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@Meddler: Since Lux is finally getting a new skin, how about some QoL buffs to go with it?

darkdill··80 votes·3,934 views

There's two things about Lux that have continually bugged me.

  1. Lux receives her first application of her shield at the end of the channel animation of Prismatic Barrier, a small but noticeable delay that has frequently gotten me (and I'm sure many others) killed when someone like Janna, Lulu or Karma would've gotten that shield instantly and survived. Very frustrating, so I think Lux should get the first part of her shield at the start of the channel animation, not at the end. It's about a 0.1-0.15 second difference, but anybody would tell you that can be HUGE.

  2. Lux's E, unlike Gragas' Q and Ziggs' W, cannot be set to pre-detonate. Gragas and Ziggs can hit their respective hotkeys while their Barrel/Satchel are in flight and they'll detonate the second they reach their destination. Lux, however, must wait until Lucent Singularity's arrival before she can give a detonation command. Couple that with reaction times and latency, and Lux generally has to wait for 0.1-0.2 seconds after her E's arrival before she can detonate it. This can let TONS OF DAMAGE slip away when an enemy barely steps out of it or Flashes out. Please give Lux the ability to pre-detonate her E like Gragas and Ziggs can for their Q and W, respectively.

Otherwise, Lux is in good shape. Please, Meddler?

78 Comments

MrBuffington19 votes

Reducing some of her mana costs would be nice too, especially on E

Darkwind5 votes

I'd be very careful of this. If her E were even 100, she'd be DAMN strong. Decrease it by 10 to 120? i could be talked into that being a good change. Much more than that... she'd have to be nerfed right afterwards.

darkdill4 votes

I'd decrease it to 70/80/90/100/110 from 70/85/100/115/130.

iamthegoatofwar2 votes

shakes head no i wouldn't...

AbyssionKnight1 votes

Her E has really high damage (pre 11 you're almost doing as much as your ult) and its spammable. It's able to be that way because its cost is so high. Reducing the cost would almost certainly mean reducing the damage as well.

MrBuffington2 votes

It's far less spammable than Ziggs Q (which is significantly cheaper) or Xerath Q (more expensive early and cheaper later, but he has mana regen on his passive), and the damage is actually less than either of those spells, especially early.

Helmight1 votes

Lux's E also has more utility than either of the other two spells though. It reveals the area it lands in and sets up a slow field, making it more useful for kiting and zoning. The high damage is one of the reasons her E costs so much, but the utility it brings is the main reason that Lucent Singularity costs more than Ziggs Q and Xerath Q.

MrBuffington1 votes

In a way it's comparable to Zigg's E, but Ziggs has more tools to clear waves outside of his E, which makes Lux pretty lackluster in comparison. She can't really clear waves with her Q since it only hits two units (and the second unit only takes half damage) and it's also costly, and has a pretty long cooldown. She can ult the wave (and often does since she doesn't really have many options), but it's pretty bad if you have to use your ult to clear waves all the time. Lux has a pretty cool niche, where she's the support version of Ziggs (who's more control mage) or Xerath (who's more flat offensive), but her waveclear ability is worse, so even in situations where you might want a more supportive mid laner, you probably opt for Xerath or Ziggs anyways because Lux just doesn't function well enough in that role.

Darkwind1 votes

Assuming you hit 40% cdr (I've been messing around with cdr/lvl glyphs lately to do so, but there are other options), you don't actually have too hard of a time, as long as you have time to set up before the wave arrives. You can E> let it nearly time out, hitting 4-5, then almost immediately E again, clearing the wave. In an emergency/if you dont have time to set up, you can of course ult- on a 30 second cooldown, meaning you can actually do it precisely every wave.

MrBuffington1 votes

The costs are still brutal for her early laning, and Ziggs and Xerath still do it significantly better. I'm not saying Lux is unplayable or anything, I'm just saying she has more trouble relative to her peers, and I don't think that's really justified.

Darkwind1 votes

Hm, I don't think that's particularly accurate, especially in reference to Xerath. Ziggs might be stronger- honestly, I've never been a Ziggs player and haven't seen many, so it could be true. But imo, Xerath is significantly weaker. Why?

