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The battle of Assassins and Tanks

MrSlowDie·Nov 9, 2014·5 votes·2,504 views

Tank is the opposite of assassin, assassin's job is to kill the most valued target, as fast as possible, while tank's job is to suck damages from the most valued target, as much as possible. if X team has no tank but has one assassin vs Y team which has no assassin but has one tank, Y assassin will jump in the X ADC and mage, while X tank will rush to Y ADC and mage, peel, tanking, and zone them with its body.

in the theory, this should create balance, but in the reality

assassin considered as OP by community

Assassin rarely talk about

Tank considered as OP by community

Tank rarely talk about

"but muh assassin/tank not on the list" they are somewhere in between,

so why the hell?? Tanks and assassins are in the same way, but in different direction. So the only possible answer is the power differences between tanks and assassins. Let me put an example of this

Assassin fed, "GG they even melt tanks" Tank fed, "Don't focus tank"

Countering assassin "learn to CC" Countering tank "kite, CC, items that melt tanks"

Laning vs assassin "don't get them fed, ever" Laning vs tank "dun worry, let's bully them with ranged"

Assassin get penta "GG gj nc let's push win" Tank tanking 5 man "lol enemy team bad, focusing tank"

but why are considered as OP ?? well that's because they offer a lot for their team, and have less counterplay, ali can bring squishy to their team, great diving ability, rammus can "silence" enemy mage and ADC, has insane ms boost to fight kiting, and maokai literally suck damage

21 Comments

67chromeNov 9, 20148 votes

assassin's job is to kill the most valued target, as fast as possible, while tank's job is to suck damages from the most valued target, as much as possible.

That's not what a tank's job is.

The primary focus of a tank is to initiate fights and lock down priority targets. They can also counter-initiate and protect their own priority targets should the situation call for it, though ranged supports tend to be more geared to that play pattern where tanks are more offensive CC.

But taking damage isn't your job as a tank in LoL. Being able to tank damage is more a means to survive long enough to do your job, otherwise it's something you only do specifically when an ally would be getting hit instead, and taking that damage instead will serve your team.

Focusing on tanking damage will lead to a tank dying without doing anything. You have to use that bulk tactically and force catch-22 situations for your opponent like "should I attack the tank while his marksman buddy is turning my liver into swiss cheese?" You have to give a trade-off for being focused and taking damage, because at the end of the day taking damage still sucks if you're a tank, and you still die if you take to much.

Kuroi86Nov 9, 20144 votes

Actually, the job of the tank is multifold. They can act as either the initiation for their team, or they can act as peel.

Consider the dynamic if you have a Nautilus jungle and Leona support. Nautilus will dive the team all day and all night, setting up for the top lane and mid lane to dive right in. The enemy mid lane will try to flank and go after the ADC who is focusing the nearest target, the enemy tank. Enemy mid land jumps ADC, Leona jumps enemy mid lane and peels for ADC, locking up the enemy mid long enough for their combined assault to wipe out the enemy mid while still leaving Leona with enough CC to help out in the team fight as a whole.

Sire HippingtonNov 9, 20142 votes

actually leona got the better kit to dive the backline than nauti, as her E passes through units and her ult got more range, so she can more easily lock down the backline....

Kuroi86Nov 9, 20142 votes

Both are well capable. Leona has a little more peeling potential than Naut while still having a little CC to drop into the team fight. Both are good at what they do, which is bring a ton of CC to a fight.

NarasimhaNov 9, 20141 votes

On the other hand, Naut's ult not only hits the backline but knocks up everything in between. So it not only becomes a free pass for Naut, but gives the rest of his team more time to do their own thing.

MrSlowDieNov 9, 20141 votes

assassin's job is to kill the most valued target, as fast as possible, while tank's job is to suck damages from the most valued target, as much as possible.

That's not what a tank's job is.

The primary focus of a tank is to initiate fights and lock down priority targets. They can also counter-initiate and protect their own priority targets should the situation call for it, though ranged supports tend to be more geared to that play pattern where tanks are more offensive CC.

But taking damage isn't your job as a tank in LoL. Being able to tank damage is more a means to survive long enough to do your job, otherwise it's something you only do specifically when an ally would be getting hit instead, and taking that damage instead will serve your team.

Focusing on tanking damage will lead to a tank dying without doing anything. You have to use that bulk tactically and force catch-22 situations for your opponent like "should I attack the tank while his marksman buddy is turning my liver into swiss cheese?" You have to give a trade-off for being focused and taking damage, because at the end of the day taking damage still sucks if you're a tank, and you still die if you take to much.

yeah I am aware that tanks usually initiate, throw CC, deals AoE, counter initiate, dive, or run to the enemy team when they are chasing your low health ADC (to save him). But that's not why they call you tank, it's because.. you are like a brick. The other parts are just bonus strength and bonus job that come along with your tankiness.

