The "Marksmen don't scale from levels" meme has been outdated and untrue for years

Khristophoros··5 votes·279 views

This idea comes from a time when the exp split in dual lanes was 50/50. However, It has been 60/60 for like 6 years or something. Before this, mid would hit level 6 when bot was level 4 so champions with powerful ults could easily roam and singlehandedly dominate as midgame starts. Now a mid roam is less oppressive.

If you look at levels in game you'll see that solo lanes are normally only 1 level ahead of bot lane and generally the ADC will catch up if they focus on farming. There isn't nearly as much of a difference in levels over the course of the game as people believe.

The biggest thing regarding levels about mid lane is hitting 6 one level sooner than bot, so champions with powerful ults benefit from that. However, some ADCs have a very powerful ult such as Ashe but we don't play her mid. So there is a lot more to it than how good you are upon hitting level 6. And of course, all of the things that make a good mid champ are known, but I'm going to skip over that stuff and talk about bot lane.

What really makes for a good bot lane carry is the ability to consistently farm the lane when there are two lane opponents. Two lane opponents means more harrass or kill pressure and there isn't a support that can negate that to allow for a melee champion to farm reliably. Of course in some matchups yes but you have to basically just outpick the fuck out of them in both your support and your carry. So usually you need a ranged autoattack to consistently get all the farm.

So the idea that melee carries or bruisers would need full exp to go bot lane is misguided. Hitting levels sooner would be a small advantage generally, but it depends on the champs you are playing. If you are playing a kill lane then it would be very helpful, but then you are more likely to be playing champs like Panth, Mages, Assassins, alongside supports like Leona, Blitz, Alistar. Or another way you can take advantage of hitting levels earlier is using a wombo combo of ults. But melee carries or bruisers generally would not get as much benefit in comparison to mages, assassins, and other aggressive early gamers or champs with big ults.

10 Comments

Eedat3 votes

Nobody has ever said they dont scale at all with levels. They just happen to scale the least because their damage is more heavily focused on AAs and much less on skills. The vast majority of their AA damage comes from gold (items) as opposed to levels. Sure they get a bit of AD and AS per level, but its pretty low when compared to classes like Juggies who gain much more per level. Other classes are much more on their skills which also are affected more by level than AAs are.

That being said, some ADCs rely more on their skills than others, but as a whole they are far less reliant than other classes.

Thats what people mean when they say ADCs scale less with levels

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

Nobody has ever said they dont scale at all with levels. They just happen to scale the least because their damage is more heavily focused on AAs and much less on skills. The vast majority of their AA damage comes from gold (items) as opposed to levels. Sure they get a bit of AD and AS per level, but its pretty low when compared to classes like Juggies who gain much more per level. Other classes are much more on their skills which also are affected more by level than AAs are.

That being said, some ADCs rely more on their skills than others, but as a whole they are far less reliant than other classes.

Thats what people mean when they say ADCs scale less with levels

Every champion scales with items more than levels, not just ADCs. ADCs might scale harder in terms of damage with items but nobody really scales with levels super hard anymore. Ability base damage has been nerfed across the board over the years. In the past it was common to get 50 base damage per ability rank. That's not very common anymore.

Eedat2 votes

I mean did you even read my post at all?

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

I mean did you even read my post at all?

Juggernaut AD per level is nothing compared to even the lowest HP and armor gains per level so if Juggs don't build offensive items they do no dmg too.

Mage and bruiser base dmgs have been nerfed.

Every champ gets their damage from gold.

Levels matter VERY MUCH for every champ because at the very least they get a lot of HP. Some ADCs still have good attack speed per level.

Salron3 votes

Mid still hits 6 when bot is still 4 what game are you playing I get ganked by level 6 mids when i'm at 4 all the time and vice versa

Khristophoros1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r3O0k6PX,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-21T04:52:07.098+0000)

Mid still hits 6 when bot is still 4 what game are you playing I get ganked by level 6 mids when i'm at 4 all the time and vice versa

No, bot lane is level 5.

PhDs Nuts1 votes

Holy... this thread is all over the place and doesn't end with an actual conclusion.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

Holy... this thread is all over the place and doesn't end with an actual conclusion.

The conclusion is that if you think "muh levels" will give bruisers a "muh fighting chance" you're wrong. It would just empower early game kill lanes.

Most of the post is to establish that level differences aren't really a thing anymore, outside of somebody being fed ofc.

Doozku1 votes

I've found that any botlane bruiser that you are going to pick is going to be a kill lane. You've basically given up a massive amount of late game damage and siege potential just for the potential to snowball the fuck out of the early game with strong all ins. Because of that, I'd say giving melees some extra xp to outlevel ranges in these matchups would be what pushes them over the edge of being able to win botlane.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

I've found that any botlane bruiser that you are going to pick is going to be a kill lane. You've basically given up a massive amount of late game damage and siege potential just for the potential to snowball the fuck out of the early game with strong all ins. Because of that, I'd say giving melees some extra xp to outlevel ranges in these matchups would be what pushes them over the edge of being able to win botlane.

Well that's kind of my point. You would see kill lanes. You would see just as many mages, assassins, and tanks as you would see bruisers.

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