->Charm damage amp traded for raw dmg -->Landing charm isn't as important as it was before --->Charm missed? that's okay, you can still kite and poke with Q+W
->MS boost in Q -->R isn't the only way to escape --->Less chance to get raped/gangbanged in lane,
Conclusion : new ahri is safer
Edit : just checked this thread again, and whoops? 450K view? Do my eyes trick me or it's just board's bug ? and now it's 855K. I think it can't grow any bigger anymore
Pika3109 votes->Charm damage amp traded for raw dmg -->Landing charm isn't as important as it was before --->Charm missed? that's okay, you can still kite and poke with Q
In other words, she's easier to play. Noobs and crappy players can just spam auto-target damage with W and her easier-to-hit Q. While never needing her Charm, which actually required skill, experience and strategy to use.
Lower difficulty = higher win-rate
->MS boost in Q -->R isn't the only way to escape --->Less chance to get raped/gangbanged in lane,
So she's less punishing for making mistakes. Bad players will feed less than they would have before. Then they become a slightly lighter burden to their team and easier to carry. Admittedly, Ahri was always a safe pick for someone that actually knew how to play her properly, but now she's safe for noobs and skilless players too.
Less intentional feeding = higher win-rate
My final conclusion based on these 2 conclusions would be she's now a worse version of Xerath. Probably good for low-elo players that play on locked-camera and manual spell-cast.
missinggrave8 votesEDIT: Bias OP pls nerf. Okay, informed opinion has been formed. Thank you for the other people for correcting my mistake. Kinda got swept up in the, "WHERE IS MY ASSASSIN AHRI BB RITO PLS" threads and didn't actually take the time to form my own opinion (( even though I played her and should have known better )).
EDIT 2: I'm 87% certain no matter what I say people will hate it based on the downvotes that keep coming. But before this gets downvoted into not being seen; This is a buff. Not a big buff, but a buff nonetheless. To those who miss assassin Ahri, I miss her too, but that's not a reason to act as if this was a bad change for her. That's because it wasn't, and it gives people who are new to the champion an easier access to learning her. We should be happy that others can play our champions and enjoy their playstyle, not continually complain about it being awful even when it isn't justified complaining. I was even on your side for a time and see that it was the WRONG choice because after playing Ahri, you see that she isn't bad at all and is actually kinda fun to play with her speedier and harder to catch playstyle. You just need to learn to adapt, and sometimes that can take time to do.
Karn Bishop45 votesTechnically you aren't an original ahri main then since this ahri functionally acts like original ahri, personally i think it feels better and allows the champion to be balanced better as a whole.
Chessburger21 votesIndeed. I don't understand why people are so salty about this. This is closer to the original ahri minus some damage and plus a speed boost on Q cast.
I don't care if they nerf her into the ground this is a lot more fun to play than the binary assassin style with all the damage tied to her E and hoping you can 100-0 before E runs out. It's not about "I have skill to hit E", it's not hard to hit, it never was hard to hit it's just that now you actually have to make a decision when you want to hit the E. And the answer to that riddle isn't "always start with E or you hit like a wet noodle." That opens up options on the player's end, that opens up so many possibilities, and is the opposite of the binary style I mentioned.
Or maybe I'm just reliving the fun times in s2, who knows... I just don't get why people are this flipping salty.
Ariel the Cruel18 votesI agree. I stopped playing her after she was nerfed to revolve around DFG and her charm. Now that she's back to being mage Ahri, I'll probably pick her up again.
As for salty: It's ironic.
People flipped sh+t when they nerfed her ability damage and gave her charm a damage amp. Now they're flipping sh+t because they're taking the damage amp off her charm and increasing her ability damage.
Sometimes, you just have to laugh.
Eiskalt791 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1tivqLnQ,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-01T04:06:16.156+0000)
I agree. I stopped playing her after she was nerfed to revolve around DFG and her charm. Now that she's back to being mage Ahri, I'll probably pick her up again.
As for salty: It's ironic.
People flipped sh+t when they nerfed her ability damage and gave her charm a damage amp. Now they're flipping sh+t because they're taking the damage amp off her charm and increasing her ability damage.
Sometimes, you just have to laugh.
It just feels like Riot can't make up their mind. Mage Ahri was a problem so they made her more dependent on her charm. Then assassin Ahri is a problem so they revert her back to mage Ahri.
Daedalus8712 votesI want to point out that mage Ahri was never a problem. Ahri was made charm dependent because "she could DFG-W-R-R-R ignite and get a kill without landing any skillshots".
