Games only go two ways nowadays

Your Next Kill·Mar 12, 2016·82 votes·4,291 views

When I sit down to play a game, I know that it's going to either be a complete stomp and the game will be over at 20 minutes, or it's going to be a knock-down drag-out for 45+ minutes. I don't know about you, but I don't really enjoy either of these types of games. I want something where my choices matter to a certain point, and it's still possible to play around mistakes. Instead, games are either basically a sandbox game (where you can do whatever you want because you're stomping really hard, or getting stomped really hard and there's nothing you can do), or an extremely tense game where every single click matters, and being a few pixels off could mean the game. I want the old ~30-minute games back, where decisions were much more diverse and there were multiple ways to finish off a game. Anyone else feel this way?

95 Comments

GrashnimMar 12, 201648 votes

I had a ton more fun in season 4 and season 5. This season 6 has been a nightmare.

Papa SlothyMar 12, 20168 votes

Once, I was in an hour long game that was a stomp because nobody on our team wanted to initiate for fear of losing the teamfight and then losing the game

that seems weird

VexingRavenMar 13, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Slothy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r0HigFzP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-12T23:45:48.291+0000)

Once, I was in an hour long game that was a stomp because nobody on our team wanted to initiate for fear of losing the teamfight and then losing the game

that seems weird

It certainly doesn't help that towers seem even more unthreatening this season than in season 5. Towers don't even really factor in to deciding to engage anymore unless it's a 5v5. I'm not expecting them to turn a 1v5 engage around but it would be nice if you had to at least think for a second before engaging 4v5 under tower.

High5Mar 14, 20161 votes

Towers aren't the game. I liked the tank meta, but the turtling last year was terrible. Towers are objectives and should be treated as such. Their not crutches for crappy players.

Papa SlothyMar 15, 20161 votes

they are meant to be zones of safety and they don't do their job very well

Arsenic SulfurMar 14, 20161 votes

Kinda like the weaker state...If only because of how many power-farmers we have in the game now. The tower would NEVER go down if, say, Ziggs was right next to it.

Your Next KillMar 13, 20169 votes

I agree completely. It's nowhere near as fun as it was.

Blue Moon WolfMar 13, 20162 votes

I enjoyed season 2-3 myself. Not everyone liked the tank meta, but it's the meta I learned the game in :L

High5Mar 14, 20161 votes

It's been different. I liked the tank meta too, but the AD champs are a lot of fun to play now that things have leveled out a bit.

December was a mess. Seems like most of the complaining now is from lazy people who can't adapt though.

PeachsPropertyMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I had a ton more fun in season 4 and season 5. This season 6 has been a nightmare.

fast forward to season 10: 5min matches. (3min tournament matches totally worth the price of admission! and super easy $) building armor damage you. mages are removed. ad champions whoever gets 1st hit in and isnt exhausted/hard CC'd wins the match.

AeszarckMar 12, 201629 votes

Either the Red team wins, or the Blue team does.

Jeddy017Mar 13, 20163 votes

Good old Red vs Blue action.

Darf RakkiMar 13, 20164 votes

As long as its not those Purple guys.

AwesomeChadMar 12, 201613 votes

Well unfortunately Riot changed the game (especially in the past year) to be more team oriented. Individual plays don't really do much anymore (unless you're playing insanely good and heavily outskill the enemy). I've been playing this game ever since 2011 so i can tell you from experience that I personally did not like how the game has shifted this much. In my diamond ranked games, it feels like I can't pick any champion i want because you can get boned in the game for not picking decent teamfight champs sometimes if you didn't snowball the game or the enemy didn't make huge mistakes. My individual plays are often limited as well since I play adc in a 2v2 lane that often gets camped. I definitely do NOT enjoy this version of league of legends.

Tobias BracknerMar 13, 20165 votes

They made a team game play like a team game. Start working with your team.

AwesomeChadMar 13, 20162 votes

You don't really understand the main point i'm getting at. I'm a solo que player in ranked. I win and improve through the process of maximizing my own performance and contributions in each game because I can only control what i do as player, not what my teammates do. When riot shifted more of the game's advantages towards things that require more teamwork, that heavily limits my ability to just snowball the game off of laning phase and try to 1v5 to carry. Teams now are more likely to camp bot very hard to accomplish two goals: 1. Shutdown 2 people in the duo lane. 2. Gain dragon control.

