AP Galio actually is insane. Don't try to defend it.

Khristophoros·Oct 25, 2017·83 votes·5,534 views

It's not just that guy who makes PBE montages. This happened in a game I was playing.

baron steal + triple kill https://youtu.be/hVZMXi1A7pk

Notice that he's actually invincible during his taunt, which he uses at two points during that clip. That's what happens when you have additive damage reduction. The EHP gain is exponential.

Galio is capable of reaching literally 100% damage reduction but even with like 80% or so it's already too much. Since when do AP nukers get an Alistar ult as a normal skill?

It would be safer to change the skill to armor/MR so that it gives linear EHP scaling.

Other than that, the damage is quite ridiculous. Here's the damage chart from that game: https://puu.sh/y6ByV/18119ba1f5.png

95 Comments

wyvern011976Oct 25, 201729 votes

Except he is literally made out of butter anytime his w is not available. Not to mention the other team you show had only an AP marksman (teemo) and two other AP champs (Fizz and AMU) vs a galio . A single ranged ADC would have just destroyed him. So no its not OP. IT's cute in a few random games but if the other team had had even a single piece of hard CC (other AMU's ult) and any AD it would have been a different story.

KhristophorosOct 25, 201723 votes

I think you're forgetting that most mages don't get a 2-4 second alistar ult on a 12 second cooldown. Other mages are ALWAYS made out of butter except when they're in stasis.

Even if they had more physical damage Galio would be able to have a huge amount of damage reduction against it as well, like 50% or more. That's stronger than most defensive abilities even though Riot is telling us it's not supposed to be good against physical damage.

Changing it to armor and MR instead of damage reduction would solve it.

Don't try to normalize this. It's way too strong.

ThefrostyvikingOct 25, 201721 votes

I am fairly sure those 3 at baron only took so insanely much damage because they had max stacked baron debuffs on them.

It's a aura debuff that reduces magic restistance and armor by everyone around by 50 when fully stacked.

And evidently Ammumu wasn't too tanky since he alredy took considerable damage from baron, while Galio was massively fed and ahead.

That Debuff exists exactly to make people trying to sneak a baron vulnerable......altho i still wonder why something that looked like a full tank voli died so fast.

I can only guess he didn't have so much MR.

HeimerLmaoOct 25, 20171 votes

I think baron debuff only reduces MR, but I agree with the rest.

ThefrostyvikingOct 25, 20174 votes

I actually did some math and altho i forgot the exact answer i came to realize that the potential max damage of Galio´s Q is nuts.

I also found a Video to prove it, even if the galio in question is hella fed.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrRWISURUI)

LordGeovanniOct 25, 20171 votes

It is to make up for it and everything else in his kit being super delayed and counterable and the fact that if a galio can go full ap the enemy team probaly isnt even trying to win.

ThefrostyvikingOct 25, 20173 votes

I mean, he kinda seems like a absolute monster lategame now, and with the possibility of him snowballing it kinda feels like GG if AP galio gets fed.

KuroCaliberOct 25, 20173 votes

Most mages also get to stay back and do their entire combos at range. Galio has to charge a team.

FairyfleurOct 26, 20172 votes

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Galio has his W so he doesn't get instantly blown up when he steps near your team

LordGeovanniOct 26, 20171 votes

W that scales off of how much defenses he builds where to do damage he has to forgo all defenses.

Votable JesterOct 26, 20171 votes

The damage reduction scales on AP now too.

Votable JesterOct 26, 20172 votes

Yeah but his Q alone is enough to chunk half a squishy's health.

LordGeovanniOct 26, 20171 votes

as it should be when squishies dont want to build hp or defense then want to tank everything some one else who is building damage but has less range is dishing out

Votable JesterOct 26, 20171 votes

Ok, it'll chunk a third of a tank's health.