The problem has always been assassin Ahri.
Narasimha1 votesActually, mage ahri used to be a problem. W + R meant she could kite around team fights while still throwing out guaranteed damage, while Q meant she could hit multiple targets with true damage. Actually, I'd like to rephrase. It wasn't a problem, it was just extremely aggravating.
TaylorGaylor9 votesI love the new Ahri now. I love everything about her. She's more fun to play and I feel like she's more suited to this playstyle rather than the burst-assassin playstyle she was before. I love being able to play it safe.
Mat7itan8 votesNew Ahri is safer... not as bursty but safer.
MrSlowDie15 votesyeah not as bursty, but new ahri isn't punishing you hard for making mistake, while one mistake may cost you a game when playing old ahri
AetherKingdom4 votes"one mistake" more like 3.
EnvyDragon2 votesStep 1: Charm Step 2: Everything else while they're charmed
So unless you consider "taking a skillshot to the face" to be three mistakes, I disagree with you.
AetherKingdom1 votesAh, I misread. I thought you meant playing as Ahri
Ariel the Cruel9 votesDefine "old" ahri.
I happen to remember a time when the community was waving pitch forks because Riot decided to put a damage amp on her charm, but nerf her damage everywhere else.
SecretAgentHulk5 votesPretty sure you know which version of Ahri he's talking about...
5G8Nri0B541 votesWait, when you mean old Ahri, do you mean the predecessor of the current Ahri who assassinates targets...or Ahri the current Ahri is modeled after, as in release Ahri?
For all I care, this is not a rework, this is nothing more than an attempt at reverting the shitty rework they did back in S3.
Sailor Mint3 votesYou can fish for Qs with little to no risk of taking damage.
Gank in Progress2 votesNew Ahri is safer... not as bursty but safer.
shes more noob friendly. you dont have to miss any skillshot just press R W RR to kill someone
Zmuecat8 votesThat, and probably people aren't adapting to the change very well. It's been, what, less than a week?
I know a few people who have played a handful of games against her, and even knowing of the speed boost, still aren't ready for it at first.
hashinshin10 votesThis is gold.
Changes are good: People just havn't adapted to playing against them yet.
Changes are bad: People just havn't adapted to playing with them yet.
Auryiel1 votesStill better than pretty much every one of your cry-baby posts
Linna Excel2 votesThis is gold.
Changes are good: People just havn't adapted to playing against them yet.
Changes are bad: People just havn't adapted to playing with them yet.
QFT. Still if you aren't reading patch notes and you aren't playing ahri and notice that she lost DFG, damage amp, and got a MS boost, you probably aren't prepared for a safer ahri. She's still squishy so if you CC her after her orb returns, she should still blow up easily enough. Just don't throw out skill shots while her orb is out and you'll be fine.
Thryale2 votesPsst, yer talking to hashinshin. this is the guy that openly debates with morello, yer wasting your time. XD Besides, he's been playing this game for ages, and reads all the patch notes, he knows what he's talking about.
AetherKingdom2 votesd legend himself
SleepyLionCub8 votesExactly.
She is a mage, not an assassin. Aka less risk.
A Slime Appears7 votesYeah, even though I'd give up a lot of AoE damage by asking for it, I'd rather they give her back her assassin play style. They'll knee jerk nerf Ahri because of her winrate and she'll probably end up sucking. I don't trust Riot to be intelligent about it.
Keevalroy6 votesRemove the risk and the skill factor by making her a brainless spammer. Good work.
Riftic8 votesRiot's truly on the ball with these reworks. First Cassiopeia's resounding success, and now Ahri's. I can't wait for the next one.
Ariel the Cruel4 votes... First Cassiopeia's resounding success, ...
And to be fair, Ahri was originally like this (minus the move speed steroid). The charm assassin play style was the rework.
Riftic7 votesWell, sure. She was originally similar to what we have now, but that doesn't mean it's not a step backwards. Her charm amp was the best thing that ever happened to her. It created numerous scenarios that are positive from a game design perspective such as: counterplay, reward for playing well, and windows of vulnerability.
This mini-rework just removed much of all of those - Ahri has much less counterplay, much less reward for playing well, and much smaller windows of vulnerability.
It's absolutely a step backwards, and the fact that it comes at the cost of the complete removal of Assassin Ahri just adds salt to the wound.
5G8Nri0B541 votesActually most Cassiopeia would LOVE to have what happened to Ahri to happen to Cass. As Ahri didn't just get reworked, she was changed back to something closer to what she was pre-rework.