Tobias BracknerMar 14, 20162 votes

No I got your main point. You want to carry a game by yourself. You can't do that because it's a team game. It always has been and now even more so. Start working with your team.

nfzetaMar 13, 20163 votes

I think the real problem is that they made it more team focused during a heavy dmg meta. In this aspect your team play has to be REALLY on point, especially the higher up you go. Even when you get fed then group with your team to push the advantage their damage is still great enough to pop you if you make the smallest of mistakes and your team doesn't immediately respond. This also means that most of the snowball champs right now usually can't push the game forward on their own as even in this damage meta where you can kill someone fast the other team can kill you pretty much as fast so you the fed guy now has to rely on his team (even if they fed before) to initiate fights and pave the way for you to carry.

Which is probably why i find its actually easier to carry as support right now. Utility means A LOT more, since everyone has a lot of dmg its actually not as important right now unless the fed guy is a super tank.

Along with that the changes to vision (removal of green wards) and turrets also mean that split pushing is more team oriented, not to mention ZZrot

AwesomeChadMar 13, 20161 votes

Yep this is pretty on point with my experiences. Hard CC and good vision control is really important to win teamfights/get picks which may enable a weaker comp to beat a strong teamfight comp. Because of how the meta has changed towards heavy team oriented play, the meta for supports has drastically changed to tanky champions with alot of AoE CC. This doesn't mean you can't snowball and win the game with a sona support but if you were to 5v5 an enemy team with a braum/ali (assuming gold and levels are about the same) , you're more likely to lose the fight

High5Mar 14, 20161 votes

" I've been playing this game ever since 2011 "

Time investment makes you matter more?

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=awesomechad

Taking a break was probably a good idea.

AwesomeChadMar 14, 20162 votes

are you high? You completely missed the point. Time investment means i've experienced more of the game's changes overall so I can tell other people how the game has changed over the years. And you didn't even consider the idea that maybe i'm using a smurf to play ranked this season? You made a bunch of silly assumptions and you have nothing important to say except to try to "attack" me.

chide da junglerMar 12, 201612 votes

Games are so hard to carry now it is insane.

Tobias BracknerMar 13, 20164 votes

Work with your team.

chide da junglerMar 13, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r0HigFzP,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-13T11:52:11.012+0000)

Work with your team.

There is more to this game than 1 person trying. A lot of solo que games are 1 or 2 good ppl on a team and INSANE levels of feeding and trolling in the other positions. It's not like games can't be carried, but it's way harder this season.

Julius EvolaMar 13, 20161 votes

It's because the decision making skills have been less prioritized by riot. They've buffed all teamfighters. Supports 45% CDR (who's idea was that) and their heal/shield buffs coupled with an array of ADCs at every position. It just makes for mindless fighting. The supports want to surrender if the game goes past 20 minutes and the ADCs want to keep fighting and feeding in the hope that they can mechanically outplay the enemies. Even tho they have no idea how the enemy teamcomp works. There is no BALANCE in the gameplay. There is no decision making. We need to get out of this ADC + Support can play every role on the map. If a champ can be played at every role, you know it's broken. Otherwise, it would have specialization.

High5Mar 14, 20161 votes

Generalizations aren't solid foundations for good arguments.

Julius EvolaMar 16, 20161 votes

Not presenting an argument isn't a great foundation for a response on a forum.

High5Mar 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=chide da jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r0HigFzP,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-13T19:21:34.703+0000)

There is more to this game than 1 person trying. A lot of solo que games are 1 or 2 good ppl on a team and INSANE levels of feeding and trolling in the other positions. It's not like games can't be carried, but it's way harder this season.

This is true, but it's not any different than previous seasons. Arguing that it's more prevalent is trolling.

I hate trolling and feeding too, but Red just posted that dodges are the lowest ever. Afk's are inevitable. Either you deal with it or find another game to play.

FusarixMar 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=chide da jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r0HigFzP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-12T21:00:34.667+0000)

Games are so hard to carry now it is insane.

The game is much more team oriented and objective focused in the new season. Hense the introduction of dynamic que, so yes it is much more difficult to solo carry a game. Ill be it still possible, but its still difficult

GulmaMar 13, 201611 votes

there is 0 teamfighting now. It's all about skirmishes. games are so one sided I haven't seen a comeback in all my games. The winner is decided at 5 minutes - 14 minute. Either be stomped or stomp others. I think turrets really need to be brought back as of right now they are slightly stronger than a super minion. Being able to dive without thinking just punishes the losing team so much.

Homeguard is a load of crap to help the winning team win faster as is the baron. All the advantages are given to the winning team.

XonraMar 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

there is 0 teamfighting now. It's all about skirmishes. games are so one sided I haven't seen a comeback in all my games. The winner is decided at 5 minutes - 14 minute. Either be stomped or stomp others. I think turrets really need to be brought back as of right now they are slightly stronger than a super minion. Being able to dive without thinking just punishes the losing team so much.