LordGeovanniOct 26, 20171 votes

Thats Max health damage which needs to be lowered through out the game he isnt doing anything other people arent doing just that most melees arent allowed to have

Votable JesterOct 27, 20171 votes

What ranged champions have that degree of burst to both squishies and tanks? The closest I can think of are Kog'maw, Vayne, and Cassiopeia. Don't forget how much utility Galio has too. He has an aoe taunt + damage reduction, a dash knockup, and semiglobal mobility with ally protection and a massive aoe knockup.

You can't have that much utility, roaming ability, and burst.

LordGeovanniOct 27, 20171 votes

The burst that requires you to sit in the same place for 3 seconds

Votable JesterOct 27, 20171 votes

Actually a fairly large part of its damage is before the ticking (especially for squishies). He also has the cc to keep people in it for the entire duration.

Finally, it's 1.5 seconds, not 3 seconds. If you're in the center when it lands, you'll probably take 2 of the tics before you get out. If you're anywhere in it when it lands, you'll guaranteed take at least 1 tic.

LordGeovanniOct 28, 20171 votes

yet it flys out and comes back in where you have almost 2 seconds to dodge it everytime it is fired. what people are complaining about is large amounts of ap on a mage hurts champions that are supposed to be squishy and refuse to work defense into their kits.

FairyfleurOct 26, 20172 votes

Most mages are also ranged

JaspersOct 25, 201710 votes

The anti-mage is an anti-tank too then? (deletes the 4.5K HP Voli is 2.5 seconds. :P)

MhihnjOct 25, 20172 votes

anti-everything.

Spank the FoxOct 25, 20173 votes

Anti-life.

Encourages abortions, honors people for league for telling people to commit suicide, automatically make Zilean's ult instakill whoever he targets.

Galio is all that and more.

PoskeOct 25, 20179 votes

Armor and MR are in such a garbage state due to %Pen items Nowdays we need %Dmg reduction / Tricksters / invulnerability on every charcter which builds tanky to actually be tanky

Examples: Maokai W, Gragas W, Galio taunt, Shen Dash, Zac wait time for blobs to spawn, Hercarim W (Aka delayed dmg reduction which heals), Rengar W (See hecarim), Whatever Tahm kench shield is, Alistar R, Warwick Fear, Garen W (Kinda short)

Its either that or your champion can abuse stoneplate whcih is the %dmg reduction item (J4 shield,Cho gat Omnom)

Riot buffed Naut how many patches in a row? To bad they didnt slap that % dmg reduction Sejuani Had a massive stat gain in rework because she doesnt have % dmg reduction... somehow she became viable without it (Only exception)

what abour Rammus=? That thing is so overated and telegraphed, If his few first ganks fail he is worthless for the remaining of the game. Thats how it feels atleast

Tanks/tanky characters which dont have % dmg reduction except sejuani Are garbage tier, Also garen is garbage tier despite it... (To short for how little he offers)

To bad volibear has none of that so he ll actually never tank anything unless riot disables voidstaff and lastwhisper due to a bug or something

No worry Riot ll take care of it

Voidstaff % Pen is getting buffed boys by 5%

Keep in mind in video everyone was debuffed by baron. Not that it matters alot

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20178 votes

Oh hey, three champs, magic damage, that have high baron stacks take a lot of damage from an enemy that built full AP and is designed to be more resistant to magic damage.

Why not also show items and scores? That’s pretty important in these discussions.

And lets just ignore how much damage Galio did end up tanking from Fizz in the end as a magic damage champ. Physical damage would have eaten through him.

KhristophorosOct 25, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxxBFhdV,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-10-25T16:56:32.358+0000)

Oh hey, three champs, magic damage, that have high baron stacks take a lot of damage from an enemy that built full AP and is designed to be more resistant to magic damage.

Why not also show items and scores? That’s pretty important in these discussions.

And lets just ignore how much damage Galio did end up tanking from Fizz in the end as a magic damage champ. Physical damage would have eaten through him.

You can see how far ahead we were in the clip.