As far as state changes go, with Cassiopeia, she went from an A to a B.
Whereas Ahri went from an A to a B and back to an A again...albeit with slight differences.
And in fact, this may be exactly what Cassiopeia needs. Stashu hated Cassiopeia's "A"-state, but the controversy lies with how much most Cassiopeia fans liked her "A"-state and hated her current "B" state. The solution thus, is to do what they did to Ahri. Revert her to an to a state similar to pre-rework, but slightly different (for instance keep the QoL fix)
Ariel the Cruel1 votesI don't see this happening.
Cass was reworked because Riot considered her old kit toxic. They have no incentive to revert.
Ahri on the other hand, was reworked because of her ability to abuse DFG. With the item gone, they have no reason to force her into that specific play pattern.
PoE00dpWDk4 votesMaybe I don't really understand how Ahri works and is played, but here is my take on her adjustments. DFG got removed and Ahri needed some work done to compensate for this lose of burst damage. Her charm was the main source of how Ahri works as an assassin and in a very simple form Ahri assassinates by charming her targets to lock the enemy up and doing damage though abilities and auto. So if her assassin burst needed to be buffed why not just raise her charm damage amp or make it scale up so her early game power is not to crazy, and Ahri would still play the same. Instead she got damage moved around her amp was killed and she got more utility though movement speed on her Q. Now none of her assassin burst is contingent on her charm and it is only needed to lock her target up but not needed to do any damage. So before if Ahri needed to kill you a lot of her damage was tied up and landing her charm, the other side is if you don't want Ahri to kill you dodging the charm was really important. Now even if you dodged her charm she can still get to you through R and Q and do her "full" burst, so she has become more reliable and less interactive based on what her opponent does. If Riot really wanted to buff her based off of DFG removal there are a lot more simpler ways to go about it, then doing this relative massive change to her whole kit identity. I could easily see this level of changes being made on any other patch with the reasons being we did not like the way Ahri was played before so we decide to changed her. Even that logic seems flawed since they just pushed fizz into a similar postion with him getting a damage amp on his R. I am honesty just confused over Ahri's changes at this point and their reasons behind it does not seem to match up.
Pika3101 votesNow even if you dodged her charm she can still get to you through R and Q and do her "full" burst,
Except they did not increase the base or scaling on either of those abilities.
TotalJerk3 votesYou guys are so bipolar. I commented on the fact that the changes weren't a huge nerf, and I got downvoted to oblivion, now the boards are full of people shouting that she's OP.
Chessburger1 votesYeah I commented something similair to a Pika310 thread which stated her damage was lowered by 44% and is gutted. in this thread we can see him saying that she's op now because they made her easier to play (somehow).
Ariel the Cruel1 votesshe's easier to play because you're entire kit doesn't revolve around landing 1 skill. Making every use of that skill a guaranteed kill or whiff.
... Wait. that didn't come out quite right...
Chessburger1 votesI don't know if it's sarcasm or not, hard to discern through text. But what you described is the binary style I and many others hated about the charm amplification implementation.
On that note, what other champion solely relies on 1 narrow skill-shot to do meaningful damage?
Ahri was changed along the lines of what this hypothetical xerath change would do: reduced damage on all your skills by 20%, if you hit E you do 20% more damage for 4 seconds. Would xerath be picked again if you had to start with E every time you wanted to do meaningful damage? Probably not. The ahri thing only worked because you could E and all in 100-0 with dfg. And that was pretty much the only playstyle. Very limited variety of choices for the player playing her had to make and the player against her had to make.
Matezoide2 votesPlease tell me you people arent defending her.
57% Winrate with a 25% Pickrate on the very first day lel
Klatn Yelox2 votesOf course tons of people pick her on the first day, they wanted to try her out. And the winrate is because now every skillshot matters, as oppose to just one, and the enemy teams weren't use to that from ahri yet. These stats mean nothing yet, just like starting MMR levels won't reflect your true MMR at all. Let it stew for a bit, and come back to it when the numbers normalize. If they are still too high, THEN look at what is wrong.
Pika3102 votes"Every" skillshot? She only has 2. Charm doesn't matter anymore and Orb had no change to neither its base nor scaling.
Chessburger1 votesHow does charm not matter? How would a ranged taunt style CC that also does damage not matter?
LordVeral1 voteshttp://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1712246521/43634787?tab=overview
Second game i played as Tristana and there was an Ahri that got fed real hard and she almost won the game for her team....shes still scary as fuuck
The Lexer10 votesYes. That is what happens when you feed.