Increse Randuin's Omen to 3000 gold

Irelia Bot·Jun 16, 2017·158 votes·3,724 views

Increase the health to 400 from 350

Make it build out of Giants belt instead of 2 ruby crystals

This is not going to break the game but it is going to make Omen have a more user friendly build path.

84 Comments

LankPantsJun 16, 201731 votes

Go full ham and increase it to 3300 gold, build path item 1029 item 3082 item 1011 + 1000 gold, 500 HP, 60 armour, same passives+active.

Give tanks a big item they can itemise for if they snowball and a true lategame item.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Go full ham and increase it to 3300 gold, build path + 1000 gold, 500 HP, 60 armour, same passives+active.

Give tanks a big item they can itemise for if they snowball and a true lategame item.

Their lategame item with actives and passives is item 3193 .

RalanrJun 16, 20174 votes

I truly despise that item.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I truly despise that item.

Then you don't understand what tanking is all about. Tanking is about going in or staying back, becoming a giant monster that blocks skill shots, takes burst and laughs it off. Why would a tank want anything else?

RalanrJun 16, 20173 votes

Honestly? I don't like how long it lasts. Feels too short for me (but then again I play Sion mainly, who is so telegraphed that I can't do much within those 4 seconds. At best I could do the stoneplate and locket combo when I ult in, but that's better on a Warden than a vanguard).

Maybe if I played more champions with taunts I can utilize it better, but idk.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20171 votes

Yes, you as a player need to express some skill with the timing of your actives and the actions you take following that active in order to use the item to its strengths. That's fine, it adds more skill to the tank role itself, which I'm all for.

Even if you don't have the active though, if you're in a team fight you have 80 armor and 80 MR on a single item, which is fantastic on a late game tank.

RalanrJun 16, 20172 votes

That's probably why I'm hating the item. I hate having items with actives and would rather focus on my 4 abilities rather than getting 1 or 2 extra abilities with ult level cooldowns.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's probably why I'm hating the item. I hate having items with actives and would rather focus on my 4 abilities rather than getting 1 or 2 extra abilities with ult level cooldowns.

Randuin's Omen has an active as well, you know.

RalanrJun 16, 20173 votes

Yeah, I know. Doesn't mean I like using actives.

I can accept having at least one active item in my build. I don't like needing three or more freaking active items.

LankPantsJun 16, 201716 votes

It's not really a late game item though. It's only a 2500 gold item, it's passive is very limited in terms of time span and when there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad. It's pretty firmly a midgame item just like every other tank item in the game, certainly far more so than Rand's in the range I'm suggesting.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20172 votes

When there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad...but when there's not 3+ enemies around you don't really have a need for a tank. Tanks aren't duelists, you don't need a tank to win a 2v1 or a 1v2. A good 5v5 brawl, that's when tanks should and do shine.

LankPantsJun 16, 20177 votes

When there's not 3+ enemies around it's just bad...but when there's not 3+ enemies around you don't really have a need for a tank.

When you're a top lane tank or Galio mid the fact that it's only 40 armour and MR is very relevant. You need to be able to split and at least hold your own VS a single target so you can make use of your TP. These are the tanks who are truly hurting for itemisation anyway, from the support or jungle role you can just go Locket/Stoneplate and drop 2K AoE shields, that's fine for those roles. It doesn't fly top lane though, you can't buy those items because you need some 1v1 power.

The main people who'd look at a Rand's like that would be top laners anyway. They just get more gold, so they actually can invest into a huge item. It would only be tops and incredibly snowballed junglers who'd want a 3.3k tank item.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20171 votes

No, tanks shouldn't be able to split push at all. The fact that Shen can split push so well is part of the reason he's such a headache to balance. Tanks should always be with the team, always team fighting. They shine in that regard, and they should be bad at taking objectives because that's the benefit of running a juggernaut or a diver who builds AD over a tank.

Tanks do not belong in top lane. Riot does not need to fix this, they've already changed the itemization to fit the role. What needs to happen is players need to adapt and change their champion pools. Tanks should just naturally move away from top lane because they do not fit the role of a top laner in the meta and lack the itemization for it. They should only be junglers and supports.

LankPantsJun 16, 201724 votes

Tanks do not belong in top lane

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Thanks for that.

Toplane tanks have literally always been a thing. Malphite has been played in the toplane as long as I've played LoL (and that's quite a long time), even in S2 when the majority of tanks went jungle and it was mostly bruisers in the toplane there were still tanks like Malphite and Cho'gath who were often toplaners.

You're not just asking players to adapt their pool by removing tank tops, you're killing off an entire style of play that's existed as long as League itself. The game would certainly be worse for it.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20172 votes

Yes, but the entire fucking role was just updated.