So I think suck damage is the most appropriate word to define tanks

oh yeah, when I said bonus, it doesn't mean it's not important

NoMonkuNov 9, 20142 votes

A tanks role isn't to suck up damage, it is usually to innitiate a fight. It also has the ability, depending on their abilities, to protect and peel for their teammates. While it is true that they have to ability to soak up a lot of damage, as they themselves are tanky, it isn't their primary role compared to something like a MMORPG since the "boss" you're fighting isn't just going to focus the tank endlessly just because he has it aggroed or is the closest target available. They both function the way they are designed to do, the real difference is that it is easier for someone who is building damage to get ahead then someone who is just building to be bulkier. Even IF you get behind, the person with damage has the potential to kill someone who is squishy just because it is their "role" in the game to pop the person. If an assassin DOESN'T get the kill, which is something a lot of people never seem to talk about, they become INCREDIBLY useless as they can't really offer anything as they can't do the job they were supposed to do in the game. As for a tank, what they do is go in and innitiate, so unless they are SUPER for ahead or are catching out a priority target like the ADC or APC, then what they are doing isn't very flashy, which I think is your "real" issue with the difference between them.

Sire HippingtonNov 9, 20142 votes

considered OP is **not the same **as actually beeing OP.

Tanks require much more team coordination and are harder to learn( mindlessly pushing buttons rarly helps, the high cds mean u have to think then and where to use ur skills)

Assasins are rather easy to play vs uncoordinated enemys(most soloQ games) but they become rather difficult to play once ur enemys are coordinated, as there carrys won't be out of position so often, and the peeling will be more on point.

U also forgot one thing: Assasin falls behind, "GG, 4v5 for most off the game" Tank falls behind, "who fucking cares, lands the cc in the right situation and everything is fine"

Also, an Assasin is strong on capitalizing on mistakes, and lower elos+soloQ in generall got much more mistakes than high elo or premade 5v5.

A Tank is strong in forcing things even if there was no major mistake by the enemy team, and they often enough can disrupt enemys in a way that makes them commite mistakes

MrSlowDieNov 10, 20141 votes

considered OP is **not the same **as actually beeing OP.

Tanks require much more team coordination and are harder to learn( mindlessly pushing buttons rarly helps, the high cds mean u have to think then and where to use ur skills)

Assasins are rather easy to play vs uncoordinated enemys(most soloQ games) but they become rather difficult to play once ur enemys are coordinated, as there carrys won't be out of position so often, and the peeling will be more on point.

U also forgot one thing: Assasin falls behind, "GG, 4v5 for most off the game" Tank falls behind, "who fucking cares, lands the cc in the right situation and everything is fine"

Also, an Assasin is strong on capitalizing on mistakes, and lower elos+soloQ in generall got much more mistakes than high elo or premade 5v5.

A Tank is strong in forcing things even if there was no major mistake by the enemy team, and they often enough can disrupt enemys in a way that makes them commite mistakes

it's not exactly the same, but I am sure it's not exactly false too.

assassins have high damage kit to make them getting ahead, so they are more high risk high reward. And Everyone makes mistakes, even in world we saw a lot of assassins (and secondary assassin). Fizz, zed, yasuo, khazix, rengar, talon, trist, twitch, lee.

while tanks, only 4 as far as I can tell, we found lot of mundo (iirc 0% winrate), maokai, and permaban alistar. And for secondary braum.

fighter is dominating btw :/

CoolKnightSTNov 9, 20142 votes

Let's look add it again. What of these champions have a targeted gapcloser?:

()() Tanks with targeted gapclosers
()()()() Assassins with targeted gapclosers
()()()()() Fighters with targeted gapclosers
Champions with targeted gapclosers that are played less often

The limitation of the gapcloser can varry on a lot of ways:

can only use their targeted gapclosers to ally champions
can only use their targeted gapclosers to ally units
can only use their targeted gapclosers to enemy champions
can only use their targeted gapclosers to enemy units (not including enemy wards)
can use their targeted gapcloser to all units

Most player just hate targeted gapcloser since their is almost no counterplay against it ones their ahead. Things like a limitation is the only thing that keep these things in lane. Maokai & Alistar where a good example of this with champion that doesn't have this limitation. While Rammus is just rammus and is more of a meta pick anyway.