Homeguard is a load of crap to help the winning team win faster as is the baron. All the advantages are given to the winning team.

I've had 1 genuine comeback in all the games I played so far. The only reason for it was a cocky team going for baron without clearing vision and I stole baron and we got a kill because they were low. We ended up just pushing and winning somehow.

Outside of that I've had no comebacks from the enemy team or mine when one team is clearly ahead. It tends to be boring in both ways.

Serika ZeroMar 13, 201610 votes

I see no difference between 2 seasons ago or right now.

Snowballing still exist Shitty junglers that feed your laners buffs on purpose still exist Trolls still exist Flamers still exist Ragers still exist Comebacks still exists Assassins can still kill the enemy ADC/APC The ADC can still kill tanks (eventually) Positioning still matters

The only thing that changed is that now "lcs" is more about strategy than mechanics. For everyone one else its the same. Great "Fiora is OP" now. Last season it was GankPlank is OP, last season it was Sivir is OP. A while ago Kassadin was OP. A while ago Irelia was OP. A while ago Olaf was OP. etc etc Like, this game is kept unbalanced on purpose. There's always picks that are stronger than others. However, for everyone below dia 1 it doesn't really matter. You ain't playing this game for money, and nor are your enemies. Sometimes you are better then your enemy and you win. Sometimes, shocking, the enemy is better. And you lose.

The game is "just as fun" as a few seasons ago. Maybe you don't play the "meta" champions now, which were meta when you "had fun". But whatever, few things actually changed.

NotClarkolasMar 13, 20163 votes

"You dont want a game where every click matters......." What? Who wants a game that is tense and close and nail-biting!?! Oh. Everyone.

Your Next KillMar 13, 201612 votes

No.

Tense and close and nail-biting is not the stand-around-wait-for-teamfight-and-whoever-wins-the-fight-wins-the-game kind of play that is going on now.

KnoyleMar 13, 20162 votes

Give us ARAM death timers and that will fix at least a few problems.

KazaJhodoMar 13, 20162 votes

I think a lot of this issue is connected to matchmaking. More and more I'm seeing complains in regards to it, and I'm seeing drastically different skill-sets in all of my games, in the same tier. I'm a support main, and became so frustrated with this that I just decided- ok, if I'm going to lose, I'm going to play my weakest lanes. At least if I do this I'm learning something, and I'll probably even lose because of me- which is great. I'm tired of losing because I'm relying on my teammates.

I have vastly more experience than the players I'm playing with and its either we destroy the other team, like stupid destroy, or its whoever has the better team comp. Which, welcome to low elo, most of these people don't even know what a teamcomp is, and the kicker is that even if they did, they don't reliably play enough different champions to build one.

I'm tired of losing because of other people. I know what the responses will be, its a team game, blah blah. Well, its soloq, we are not all on coms and we have never played with each other before. This means its very much NOT like a team game, except for the fact that we're all on the same team with roles.

Someone mentioned in the comments below that the only way to carry is to have a vast skill disparity. Hes right, and if there is a vast skill disparity- then matchmaking isn't matching very well. Clearly. There are no excuses anymore, players can now pick their lanes, we know where players are going. A bronze3 top should always be facing a bronze3 top, a plat5 midlaner should always be against another plat5 midlaner. I don't care about mmr, mmr is junk- or at least its not needed, its a bandaid.

Mmr is what got us here, and its not designed for the new system. If you want to have accurate matching you have to accurately measure performance of individuals, per game, and judge them on that. Mmr is what caused me to get into silver 2 in my first promos ever (HA was I NOT silver 2- I knew how to play support and like 2 champions mostly shittily), and the this season I go 7/3 and I'm placed bronze 5. Broken, obviously. If I started a new account, I guarantee I would be placed much much higher without the help of mmr. I'm not going to do that though, because I shouldn't have to do that for the system to work properly.

Anyways, I go into a lot of detail about this, and what I think could be done to fix it. I am a programmer for a living, but I'm by no means a riot level programmer, I know what that means. I feel like my ideas could really turn the game around, or help spark someone else to turn the game around. I'd appreciate it if you guys would throw your options in. I've gotten a lot of great comments so far with indepth thought.

Lets see if we can get riots attention, if we want a better game we need to contribute to it being a better game.

Fixing the Ranked Ladder System

Julius EvolaMar 13, 20161 votes

League of supports (45% cdr) and ADCs mixed with this dynamic queue is the cause of this. Assassins, mages, and solo pathing champs cause excitement and balance in the game.

Unstoppable MonkMar 13, 20161 votes

League of supports?