The only reason Galio took dmg from Fizz was because Fizz managed to last long enough to use an ability on him after his shield ended. This was after Galio already took 0 dmg from his ult, so Fizz had no other burst remaining to finish him anyway.

Galio still gets half of the damage reduction against physical, which in this case was 50% or higher, so I don't think he'd care that much about it unless they had a huge amount of it.

The damage chart at the end says it all. Galio just exists on a different level.

Jet SettOct 25, 20172 votes

We're gonna need more than one game of this, especially considering Galio is the only one on his team that even hard engages and stays in a fight. Galio's designed to go head first into a fight and the enemy team had 3 majorly AP champions. He not only will have the most time in fights, but is also the best fitted to BE in the fights.

Then there's the need for items, playstyles, and other context we didn't really get here outside of the numbers.

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You can see how far ahead we were in the clip.

No, we can’t. At least from what I could see (on mobile), Galio is 17, teemo and Amumu are 14, and Voli is..16? 18? We can’t see builds, we can’t see CS, and we can’t see individual KDAs, so we have no idea who has what. Galio seems fairly fed though compared to the others.

I also see several summoner’s and ults down for Teemo, Mumu, and Voli, so they were at a decent disadvantage in that fight to begin with.

The only reason Galio took dmg from Fizz was because Fizz managed to last long enough to use an ability on him after his shield ended. This was after Galio already took 0 dmg from his ult, so Fizz had no other burst remaining to finish him anyway.

You mean an AP assassin hit a champ that’s mainly an anti-AP tank when their defensive CDs were down and did damage but did little to none when they were up? Sounds like the way things are supposed to work with tanks and assassins (hint: tanks are supposed to resist assassin burst, and Galio doubly so since he’s anti-AP).

Galio still gets half of the damage reduction against physical, which in this case was 50% or higher, so I don't think he'd care that much about it unless they had a huge amount of it.

You realize that you cannot have more than 100% DR, right? So physical would not be more than 50%. He starts at 40% at max rank and it’s an additional 8% per 100 bonus MR, which you won’t get near 100% as a tank because you rarely get above 300 total MR, so that’s 16%, and we’re at 56% magic damage reduction.

From there, you would need straight AP at 5% per 100 AP. We’re missing 44% so we need almost 900 AP with only 4 item slots. Now, you could run full AP, at which point you need 1200 AP to hit 100% magic damage reduction, but you are only tanky in that window, as we saw.

Galio would’ve died if there was physical damage, or if Fizz played the fight differently, like not using his full burst when he saw Galio channelling W.

The damage chart at the end says it all. Galio just exists on a different level.

Perhaps it’s extreme, but we don’t see the full picture. No items, no stats, nothing.

blackrose78Oct 25, 201714 votes

thats a volibear with 4k hp that got 1 shotted in about .75 seconds. if youre defending this you have brain damage

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20175 votes

{quoted}

thats a volibear with 4k hp that got 1 shotted in about .75 seconds. if youre defending this you have brain damage

Dude, don’t exaggerate. It horribly weakens yout argument.

He took a full combo plus baron damage, and lasted 4 full seconds, even with full Baron debuff.

KyrsakuOct 25, 20179 votes

he only lasted 2s maybe you shouldn't exaggerate either

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

he only lasted 2s maybe you shouldn't exaggerate either

I was one second off, after rewatching, he took the first hit at 21 seconds and dropped at 24, so thrtee seconds. Still not .75s

KyrsakuOct 25, 20173 votes

he drops at 23 slow the video down, and I never said it was .75s, regardless its still a voli with over 4k health that is deleted.

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

he drops at 23 slow the video down, and I never said it was .75s, regardless its still a voli with over 4k health that is deleted.

You didn’t. The initial responder did. When I step through the clip, it’s right at the 24 mark.

