Playing as Galio I use my E to charge in to the enemy
but then Vi uses her Q to hit me head on
Vi's Q knocks me out of the way and cancels my in-flight E and she isn'tdamaged at all
how the hell does it decide which ability is superior to another
Crett8 votesability hitbox vs champ hitbox i think
Spacesuit Spiff8 votesI assume its something to do with the hitboxes. Havent gone out of my way to study this, but it seems like some abilities have hitboxes larger than the champion, so those will connect first. It seems like there are a lot of cases where both champs get hit and interrupted, when the hitboxes are equivalent.
Elikain2 votesI don't think larger hitboxes have priority over smaller hitboxes because both hitboxes have to (from the standpoint of computer graphics) at least generate a single point that both hitboxes share. AKA they have to touch. So there's no "this champ's hitbox hit this champ first" according to this rule.
One way to solve this it is to determine the speed of which both objects travel and say that the faster object has the priority but since Galio's and Vi's ability speeds aren't the same (as many other champs), one champion would always have an advantage over the other - it isn't a righteous solution since these numbers are hard-coded.
The other way to solve the priority problem for abilities that disrupt one another is to look at who cast the ability last. As the last person who cast it can be considered as casting his ability to counter the first.
Thegreatxiu1 votesYou forget that on spells like this there are two different hitboxes that are mostly overlaid on each other. There is the ability hitbox, and then there is the champion hitbox. If the ability hitbox collides with an enemy champion hitbox then the skill goes off, but if the ability hitbox only touches an enemy's ability hitbox nothing happens. So although at one point of time the hitbox has to touch the other ability hitbox the ability hitboxes aren't the same as the champion hitbox. So if Vi's ability hitbox is ahead of her champion hitbox there is some disjunction that would essentially give her priority.
TequilaZombie1 votesI'd rather have the one who cast it first is the one who gets to use it. Otherwise if 2 champs have a CC dash the one who went through the work to get into an advantageous position to engage first is gonna get punished for it simply because the other player has some decent reflexes.
Elikain1 votesThat's not good because then you have people competing who's gonna throw their abilities first in order to come out ahead. There's no thought put into cycling the abilities if you needed to, only the need to throw everything out faster than the other guy because then, you can't be interrupted. It really isn't rewarding reaction anyone's reaction time.
Galio's Justice Punch has setup time while Vi's Vault Breaker doesn't. So this may put Vi at an advantage if she ever wants to interrupt Galio's charge but you have to know this and be aware that it works that way to use it. Galio may still evade Vi Q if he predicts she's gonna deck him first as that hop back may allow him to dodge it and uppercut her on her new position (after she Qs him and misses). This is the actual true skill prediction on both sides that should be rewarded. Knowing how the mechanics of those skills work in order to capitalize on them from both ends.
Arshaka Illithid2 votesIt could be similar to how a lot of fighting games do it, with a combination of hitboxes and hurtboxes. A move has a certain size of hitbox, which is when the ability hits, that extends a certain distance past the character's hurtbox, where they can be hit. The first dash to successfully connect its hitbox to the enemy's hurtbox connects first. In the Galio v. Vi case, my guess is that Vi's fist is not considered an extension of her hurtbox, while Galio's is. Or, their hitboxes are of similar size but Galio, being larger, has less distance between hitbox and hurtbox.
awdaf6 votesNothing stops the Iron fists
Cragmore2 votesgreat show :D
New Tool Album1 votesNothing stops the Iron fists
Nothing should stop a castle charging at you either.
Golden Tager X6 votesWhichever ability has more disjoint from the characters hitbox gets priority.
RavenMagus5 votesHit boxes and spaghetti code.
Ralanr4 votesIt's like whenever I try to ram into Gragas but he rams me back and knocks me away.
Fun.
Glory ln Death41 votesGragas has spent many decades honing his beer belly to perfection. Tempered through blood, sweat, and whiskey, none can stand before its glorious, rolling fat!
TyrekGoldenspear31 votesHe has to.
If he doesn't constantly hone his beer belly, he will lose weight from all the leaping and running he does in LoL.
Then this happens.
Wind Whistler4 votesHe has to.
If he doesn't constantly hone his beer belly, he will lose weight from all the leaping and running he does in LoL.
Then this happens.
Love the old splash.
TyrekGoldenspear4 votes... I can see why. He has... curves...