But there's no one playing main-support in a lotta places?

Julius EvolaMar 16, 20161 votes

Lulu, Nautilus, Lux, Morgana, are supports. They are played in every lane.

You could even throw in the support junglers if you'd like. Supports + ranged ADCs. Is the game this winter.

RavenstikerMar 13, 20162 votes

All i see now is Buttfuck Or Get Buttfucked

AMYS GRAVEMar 14, 20162 votes

I actually enjoy the 45+ min knock down drag out very close matches. They are the most fun i have in this game. That said i really dont want late game stall comps to be the only ones that are viable.

Hedgehog HustlerMar 14, 20162 votes

Only two possibilities nowadays.

Either your team wins or the enemy team wins.

DengedenMar 13, 20161 votes

That's because you and I are the same low level players. There are 2 scenarios: Extreme skill disparities lead to stomps or the 20 min mark leads to teams playing ARAM instead of pressuring properly.

EDIT:

I want the old ~30-minute games back, where decisions were much more diverse and there were multiple ways to finish off a game.

and

or an extremely tense game where every single click matters, and being a few pixels off could mean the game

Aren't those the same thing? ...

Your Next KillMar 13, 20163 votes

No, the 30 minute games had many more options. You could split, get baron, team fight, roam, and getting caught out wasn't the end of the world. With these 45+ minute games, if you don't stick together as a team in everything you do, it very well could mean the game and you can't break off and do anything other than teamfight or baron.

I'm not really sure if I explained that as well as I could have, if it's still not clear tell me and I'll try again

DengedenMar 13, 20161 votes

Isn't that more of a matter of soloQ than with the state the game is in?

You can't rely on your team to not get caught, so you stay grouped, sacrificing CS and XP. Not that the insurmountable risk - high reward thing isn't a problem.

XonraMar 13, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that more of a matter of soloQ than with the state the game is in?

No, because pro games are the same way. You either see one team completely stomp in a sub 25 minute win or you see a game that lasts forever because past 30 minutes 1-2 deaths in a pro game fight means the winning team in that fight is going to take so much control that it will take an ace in the other direction for them to lose at that point with no mistakes at all being able to be made.

That last part sounds good, until you realize people have to watch how boring that is when teams just play "go in, other teams runs" and vice versa for 15 minutes because everyone is afraid of dying or losing ground so nothing happens unless it is clown fiesta fights.

Even the casters and pro players talk about how boring that is all the time this season. Honestly Riot is the only one that seems 100% happy with the current state of the game.

ValyrianBladeMar 14, 20161 votes

Just looking at my match history for the month of March, a mix of ranked a normal games here: 30:58 30:18 32:49 20:34 24:47 20:21 43:16 24:05 27:33 36:44 47:21 27:22 20:50 19:45 41:05 34:07 31:08 37:47 35:44 28:15 35:47 32:51 53:30 43:46 39:43 27:34

Let's call a stomp a game that's done in under 25 minutes (i.e. giving you 5 minutes leeway). Let's call a drawn-out game one that lasts 45min as you've indicated. Counts <25: 6 25 to 30: 4 30 to 35: 6 35 to 40: 5 40 to 45: 3 45+: 2

I understand that 26 games is a pretty small sample, but it looks like my experience doesn't match yours at all. More than half of my games are 25-40 minutes (nearly 80% are 24-44min).

I encourage you to look at your match history to see whether the same applies. We have a tendency to remember the bad and not the good :P

If not, then perhaps it's your playstyle. Perhaps you play an extremely aggressive snowball style (to end early) and are bad at playing behind (get ended on early). Perhaps if you get ahead but don't snowball hard you're not good at closing out games (results in really long games that are ended on 1 mistake).

CavemanteroMar 14, 20163 votes

I'm calling BS on this because just because a game lasts 30 minutes...it is usually over in the first 15.

ValyrianBladeMar 14, 20161 votes

Well, with an attitude like that, no wonder all games are either stomps or long drawn out games that end on 1 mistake.

You're basically saying any game under 35 minutes was a stomp that was over at 15 minutes. Any game over 35 minutes was ended on a mistake?

OP gave pretty clear parameters and I looked at my match history because I disagreed with his sentiment, and my numbers support my sentiment.

If a game lasts 30min it's definitely, with 100% certainty not over in the first 15. The early game makes the late game easier/harder. If you survive to 30 minutes, the other team is clearly making mistakes to let you back in the game. Maybe you're just not taking advantage of them. More likely, you are taking advantage of their mistakes but are committing even more of your own.

GulmaMar 14, 20161 votes

In order to turtle back into the game you needed gold before not these new dragon/baron buff that are great if you are winning.