Thoughts on Thornmail: It could definitely be implemented better

darkdill··3 votes·549 views

Thornmail is one of those items I have a hate/hate relationship with. I hate how it's the ONLY thing stopping 5-physical compositions, and I hate how its counterplay is both bad and confusing. People first think "get lifesteal", but they're wrong; you build magic resist to counter Thornmail. Couple that with Thornmail having awful stats for cost, while basically creating an instant-lose scenario for the ones facing it, and it's easy to see why the item borders on toxic territory.

Having seen some new stuff for S5, though, has given me some ideas on how Thornmail could be altered.

Note that these are mutally exclusive, so they don't mix together.

  1. Change Thornmail to deal its damage to the attacker over time, but at a higher percentage. This way, if you're hovering at low health, Thornmail won't instantly kill you for critting someone.

  2. Change Thornmail's effect from a passive to an active, one that gives the Thorns effect for a limited time, but at a MUCH higher potency. This creates windows of timing for the attacker to exploit, and enables more power.

  3. Change Thornmail entirely to have an active effect that works akin to Odyn's Veil, which builds up in power/damage according to how much damage the wielder takes.

If anyone's got other ideas, I'm open to them. But don't just jump on any hate bandwagons.

15 Comments

Raptamei2 votes

2 is how Dota does it. Reflects 100% damage but only for a few seconds. Much more interesting and has a higher skill cap.

Ale non è male2 votes

It is not more interesting. thornmail is there to be situational, not to be used by everyone with enough reflex to press the key for the active when being focused by a certain target ,especially if the champ yet has an abilities to force the enemy to attack you like galio/Rammus/Shen Just imagine the tons of damage on a Shen that is designed to build as a full tank against any kind of enemy....

The Paulrus1 votes

I like thornmail how it is, although I do like the idea of giving it an active. I think something akin to Odyn's Veil would be a solid choice. That or make the active be a weaker Alistar Ult, acting as a medium % damage reduction for 5-10 seconds.

thinking man1 votes

Give it an active because it shouldn't be so oppressive to auto attackers.

Also make it reflect all physical damage since AD casters are the real freelo right now.

You can buff the stats if you do that but idk how making it reflect all physical damage would pan out, so they should maybe withhold on that.

darkdill1 votes

The "Odyn's Veil"-style active would be the best bet, IMO. Absorb incoming damage during a window, and then unleash it in a powerful burst around you. It'd be a bit like Maokai's ultimate.

Only Play Darius1 votes

No.

Can't tell you how many times my teammates have fed the f*ck out of Vayne, and even when playing squishies, that beautiful item 3075 is the only thing that saves me and allows me to carry my team out of the pit they dug themselves in.

Hell Week1 votes

i start to get useless as riven when they build thormails. 1 person builds thornmails, then the rest of the team gets the idea and it spreads like a wildfire. a wildfire i can not put out lol.

darkdill1 votes

This. Once a team gets 3-5 Thornmails, counterplay for the victims goes to ZERO. Champions like Riven, Ashe, etc., are left with an obnoxious "kill yourself" scenario with no way out, and no way to outplay it.

Hell Week1 votes

you mean build thornmails AGAINST champs like Riven and Ashe right? Now that i think of it, a thornmail could work on RIven as well correct, or what do you think?

Ale non è male2 votes

Once a team gets 3-5 Thornmail yor team should have enough damage from their AP sources to kill it. If you are going with extreme tactic like having only AD damage on champ select, it is fair that your enemy can counter you with an extreme itemization route like going multiple Thornamil.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

This is true. There's a reason people should not go for full ad comps.

vC48YNoGbJ1 votes

I main mid so I don't have experience with this, but tell me what's the problem with buying Maw of Malmortius to counter it? Or Wit's End if you're an auto attack spammer?

Aheadatime1 votes

I think number 2 has potential. Upvoted and heres a bump. I posted a thread about balance last night and thornmail was one of the items I talked about. I proposed that it now reflects true-damage enhanced autos (vayne, corki, irelia, yi), but at half-strength (15% reflect).

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pLqqemMx-general-balance-ideas

Do you think that maybe number 2 of OP could be combined with my concept to make the active more potent?

Extreme Troller1 votes

nobody use active btw. who care about active ? you must be new, do you know it's league of legends forum made by riot ?

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