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Rework Yi, Remove Youmuu's Ghostblade

Diamondserpent··3 votes·3,667 views

I find it ironic that Riot bangs on about teamplay and yet has an item like Youmuu's Ghostblade in the game. Combined with MasterYi , it becomes overly toxic, this also happens to champs like Zed who get it. Seriously, what is the point Riot in trying to use AP champs if you give such favor to AD in terms of itemization. I know that MasterYi is considered a "noob champ" but still, why do champions like him even exist? I bet in the hands of a pro, he can become an extremely toxic splitpusher. His Alpha Strike has a rediculous range which rivals most skillshot based spells (check, his Alpha Strike is activatable from the same range as Karma's Q). His ult is on way too small and cooldown and lasts FAR TOO LONG. Infact, I think its one of the longest lasting ults in League. By removing his ability to be slowed, you are basically sending a big "FUCK YOU" to all mages that don't have reliable point and click CC or Knock-ups. Why does he even HAVE a heal when he builds lifesteal AND why is it the only heal in the game that increases his damage reduction. Seriously, what is it with you Riot?

You seem to want AD champs to be overloaded to the core, even from the START of league. Are AP mages firing skillshots boring because they might miss? So tell me why Yi's Alpha Strike HAS to be point and click... explain the logic of increasing numbers of toxic AD champs with point and click abilities when mages get all theirs removed.

E.g.

MasterYi Riven Zed MonkeyKing Udyr Irelia PantheonVayne - ALL AD - All point and Click abilities (Guaranteed 100% Accuracy)

Zilean Syndra Lissandra SonaVeigar - ALL AP - Mages that either had or have point and click - ALL NERFED

I think its pretty clear Riot is biased to AD champs. Especially if you compare item 3153 to item 3151 which are supposed to be mirror items but ARN'T as item 3153 gives more stats. Another example is item 3087 and item 3285. (Luden's Nerfed and Deathfire got trashed and Statik not touched because of precious AD Yasuo ).

Tell me I'm wrong? Can somebody offer an explanation for this blatant one-sidedness I keep seeing here?

33 Comments

Serevas4 votes

Annie Brand Anivia Cassiopeia Diana Ekko Fiddlesticks Fizz Leblanc Malzahar Katarina Kassadin Ryze Viktor Vladimir

What could this list be? Mages with point and click abilities that are still VERY strong currently.

I find it hard to believe you included Sona as a point and click mage. Also please tell me where Riven's point and click ability is, I seem to have missed it since they're all skill shots. Also Zed's only point and click is the application of his ultimate, you still have to hit his other abilities that are all skill shots. Furthermore Udyr doesn't count as a point and click, because all of his abilities are amplified auto attacks, as are Vayne's. Pantheon has 2/4 abilities as skillshots, one of which is basically impossible to actually hit.

Luden's got nerfed because 100 dmg + 15% of AP could result in 220 dmg burst all over the place, Statikk Shiv deals flat 100 dmg with the ability to crit. You're right though, we can't have precious AD Yasuo nerfed, which is why we removed 5% critical chance from Infinity Edge, and put it on Phantom Dancer, which he can't build without wasting stats, and now he is unable to reach 100% critical strike chance like previous unless he builds Trinity Force, or replaces virtually all of his runes with critical strike chance runes. You're right, can't nerf Yasuo's game presence at all.

AD items can total up to likely about half the AD that you would get AP if building AP items instead. Additionally AP is granted the benefit of having absolutely pitiful resistances for purchase. What do you build vs AD? Armor, what items do I look at for armor? item 3110 100 armor, item 3075 100 armor, item 3143 70 armor. What do you build vs AP? item 3065 55 MR, item 3102 55 MR, item 3001 50 MR.

But you can build item 3111 and get 25MR from boots you say? item 3047 Equal value of armor + 10% reduction from basic attacks, which everyone that builds AD uses. Overall substantially better damage reduction.

AxlRose092 votes

Never thought of Yi as much of a threat to be honest, because if you don't start off right you end up getting shit on the rest of the game. I've always considered Yi as more of a troll champ than anything. I agree about the items, however. Definitely biased towards AD champs. I love my AP champs but I still haven't found a good way to build most of them simply because their items can be absolutely useless sometimes. It's frustrating, to say the least.