-Xerath's poke is more difficult to land-at any time- than Lux's. This is synonymous with saying his damage is more difficult to land than Lux's.
-Lux's kill combo is MUCH more fluid than Xerath's. Xerath's combo of E>W>Q>r/ignite is not reliable. E stuns longer the farther away you are- but it takes you longer to charge the Q the farther away you are. So no matter how you do it, that combo of damage is not guaranteed, whereas Lux's Q>E>Auto>R>E>ignite combo is guaranteed, assuming the Q lands. -Lux can Q-flash. Xerath cannot E-Flash. That's very significant. -Lux has significantly more utility in teamfights. Her Q is multi-target (and much longer duration at short range), her E provides a slow, and her W is the strongest shield in the game for teamfights.

Therefore, overall Lux has better kill/catch potential, better safety in general, better peel, and marginally more reliable damage. That's not to say Xerath doesn't have his advantages- he does- but it is to say that these are two very different champions, and what Lux provides is more valuable to a team ATM.

Also... I honestly never feel these "brutal" early mana costs. Guess it's just because I main Anivia and know how to manage my mana really well but... I rarely have serious issues...

MrBuffington1 votes

I'm mostly just considering their waveclear ability and their role within a team as this sort of long range artillery-style mage. Xerath's poke is also on about a third the cooldown of Lux's.

Regarding Xerath's stun range and his Q, typically you don't need a fully charged Q to hit a stunned target; the farther away they are, the longer you have to charge, but also the longer the stun is, so it's basically even. In my experience, you can pretty much always hit your Q if you land your E.

Considering the length of his E stun, as well, and the way his cast animations work together (EWQ), his burst combo is actually pretty fluid. Additionally, his E projectile speed is notably faster than Lux Q, so much so that Lux usually channels her ult before her Q even hits, and, if it misses or is dodged, she's completely out of cooldowns. Xerath can pick his fights more carefully and be more conservative with his cooldowns because his stun is faster and is usually the first spell in his combo; for Lux she fires her E first.

His E cast is also pretty short, so I don't think the difference between E-Flash and Flash-E is that significant, especially when considering the playerbase that really utilizes Flash mechanics, especially on Xerath, and the infrequency you're going to be doing this throughout a game. Flash mechanics are very important on champions like Vi or Lee Sin, but when you're a long range mage whose role is generally just laying down tons of AoE damage from range, you typically don't pull too many flash plays in a game. Don't get me wrong, it's a notable difference, but I don't think it's all too significant.

Lux has more utility, sure, but Xerath has more damage. It's a fair trade imo. It's not like Xerath is lacking in utility either, he still has a massive stun and slow on his W.

If you look all over the world, Xerath is favored at the professional level. I think I've seen Lux played maybe twice, ever, at the professional level, one of those times was because Xerath was already picked/banned (the other time was before the Xerath rework).

Admittedly "brutal" was hyperbole, but considering the role Lux seems to fill in a game, she does so with significantly more difficulty than Xerath or Ziggs in my experience. I generally don't have mana issues either (I play Morgana mid primarily); my argument here is just that, in my experience, Lux's lane phase is significantly more difficult than Xerath's or Ziggs, and unless she's actually meant to ult waves on cooldown and back to regain her mana, I don't think it's justified.

Nagirah8 votes

As a Lux main I honestly don't really want much changes other than things that reduce her clunkiness. Her balance is fine atm so no straight buffs please.

darkdill20 votes

That's what these are: they reduce clunkiness and reduce delay-based failures.

Nagirah5 votes

I was referring with buffs and changes to what others are talking about in this thread. Your suggestions are nice though.

GreenBae Packers1 votes

{quoted}

That's what these are: they reduce clunkiness and reduce delay-based failures.

1000% agree. I'm sure it would not take much time but would drastically improve her performance. Pretty please Riot, I'll give you a cookie :3 item 2009

manbearswine8 votes

Or we could just not qol buff her and actually buff her.