Tanks have had issues with farming since they were created. That's why, shocker, so many tanks cannot lane. You know how many tanks actually exist in top? Less than 10 at any given time, usually the number is closer to 5. You know how many tanks can't top? Amumu Sejuani Alistar Leona Braum Blitzcrank Rammus Skarner Zac Gragas Ivern Nunu Taric Thresh

That's been the standard for ages. Now, what changed in the MYTU? Well, we had Sunfire Cape absolutely gutted. This item was part of the reason tanks could go top lane, because it allowed them to keep up pressure, to split push effectively, and to farm without really dying too quickly.

Now, every single tank item in the game has been changed. Most of them give less health. Most of them are less effective as a rush item. Spirit Visage has been gutted as well, by the way.

Top lane is a lane full of duelists. Your one item spike MATTERS. The goal of the update was to reduce the power of a tank's one-item spike. They cannot. CANNOT. Function in the top lane without this, which is why Riot had to buff like three tanks a few patches ago, because people who are insistent on playing tanks in the top lane still are losing. Badly.

LankPantsJun 16, 20175 votes

Sejuani, Gragas, Skarner and Zac are all completely playable top. Rammus, Amumu, Nunu and Taric can also be made to work.

I've been playing Sejuani 80% top since the rework. It's better than Sejuani jungle and she has a 1 item spike, be that from buying IBG or Triforce as I do.

This item was part of the reason tanks could go top lane, because it allowed them to keep up pressure, to split push effectively, and to farm without really dying too quickly.

And now tanks are subing it out for IBG as a rush. It does effectively the same thing, you get an AoE as well as CDR and mana so you can spam waveclear spells.

Spirit Visage has been gutted as well, by the way.

In what world? SV is an amazing item. If you have healing on your kit it's even more powerful than it was before, if not then Abyssal exists and almost every tank can use it.

Top lane is a lane full of duelists. Your one item spike MATTERS.

IBG. It's a 1 item spike. It's good enough to deal with most AD tops. AP tops tend to struggle with tanks anyway since they can just go Cowl and ignore them.

kasfasJun 16, 20172 votes

I've been going Righteous glory into titanic. It's not too bad, RG gives everything but wave clear and mr but some tanks already have waveclear and you can get mr from mercs treads.

Titanic is good for duels and quickly pushing lane so you can roam more.

Then I go full tank. I think if I was a better player this build would be working more, but I suck too much to have it go my way.

LankPantsJun 16, 20171 votes

I don't mind RG rush to be honest. It's certainly far from a bad choice.

I just find Triforce rush too good to pass up on Sejuani specifically. I get two procs off in every trade anyway, W procs the MS on Phage and the AS makes stuns far easier, so the specific synergy is really good.

kasfasJun 16, 20171 votes

No I completely understand that different champions have different needs for itemization, and IBG/TriF might be what sejuani needs. But the build I've been using gives everything that I need with hp and the rest, plus titanic is a really good duelling item too especially on sion.

LankPantsJun 16, 20171 votes

As I said, I like Righteous Glory, I think it's a heavily overstated item right now, I think it's probably a better HP/Armour item than Rand's right now. I think I'll probably start building it more, especially into heavy AD.

I do like Titanic as well, just later on. It's great as a 5th or 6th item, it's just hard to slot into a build early.

Glory ln DeathJun 16, 20171 votes

Sion's what cancel?

kasfasJun 16, 20171 votes

Tiamat

Iota ThetaJun 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As I said, I like Righteous Glory, I think it's a heavily overstated item right now, I think it's probably a better HP/Armour item than Rand's right now. I think I'll probably start building it more, especially into heavy AD.

I do like Titanic as well, just later on. It's great as a 5th or 6th item, it's just hard to slot into a build early.

I like RG most for the speed boost on Mao to get closer for W..or reposition to block off an escape with the ult. I miss the catalyst passive on it though, and am contemplating using Abyssal more if the change goes through (I know people disagree with the change, but that's a topic for a different thread. Me? I'm just gonna adapt).

RalanrJun 16, 20177 votes

So...tanks that are specifically balanced around top lane are not balanced around jungle because?

Poppy, Sion, Malphite, Galio, Gnar, etc.

LimrickJun 16, 20171 votes

To be fair, all of those are decent junglers already and could easily be rebalanced to fit there, except Gnar, but he isn't really a tank always, given his kit.

Morgan le FeyJun 16, 20171 votes

I'm honestly not sure where but top Gnar could go. I guess into the right matchup he could get away with mid? But idk why he would.