Diamondserpent1 votes

Especially since spells and abilities are unable to crit so AD already have one extremely powerful mechanic which they can use to their advantage in a fight. Yasuo

AxlRose092 votes

Haden't even thought of that, but that's a very good point. They SHOULD be able to crit.

Diamondserpent1 votes

I agree, they should be able to crit, just like anything else and items like Luden's Echo can increase spell crit chance too.

pripustas3 votes

Tell me all about how AD who have 2 times or more less AD than you have AP, and MR is more expensive, and there are fewer MR items.

Serevas4 votes

Not to mention that the MR items have smaller MR values as well.

What is it? Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil have 55MR and that's the highest MR value on all of Summoner's Rift.

Compared to things like Frozen Heart and Thornmail which each have an armor value of almost double the value of SV or BV.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Haden't even thought of that, but that's a very good point. They SHOULD be able to crit.

Why? People already hate how ADC damage is essentially random and games can be decided based on who crits and when in the early-mid game. Why would you want to turn AP damage from consistent and reliable to random? That's a horrible proposal.

AxlRose091 votes

Good point, but then again, APs always do the same amount of damage while ADs do their damage and MORE at times.

Khoul3 votes

spells have aoe and ads only crit by using auto attacks. there's a good reason that spells don't crit.

AxlRose092 votes

Still, items can increase crit chance but for APs there's no equivalent to that. Stronger aoe? More range? Enemy crits could be pretty scary depending on build and strength.

Khoul1 votes

It's still a bad idea because you'll spawn atrocities like Nidalee who can 1 shot with spears.

AxlRose091 votes

And yet, the example that was given: Youmuus on Yi. There is no AP equivalent to that, is there? ADs can do ridiculous amounts of damage with something like that and I can't think of a single AP champ that could potentially be that fatal.

Khoul2 votes

the problem is, AP champions deal burst damage and ADs deal sustained damage and that means that 3/4 of your health will be taken away by Zyra's ultimate and this will make mages way too dominant in late game since they deal AOE damage. Most ap champions with spell crit will be problematic i mean just imagine a 5 man Annie ult with spell crit. It's not a good idea.

AxlRose091 votes

There are ADs that can deal burst though. So maybe giving APs crit isn't the best way to go, but I still think they need a stronger equivalent to that.

Serevas1 votes

That's actually an insane comparison, because the only item that could have similar effect would allow a rapid fire of abilities, which would eliminate everyone in a teamfight in a matter of seconds. It would be a massively broken item.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Still, items can increase crit chance but for APs there's no equivalent to that. Stronger aoe? More range? Enemy crits could be pretty scary depending on build and strength.

The equivalent of the AD crit chance is the Deathcap AP amp.

AxlRose091 votes

You can build crit strike chance from so many items but only Deathcap for AP? Once again, hardly seems fair.

Serevas1 votes

Look at it like this. Unless you reach 100% critical strike chance, you don't get guaranteed damage from getting critical strike chance. 30% bonus AP directly translates to 30% bonus damage, guaranteed.

AxlRose091 votes

But that's only 30%. You can easily build higher crit chance than that on an AD champ.

Serevas2 votes

Yes you can, but it's STILL NOT GUARANTEED DAMAGE. You have say...55% chance to crit, as that's what most ADCs run with. That means that out of every 20 auto attacks you make 11 with critically strike.

For Mages, having deathcap for every 20 spells you cast, 20 of them will do 30% more damage.

Do you see the difference? Damage you get all the time, vs damage you might not get at all.

I don't know how much you play champions like Xerath, but his combo of basic abilities is enough to vaporize carries, and most bruiser champions late game, tanks run away with missing limbs, and he does this all from a distance, where most of the melee champions that you and the OP seem to be complaining about, have to stand in your face to apply their damage, have virtually zero cc of any form, and themselves can be CC'd and instantly blown up because they're squishy.

Champions you guys mentioned.

MasterYi Absolutely Zero CC Tryndamere Slow that only applies if you're facing away from him. Yasuo Knock up that requires him to be on top of you, in which case you were way out of position, or a very finicky skill shot. Zed Slow that requires the enemy to be a complete idiot to apply it. Vayne Knockback that has to hit a wall to stun.