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DanofDemacia2 votes

Yes pls

Zeref7 votes

OP actually sounds pretty reasonable.

The comments in this thread, not so much.

Solidair35 votes

I think Lux's shield shouldn't even have a cast time, especially given its supportive nature and potential to save a life (not to mention you might die while you have to stand still to cast it)

As for her E, I wonder if the delay is intentional rather than an artifact of old champ design.

Given that it can hit in an AoE, through minions, at a very large range, I wonder if instant detonation would make it too reliable? Even as it is, when I play Lux I find it very easy to detonate on an enemy even when they start running before the Singularity arrives. This might be in part to the fact that the danger radius indicator is broken, so no one actually knows its actual range (which seems to be fixed with this incoming skin, so thanks for that, Riot). Additionally, I think its meant to be combo'd with her Q, which would solidify the need for a delay.

I guess we'll see what Riot does.

vIbvdOwbko4 votes

Also can you either lower Lux's E damage range to match her slow range or increase the slow range to match the damage range? Preferably the latter, seeing as Lux probably doesn't need any nerfs at the moment.

Because the range on the damage portion of her E is slightly larger than the slow so even if you aren't slowed you can still take damage if you are close enough.

SleepyLionCub1 votes

{quoted}

Also can you either lower Lux's E damage range to match her slow range or increase the slow range to match the damage range? Preferably the latter, seeing as Lux probably doesn't need any nerfs at the moment.

Because the range on the damage portion of her E is slightly larger than the slow so even if you aren't slowed you can still take damage if you are close enough.

What are you taking about? Her show and damage range are already the same

vIbvdOwbko6 votes

{quoted}

What are you taking about? Her show and damage range are already the same

They aren't. You can try testing it out in a custom with somebody else. There is a small area of damage but no slow at the very edge of the spell. Just walk out little by little until you're just out of the slow zone. You'll probably still take damage when it pops.

1000angrybees2 votes

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've played a bunch of games with ahri against lux, and I was seemingly out of its range while it detonated. I wasnt slowed but i received the damage.

Nagirah3 votes

Yes this is a common thing. Sometimes my enemies won't even realize the E will hit them, because they aren't slowed.

Hellpyre1 votes

IIRC, it's intentional because the slow takes a very short amount of time to wear off, and this way you can see a champion leaving the area and know that if the slow debuff is still on them, they'll take damage.

Rikari3 votes

I was thinking her passive doesn't fit her identity as a ranged mage,as she has to get into aa range to proc it

darkdill11 votes

Yeah, it could use some extra utility outside of just being an extra damage source. Ziggs' passive has the benefit of being strong against structures.

I'd like it if Lux's passive could reveal non-stealthed enemies that are affected.

IcyPepper3 votes

It's useful for support Lux, at least.

But ranged mages should be using their aa, rather than always relying on their spells. Lichbane is good on Lux, at least.

DanofDemacia2 votes

Yes she's the only long ranged mage that has to ?

viken2 votes

Xerath basically never runs out of mana if you use his passive on champions, but who's gonna let you do that? Zigg's passive also buffs his auto attacks Orianna's passive also buffs auto attacks It actually seems like ALL long range mages have empowered autos

DanofDemacia3 votes

Ziggs doesn't have to use it to do good damage his q is on such a low cd. Xerath doesn't have to use it for more damage but I helps for sustain orianna isn't a long range mage and doesn't have to use am ability to get the extra damage. I didn't say she was the only one with enhance aa I'm saying she's the only one who's damage potential is held back because of it.

IcyPepper3 votes

Never said that... I said ranged mages, plural. Leblanc, Ahri, Annie, all of 'em should be using their aa.

Not sure why I got a lot of downvotes. Lichbane Lux is good for support Lux (guess I should have clarified that one).

Eh, I shared my opinion. Nothing to be ashamed about.

DanofDemacia1 votes

{quoted}

Never said that... I said ranged mages, plural. Leblanc, Ahri, Annie, all of 'em should be using their aa.

