetration

TeCoolMageJan 11, 20181 votes

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/mo6io3xyqqqg4u5/Photo%2012-1-18%2C%2012%2034%2013%20am.jpg

ThilmerJan 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

We have ADCs building . We have Klepto GP and Nasus going . And that's your issue?

I remember not so long ago everyone was buying ninja tabi since that was more effective than buying armour.

ThilmerJan 7, 20188 votes

{quoted}

AD Squishy complain about them getting one shot. When they don't build defensive items.

AP Squishy complain about getting one shot. Even if they build Defensive item.

Funniest part is that AD squishy can only die if oneshotted; otherwise it will recovered all the HP bar in 3 seconds because of that stupid thing called lifesteal.