RalanrJun 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rA0LEmKR,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-16T14:00:48.890+0000)

No, tanks shouldn't be able to split push at all. The fact that Shen can split push so well is part of the reason he's such a headache to balance. Tanks should always be with the team, always team fighting. They shine in that regard, and they should be bad at taking objectives because that's the benefit of running a juggernaut or a diver who builds AD over a tank.

I do agree with this kinda. Splitpushing as a tank is a very slow process that's better accomplish as pretty much any other top laner.

Tanks do not belong in top lane. Riot does not need to fix this, they've already changed the itemization to fit the role. What needs to happen is players need to adapt and change their champion pools. Tanks should just naturally move away from top lane because they do not fit the role of a top laner in the meta and lack the itemization for it. They should only be junglers and supports.

This is where I disagree. I know you are very solid on your stance on where tanks belong, but it is clear that Riot does balance some tanks (Sion, Galio, Poppy) around top lane. The biggest reason? Sunfire cape exists (despite how bad it actually is) separate from cinderhulk.

Both of these are waveclear items, but while one is for jungle clearing the other is for lane clearing. Who else would buy this? Not the support who is supposed to give their CS to their adc, not the jungler who has cinderhulk, and certainly not the midlaner.

It's a top lane tank item.

Now granted, it's horrible at its job since pretty much every tank designed for top (and jungle) has some form of AoE damage, which makes sunfire a bit redundant since it's supposed to help tanks farm. If it had its old radius, then it'd probably be used more and we wouldn't have tanks stacking rings so they can spam their CC abilities to farm (abilities they are not supposed to spam often anyway since it would be too much CC in a fight).

But no. Riot cut the radius down, making it poor as a lane item while it's jungle brother functions more or less ok.

See, the problem here is that the item still exists. Which means that Riot does balance some tanks around top. They just really messed up their farming and now have to deal with tank mana spam fixes.

The Yetii RiderJun 16, 20171 votes

There are plenty of items that Riot has broken and no longer exist, it doesn't mean that they consider those champions to be part of the lane.

They still haven't removed item 3056 yet, so I don't think "Sunfire Cape is still around guys" is a good enough argument to validate that claim.

I could just as easily argue that item 3071 exists, which is an item that top laners can easily rush to punish tanks and bully them so hard they become food. If this item, which is an incredible power spike, very easy to build in lane, and functions super well in a late game build, exists, then why should tanks feel safe to lane against it?

RalanrJun 16, 20175 votes

They haven't removed Ohmwrecker because it was a charity item if I recall.

And tanks are not supposed to feel safe in a lane against BC. Tanks are not supposed to have incredibly safe lanes, nor incredibly weak lanes. Just strong enough to actually interact without being forced to farm under tower before their first items.

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 18, 20172 votes

You are partly right! History Lesson!

"Ohmwrecker is named after a League of Legends player, Ohmwrecker (aka the Masked Gamer), as a reward for gaining over 1000 referrals. Up until it closed in June 2012, Ohmwrecker served as the Editor-in-Chief of Voodoo Extreme, a popular gaming site that covered League of Legends extensively when most other sites disregarded it as an insignificant free-to-play game.

Ohmwrecker (the Masked Gamer) was also recognized as a winner in the "Minnows to Sharks" program that Riot ran shortly after League of Legends launched. He provided consultation to Riot's executive management that helped lead to the Summoner Showcase and Tribunal. He also served for a short time as an original Test Realm tester. Ohmwrecker now focuses on building his Youtube channel as a partner of the Polaris Network, formerly known as The Game Station."

Basically the item was made as a tribute to a player who was incredibly impactful to leagues development ^ ^

kasfasJun 16, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rA0LEmKR,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-16T14:00:48.890+0000)

No, tanks shouldn't be able to split push at all.

Tanks do not belong in top lane.

They should only be junglers and supports.

https://sw250.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/oh_91c31ca529dd56608000fc4353e20f98.gif

AirKingNeoJun 16, 20173 votes

Tanks aren't supposed to have late games.

RalanrJun 16, 20175 votes

Yet ADCs can have early games, mid games (only if they get going from their early, which anyone worth their salt can), and late games.

Yes I'm annoyed by that. No I still think that tanks should fall off late.

AirKingNeoJun 16, 20171 votes

The ideal game would be to have ADCs a bit more balanced. Maybe a bit more late-game into some tanks, but I think a rework of ADC's items would already fix that.

RalanrJun 16, 20174 votes

But how can we have that when lane bully ADCs exist that don't fall off except to other ADCs?

AirKingNeoJun 16, 20172 votes

Remove critical strike and replace it with a different stat. Something like %HP damage that scales with the opponent's health (doesn't count as an onhit effect for Hurricane/Phantom Hit, Hurricane bolts deal 40% of the effect's damage). Obviously it would require a lot of number tunning.