He also got hit by a full AP Galio after taking a lot of baron stacks. Sure it may be high, but in isolation like that with no other details, the OP’s outcry seems a bit like an overreaction, while then claiming we don’t need to see items and what not, only the score at the top (apparently we should just ignore that Galio was a higher level than at least 2/3 of the baron takers, so Voli was the only challenge but we don’t know his build or anything)

KyrsakuOct 25, 20175 votes

a 4.5k hp voli should have been close to a full build if not at it, but ya sure deleting a tank is perfectly ok

Nik NikersonOct 25, 20176 votes

How am I supposed to take this seriously with that team comp?

Also, needs more context.

abca98Oct 25, 20176 votes

.............wtf happened to that Voli.

Sraeg2013Oct 25, 20173 votes

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mgc.gif

BobaFlautistOct 25, 20176 votes

Keep in mind that baron significantly reduces your resistances...

Zero Skill TankOct 25, 20175 votes

I just don't get why they didn't wait until preseason with that. It's clear that AP Galio needs hotfixing, but will Riot have resources to make a hotfix right now?

KhristophorosOct 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=dont stop Niisan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxxBFhdV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-25T10:07:54.297+0000)

I just don't get why they didn't wait until preseason with that. It's clear that AP Galio needs hotfixing, but will Riot have resources to make a hotfix right now?

He's not live yet. They can easily wait a little longer and tune him better.

TerozuOct 25, 20175 votes

Omg they had a comp he hard countered and didnt even try to counter build him! He's so broken...

Malicious MetalOct 25, 20174 votes

Ap Galio should be a viable, if not THE playstyle for him.

Power can be tuned, what annoys me is people thinking the general playstyle isn't appropriate for him.

RalanrOct 25, 201710 votes

I still don’t like the AP scaling on his taunt.

GaliöOct 25, 20173 votes

Lmao... wtf is that enemy team.

Krys StarOct 25, 20173 votes

The fact Xayah did the least amount of damage says a lot about this game, as well as the enemy's picks. One silly match can't be used as a definition for one champion's balance health.

jjcool99Oct 25, 20173 votes

for people defending galio

why pick Veigar when you can do the same amount of damage be tanker with better wave clear have 2 forms of cc and a free escape/ engage ulti that can used for roaming and as a bonus you should be able to ROFL stomp a Veigar or any squishy lane ask jungler to gank 2 free fed champions if he farms under tower you roam and snowball your team either way he was broken af and is even more so now that's why he is a must pick/ban in worlds. hes kind of like a stronger version of pre nerfed Ryze except instead of speed tanking you he just hard cc's you.

one piece of cc hits you your dead at least on lux she has to land her entire combo not one 6 sec cd + any cc you can't even rely on cleanse qs sash for stuff like this because the cd is so low.

pretty sure he can clear entire waves with 1 q and his passive so have fun with that.

hard cc + damage = broken champion ap gragas was broken syndra has been nerfed to hell and back and is still strong but atleast they need to use ultimates to delete people galio nah 6 sec cd.

KloqdqOct 25, 20172 votes

One aspect that does seem important to really figure in here is Galio while using W is slowed and cannot perform any other action. I do agree he will be really strong but I don't think he is going to be balls to the walls crazy. Hell that enemy team is so trash of a comp that I honestly don't believe they could win against you regardless. The damage reduction is scaling a little too high but this is day one PBE so it can still be changed.

KhristophorosOct 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

One aspect that does seem important to really figure in here is Galio while using W is slowed and cannot perform any other action. I do agree he will be really strong but I don't think he is going to be balls to the walls crazy. Hell that enemy team is so trash of a comp that I honestly don't believe they could win against you regardless. The damage reduction is scaling a little too high but this is day one PBE so it can still be changed.

He keeps the W damage reduction for 2 seconds if he cancels it and gets an additional 2 seconds if he hits the taunt.

"The damage reduction is scaling a little too high" A little, you say? A LITTLE? He's literally invincible.

KloqdqOct 25, 20174 votes