Those are the only champions that build any intentional critical strike, and only two of them have hard CC and it's extremely conditional, since one has to hit a wall, and the other has to be charged up then perfectly aimed since it's not a very wide skill shot, or again you have to be massively out of position.

I could land most of the hard CC on AP champions while having a stroke.

The comparisons you two are making are not only unequal, but also irrational.

Crossette1 votes

{quoted}

Especially since spells and abilities are unable to crit so AD already have one extremely powerful mechanic which they can use to their advantage in a fight. Yasuo

If spells can crit then Katarina is the fucking meta. No no no no no.

pripustas1 votes

Sure, let's gut melee carries. But we're gonna reduce your damage, speed and kiting ability by alot. No more slow, hard cc, skills/items, and your speed is reduced by 100-150 at least. Try playing a melee carry. Maybe you'll learn why Yi, Trynda (doesn't have point ant click skills btw), etc have point ant click skills, and "bullshit" ults.

Diamondserpent1 votes

Yi doesn't need an ult that makes him immune to slows and lasts for that long, especially when his base MS is quite high and he gets boosts from his boots and item 3142 .

pripustas1 votes

Please, go and play some matches as Yi, Trynda, Fiora. I think you'll change your mind. Try and fight some 5x5's. And if you think they're so OP, how come I don't see them in competitive play that much? They should be ban or pick, like azir or viktor, right?

Serevas1 votes

I'll counter that statement with Kalista, but that's an entirely different story.

pripustas1 votes

Kalista is an entirely different story. Ranged More mobile than any other champion in game Insane damage ????

Serevas1 votes

I'm pretty sure my statement said in the end of it "but that's an entirely different story."

pripustas1 votes

I've confirmed. An entirely different story.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

5 man viktor laser crit = gg wp

Serevas1 votes

I'd play nothing, but Xerath every time I got mid lane. Sorry did I just crit you from across the map with zero chance for repercussions? Sorry my bad, have another.

xo Violet1 votes

Luden's offers more poke and was more punishing because it had scaling and was not just flat damage, like Statik. Also this just sounds like you are butthurt about the champs you like getting nerfed, but ALL of those AD champions you listed were also nerfed. Please.

JayenKei1 votes

Hmmm let's think

Ahri: ms boost, true damage, hard cc with charm, three Dashes + flash Annie: tibbers, free thornmail, aoe stun and damage, easy farming with mana refund from q Akali: spell vamp, three targeted Dashes, safe farming with q, invisibility, aoe slow, energy Anivia : egg, toggle ult, e does 200% damage to chilled targets (there's your ap crit), aoe slow and chill, wall can isolate targets, aoe stun Azir: godly poke and zoning, stackable slow, dash+ shield + knock up, ult knocks up, disengage, engages, isolates, etc, extreme dps Casseopia: stacks, game changing ult, damage with E can probably outclassed most adcs, easy farm, easy zoning, incredible scaling Fizz: troll pole, targeted dash, q applies on hit, w does percent damage and applies grievous wounds, ult is a knock up, slow, damage and damage amp all in one Orianna: powerful shield, slow, Ms boost, knock up that groups enemy team together Viktor: huge damage with E, amazing eave clear, aoe stun, shield and Ms boost, aoe ult Lissandra: blink, q harass, slows, aoe snare, her ult can be a zhonyas for herself or a free target for her team, it also does aoe damage

Please overloaded kits? I can make anything sound overloaded if I focus on every strength for every champ.

Master yi: no cc, hella squishy, doesn't bring anything for the team except damage, contrary to popular belief he has an extremely high skill cap but low skill floor Riven: high skill cap but low skill floor, squishy, cc destroys her, can't team fight, easily kited by any add that knows how to attack move proficiently Zed: gg most ap laners build zhonyas, no hard cc, bad team fight, ult has conditional damage Udyr: just be ready to get kited Vayne: shortest ranged adc next to Quinn, conditional stun, needs to afk farm Pantheon: nearly impossible to land ult, falls off really fast, squishy for a bruiser Irelia: she needs a nerf lol

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