DragonSheaJun 16, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Go full ham and increase it to 3300 gold, build path + 1000 gold, 500 HP, 60 armour, same passives+active.

Give tanks a big item they can itemise for if they snowball and a true lategame item.

Why not. Make Randuins the item that is gonna curb hyper carries and put them in their place late game.

rtbf76109271Jun 16, 20172 votes

um adc's "place" late game is to kill tanks and melt everything. If tanks scaled as well as ADC's late game, that would be VERY bad for game health. There would be team comps with 3 tanks against other teams with 3 tanks. No one can kill each other and no one can kill towers fast enough to do something even if they did kill each other.

For example, you kill 3 members of the other team after a 2 minute long fight. You then try to kill baron but cant dps it down in time before the enemy team respawns and you wet noodle again

ADC's scale better than tanks for really good reasons.. and part of this is having low gold items which are weaker per item slot at full build

LordGeovanniJun 16, 20173 votes

Adcs place is to kill tanks but not like they currently do . Adcs are supposed to beat tanks by having their team keep said tank off of the adc and the adc do constant damage over some time. Currently adcs kill tanks with or without help 80%Of their hp by time they walk to the adc often while killing other things thanks to crit I.E. and Hurricane.

Bronze GOATJun 17, 20171 votes

Banshees Veil probably has the worst build path in the game, but you don't see mages complaining.

SloaneWolfJun 16, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rA0LEmKR,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-16T08:50:09.458+0000)

Increase the health to 400 from 350

Make it build out of Giants belt instead of 2 ruby crystals

This is not going to break the game but it is going to make Omen have a more user friendly build path.

Bu-but this would be a buff to BotRK! http://imgur.com/2L5tmxq

Irelia BotJun 16, 20177 votes

That is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

AhristocatsJun 16, 20174 votes

400 instead of 350?

wtf are u going to do with 400 hp

Irelia BotJun 16, 201769 votes

Build Giants belt instead of 2 ruby crystals

DragonSheaJun 16, 201717 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rA0LEmKR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-16T13:17:55.237+0000)

400 instead of 350?

wtf are u going to do with 400 hp

Dafuq?!

EnrovyJun 17, 20172 votes

I think it was meant to be a joke

Altonius AmakiirJun 16, 20171 votes

That would make it too expensive for a situational item.

Baron of BreadJun 16, 20178 votes

Situational my butt. How many games do we see that don't have at least one crit based (or on-hit, Randuin's has that AS slow) carry on the enemy team? I have seen one in the last 3 weeks. Randuin's is a necessary item to build once late-mid game rolls around and will continue to be that way as long as traditional ADCs are part of the metagame.

Altonius AmakiirJun 16, 20171 votes

It is situational, one crit based adc is not enough to warrant building it. Its base stats are lower than other health-armor items so it makes you weaker against AP damage and non-crit/attack speed based AD damage as well due to lower health. On top of that the other two at least give some bonus damage. You would really only want to buy it if there are at least two crit based enemies or two attack speed enemies with at least one depending on crit. It's not something you would want to buy if they had a 2 AD fighters(like riven and darius) and an adc, the damage mitigated by Randuin's abilities would be less on average during the game than if you had one of the others instead. You also wouldn't want it if the enemy team were 3/5 magic or more either because you would have itemized too much for AD.

Baron of BreadJun 16, 20173 votes

The other options are Sunfire Cape and Deadman's Plate, both of which have 425 health and the same amount of armor. This is 75 more health than Randuin's, which is nice, but reducing the damage you are taking from an ADC by 15% (15% reduced attack speed on hitting the wearer) is almost certainly stronger. ADCs these days can get 70-80% crit reliably in the late game, so reducing crit damage by 20% is over 15% damage reduction against ADCs. If you want armor and the enemy has an ADC, Randuin's is one of the best options since reducing their damage to you by approximately 30% before factoring in armor is amazing.

The active slow component is also strong as it provides an effective peel tool as well as making for a pseudo-engage if need be. In lane, yeah I might pick up a Sunfire or a Deadman's instead against the likes of Riven and Darius, but by late game I am fish food for the ADC without a Randuins.

If the enemy is almost all magic damage then I would have to consider it and who the enemies are. I might skip out on it if I am laning against an AD champ and need the early armor item for them, but if not then Randuin's is going to be the armor item i pick up rolling into mid game since it is likely that the only AD source on their team is the ADC and there is no better choice than Randuin's to mitigate their damage. Even then, I will likely only have two MR items since straight health with a bit of MR is often good enough to hold off AP champs. That leaves room for two armor items and a Gargoyle Stoneplate or Warmog's with boots by end game.

The other armor items just don't hold a candle to Randuin's in terms of tanking ADCs, and that is what you need to be able to survive when teamfights roll around.