JunkοNov 9, 20141 votes

Counterplay to targeted gapclosers? Don't be dumb and walk as an ADC/APC in their very small range. (Excluding Noc, Rengar, Wukong and to some extent Zed who can have great range or you just can't see them coming)

AzlagorNov 9, 20142 votes

yep, rather don't attack with the main dps source of ur team, let ur self get zoned and hope ur team wins 4v5

most gapcloser have the same or more range than AAs. Vs assasins, staying somewhat back till ur team gets them locked down can work, but a Mao or Alistar ignores ur team as they are damn tanky unless the adc focuses on them.

Let's look add it again. What of these champions have a targeted gapcloser?

The problem is less the targeted gapcloser but what comes to follow it up. Most off the more popular champs with targeted gapclosers have a kit that allows them to more or less guranteed hit everything as soon as they close the gap.

JunkοNov 9, 20141 votes

If the fight is a 4v5, that means the assassin that is threatening to kill you is attacking somebody else, that means you can join the fight and attack safely.

The only champions that can hit everything as soon as they close the gap are Talon and Zed who burst really fast and it's almost impossible to react in time, others can be cc'ed and possibly killed right after

AzlagorNov 16, 20141 votes

Akalies Q+E+AA needs less than a sec, Mao roots u so he can easily land Q+E and if he wants to even detonate his R, (a good)Allistar will automatically hit u with his 2sec Q cc, Wukongs AA+Q+R needs about a sec, probably less, Katarinas Q+W+ atleast 1/3 of her ult will hit u if she jumps at u, Rengar will land Q+Q+W+E in a sec, or E+AA+Q+W+Q if he's smart and the list goes on...

And many assasins have not to much downtime on their combo without ult, and they can easily participate on the fight while holdinh their ult/gapcloser back till the zoned carry goes back into range. Not saying assasins are op, but as a carry u feel there is little u can do and thus u consider them op, cause u rely on ur team to keep u save from assasins(or u are ahead enough to survive the burst and totaly shred them afterwards)

JunkοNov 16, 20141 votes

Akali needs R to evne get close to an ADC Mao is not an assassin Alistar is not an assassin Wukong is not an assassin

AzlagorNov 16, 20141 votes

The subjekts of discussion were champions with targeted gapcloser, and my statement was that nearly all off those champions are able to savely land every skill in their kit once they closed the gap.

And many would argue that Wu is indeed an assasin as he got stealth, gapcloser and high burst if built aggresive.

NarasimhaNov 9, 20142 votes

its not just between tanks and assassins, its a tri-balance between carries, assassins, and tanks.

Assassins have the burst to kill carries. Carries have the sustained damaged to wear down tanks. Tanks can not only survive assassins, but can keep them from doing their thing.

Do note I'm not saying that carries should focus the tanks, but rather than carries are actually the way to beat tanks.

MrSlowDieNov 10, 20141 votes

its not just between tanks and assassins, its a tri-balance between carries, assassins, and tanks.

Assassins have the burst to kill carries. Carries have the sustained damaged to wear down tanks. Tanks can not only survive assassins, but can keep them from doing their thing.

Do note I'm not saying that carries should focus the tanks, but rather than carries are actually the way to beat tanks.

yes there are carries, support, and fighter, but I am focusing on Assassin vs Tank, why ??

carries (ADC, APC), well some AP assassin called APC too, so I won't use the term carries, don't call me hipster, I am just throwing my eyes on how Riot classify champions

Mage (APC) vs marksman (ADC), Mage tend to be more useful in teamfight, while marksman eat turret, Mage is the opposite of marksman, but they are in pretty much same condition right now.

Supports no comment

Fighter dominating the game atm

Assassin Tank Assassin is more dominating than tank

JunkοNov 9, 20141 votes

A fed tank is WAY harder to deal with than a fed assassin, atleast in low ranked.

People will ALWAYS focus the tank, if the assassin is feed you can just save your spells to kill them on your own, if tank is feed your team will just use all their spells to damage him for 10% of their health while his team roflstomps you.

TheFallenShawNov 10, 20141 votes

The only reason people consider Ass class Op and it gets the most nerfs is bc they can Burst Damage to kill in under a second, sadly then riot nerfs them, and trys to still keep them in that class. the Classes go as followed

Ass = High Damage low Hp Carry = Medium damage, Medium Hp Tank = Low damage High Hp

But sadly people only complain about one of the 3 classes. When they should learn to CC or Send the tank to start the fright with them.

HayaishiNov 16, 20141 votes

Tanks do not counter assassins.

Bruisers do, shit like Renekton, Vi, Wukong are the ones meant to hunt down Assassins. In a perfect world Assassins shouldn't be able to handle a battle against Bruisers.

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