Not sure why I got a lot of downvotes. Lichbane Lux is good for support Lux (guess I should have clarified that one).

Eh, I shared my opinion. Nothing to be ashamed about.

Ok dude listen the reason luxes scaling aren't high is because of her passive. Its holding her back from doing actual damage its impossible to proc it late game. Lux shoudlnt get in as range simple as that

IcyPepper1 votes

Doesn't her ult proc the passive?

DanofDemacia2 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't her ult proc the passive?

Yeah all her moves should be aloud to that's probably her quickest fix

AbyssionKnight2 votes

If that happened all her skills would have to be balanced around the passive damage as well. That would lead to damage reduction...which doesn't solve the problem. She'd end up in the situations, except suddenly her aa wouldn't be impactful.

Nagirah4 votes

Lichbane is a waste really. You are only using your autoattacks without too much risk early. Lategame your combo can oneshot squishies without even needing autoattacks. The money spent on lb is much better to be spent on just something useful with way more flat ap.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

It's also good if your team is weak on tower pushers, for instance if the ADC falls behind and top laner isn't so great at it.

Lucifer3 votes

I feel like she needs mana buffs too, honestly. She can have athenes + blue buff and still exhaust her mana pool incredibly quickly. I think the mana changes this season hit both her and Ziggs very hard.

Sirsir2 votes

Honestly would it be that bad to just let Lux E not have a cast time? Most immobile mages don't have to stop to cast their spells anymore, Lux has to stop to cast all of them.

j j2 votes

I'd want lower mana costs.

darkdill2 votes

A lot of us do, but I'm suggesting the QoL changes first because they are more likely to be accepted by Riot. Mana cost reductions could have some reason for being avoided.

The above QoL changes, however, should not have any GOOD reason for being refused.

j j1 votes

Yes, I agree the E proc is extremely annoying waiting for it to go especially when you land it right near or on the enemy. It does give them a lot of time to escape. Lux is a good lane bully when played right, so my fear is if they did allow it to happen right away how much more viable she would become. In combination with lower mana costs I could see there being a qq fest.

darkdill3 votes

Lux already has clear counters, though: assassins utterly destroy her, and her long cooldowns (even if she gets 40% CDR) mean she has large windows where she can be easily taken out. Her lack of mobility also means she can't escape easily if someone jumps on her.

Hard counters include: Katarina Zed Talon Kassadin Diana Rengar Leblanc Fizz

j j2 votes

Believe me I am aware of lux's problems and many mid counters to all laners. I already know these imba champions make mid a living hell for almost any immobile laner with projectile based skills. Or even just immobiles in general. I want them to put her in the right direction without completely gutting her. Buffs typically go one way with riot and those are usually nerfs in the long run. Which is why I don't like them touching champions I enjoy. Lux and Malz being up there as my favorites.

I agree she needs help in lane especially since she can't do shit to a good majority of mids currently. She will always struggle though as do most immobile mids due to the fact that the mobility and burst of these other champions has always been too good. I have complained time and time again about all of these mids you have listed. (besides katarina I don't think she is too crazy as the other ones in comparison she'd be on the lower end.) Diana also being lower but I used to complain about diana's durability she is just naturally tanky, which is what you would expect for a frontliner but in lane it is hard especially on a champion who does not sustain very well due to mana costs.

She needs help I hear you but I doubt the help we both are looking for will really solve the problems with her counters. Let's be honest . edit But I will say it could make the laning experience just a tad bit better.

Darkwind1 votes

Mmm, not all of those.

Kassadin Leblanc Fizz Those are definitely hard counters. The others vary: Katarina : Super hard to deal with, but you outrange her sufficiently that it's possible to win, depending on both teams. Your early game is better and your W can largely negate her ult late game. Zed : Definitely annoying, but you can win. Your first 5 levels are better as long as you play it well. You'll have to be VERY careful between 6 and your zhonya, but you outscale him, which means he's not a hard counter. W also works quite well on his R (the proc does not count any damage dealt against a shield toward its damage). Talon :The closest of these to a hard counter, but still not quite. Again your early lane phase is better, and your late game is also better. Again your W is highly effective- it can negate most to all of his damage in a teamfight. Diana :Insufficient assassination range. There's no reason you should need to be in Q range, which means you should have no problem surviving vs her in lane. As usual, you outperform in teamfights. Rengar :I don't consider it possible for a jungler to hard counter a mid laner. This one in particular is actually very easy to deal with in mid-late. AS soon as you see a red !, press W. When he leaps, just Q>E>auto>E>R>ignite and if he's built assassin, he'll instantly die. If he built tanky, he still will be forced to leave. assuming your team is around.

A hard counter, by definition, is a matchup in which the countered champion has either no windows of opportunity to capitalize on/win or such small windows that the countering champion would have to be played at an extremely low level for them to be exploited. The ones I listed don't match that definition.

darkdill1 votes

Katarina - Remember that Lux really has no answer for Death Lotus except to Flash out or use Zhonya's (which you probably won't rush). Also Katarina can dodge anything you throw at her, and she only needs to Shunpo-dodge one of your Q's to kill you once she has her ultimate.

Zed - Once Zed has some lifesteal and Death Mark, you can't poke him down; going into autoattack range to proc Illumination will result in you being ulted, and your damage will be insufficient to poke him down without passive procs. He has decent enough health regeneration and can dodge your attacks when needed, and because he's an Energy user, he'll outlast you in terms of resource. It's especially troublesome since you have to rush Seeker's Armguard against him, not a mana regeneration item, or he can just kill you with impunity.

Rengar - A full AD Rengar will pretty much ignore your shield and kill you with 2 Q's or, if you snare him, he'll just snare you with Empowered-E. If he wants you to die, you'll die.

Darkwind1 votes

Katarina Wait, we're using our Q before she uses shunpo, when she has access to her ult? Lolwhat, don't do that. Your answer to a Death Lotus is W+walk away, q if needed. Pre 11, unless you've already been poked down to 60% or less you'll be fine. Keep in mind that you should never, ever be in range for her to shunpo directly onto you, so all she has is Q+W+R+ignite. You'll likely only take 50% of the damage from the R since you're not in melee range of her to start with. Which means you get out with 15-20% hp most of the time. Worst case you get out with 5% and have to base, but then you just clear the wave with R before you leave.

Zed: Pre 6, proc passive away. Post 6 of course not. But you also don't have any need for a seekers rush. Mana regen is better. If you get seekers, you buy defense against the poke/all in. If you buy mana regen, you buy the ability to not be in range to be poked in the first place. Even when grail was exceptionally weak a couple patches back I would get Tear before seekers. Now, chalice-sorcs-seekers-grail->normal build. Why are you in range for his W-E or normal Q? You shouldn't be post 6. At that distance, you can easily avoid W-Q harass, and in order to ult you, he'd have to W first. He might even have to flash first. If he's silly enough to do that, just flash under your own tower during his ult animation, Q behind you as it ends, E-R-E-ignite-auto, rip. 2 tower shots (which are guaranteed- 2 second snare)- along with that will kill him every time until he gets hexdrinker... which he can't get early if he got lifesteal. And if he got hexdrinker, then you should have him poked to ~75% before he jumps in, shouldn't you? Yes, you should.

Rengar He's ignoring a 425 immediate, 850 total shield? No, he isn't. Also, he has to choose between an empowered E and using 2 qs- he can't do both. Furthermore, you have access to kiting in both E and Q and sufficient burst with qwr-ignite to burst him before his snare or yours wear off- giving you the advantage assuming you're both CC'd. Assuming you positioned correctly, you also have the advantage of having your teammembers near you, whereas the reng is all by himself. Finally, in worst-case scenario... item 3157 Ta-da, by the time you're out of that full AD rengar should be dead.

Again, hard-counter means there's no ability to do these things- no outscaling (or outscaling only in extremely late- in this cases they're outscaled by mid game), no early game opportunities to abuse, no ability to get decent farm without dying repeatedly.

Stark60002 votes

her mana costs need slightly reduced

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