Velzard of Koz10 votes
What I've seen cannot be unseen
Knalxz1 votesYou better runrunrunrunrun...
xxxDogmanxxx4 votesSomeone actually tested that (can't remember who), and apparently if both abilities have an interrupt/displacement, the game prioritizes one skill over another according to 2 conditions.
Earl Eulrich3 votesall i know about the topic is that Gragas e is prioritized above everything else...i guess it´s hitbox based.
macromite3 votesThink of it like this.
To hit a champion you need to hit their hitbox, essentially the center of their frame, To get hit they need to hit your hitbox When both of you dash you both extend the hitbox that you are trying to hit your opponent with (Fist).
However Vi extends her fist farther from her center hitbox, which means that her fist will connect with your center before your fist connects with her center, thus, do to the nature of the ability, you get knocked out of your ability and vi takes no damage.
Just be happy it wasn't gragas who can do the same thing while using his body, meaning that in the coding his center of mass is behind him.
Cragmore2 votesThat's an interesting question.
I think it has to do with how those two skills work. Think about how you target with galio E and Vi Q. When you look at E, your target box is a circle at the end of the path. Vi Q is the whole path is the spell target area. Crett might be on to something. But, I think it's how the spells target.
CrossbowRanger2 votesIt's due to how networking works and how it confirms actions. Ever notice a slight lag when you die sometimes when you're about to ALSO kill the other person with you... but that doesn't happen and you just die. Also what Crett said, it has to do with hitboxes and what I mentioned above. Ever wonder what blitz sometimes lands impossible hooks? Yeah. The game has too many interactions for them to realistically fix this.
Wind Whistler2 votesWhy would you play Galio : (
Melledoneus7 votesBecause he got reworked and is really fucking cool now?
Wind Whistler3 votesBecause he got reworked and is really fucking cool now?
I wouldn't really call what they did a Rework. Galio has always been cool. He's always been strong.
Melledoneus5 votesSo changing his entire kit isn't a rework?
Also, he's new, who wouldn't want to play him?
Wind Whistler3 votesSo changing his entire kit isn't a rework?
Also, he's new, who wouldn't want to play him?
No. Changing a champion's entire kit, voice, visuals, and lore is effectively removing them from the game.
Although, I'm afraid I can't argue against that. Everyone DOES want to always play with their shiny new toy, until all the shine wears off and it just becomes another old boring toy again.
Elikain15 votesDon't be that guy "old Galio was working". He clearly wasn't when no one played him. His years old design and kit has shown a lot of wear. And for today's standards, it was no longer accomplishing what Riot was trying to aim for when they first made Galio.
Is your argument really "He's shiny now so everyone wants him but the shine wears off"? Of course it does. Riot even stated that their process of reworking champs probably will never end as the rate they are doing it isn't fast. But in order for us to have quality reworks, the process has to be on the same level as new champion creation.
Romans VI XXIII2 votesWhat he is trying to say is technically Old Galio and New Galio can co-exist in League.
Look at the Old vs New kits, none of the Old abilities are even remotely similar to the new.
The only similarities at all are the taunt and MR scaling, and they them selves are completely different mechanics.
If they had given New Galio a different Name and Visual, you would have no idea that it was a "Rework" of Old Galio.
The same can be seen with Sion and Taric.
So I am with him, there is a difference between Reworking a champion, and completely removing a champion and replacing it with something completely different.
WW is a good example of a Rework, they kept the basics of his kit but tweaked him alot. Old WW and New WW could not co-exist, because they share some of the exact same abilities. Unlike Galios Tarics and Sions reworks, or should I say Removal-Works.
Elikain8 votesI don't see new Galio as the death of the old one. They look remarkably similar, despite Riot giving him a new model and color to boot. The thing that made Galio Galio was his iconic taunt and affinity to absorb a lot of magic damage. So it made sense that he now should be a magic damage eating tank but not reworked to a point where his mage qualities disappeared. His kit and ability base damage + scaling cements that fact.
If they had given New Galio a different Name and Visual, you would have no idea that it was a "Rework" of Old Galio.
I would because i played the old Galio. The new Galio reminds me of the old one, but better version of him. New players probably won't know that but that can't be an argument if they don't know League's full champion roster in the first place. The point that i'm trying to make is that Riot wasn't aiming to do Galio's VU, but a VGU. Galio is still very recognizable to me, even if he is no longer colored like a rainbow.
His new ult is the most iconic to me, though. Allowing him to instantly come over to help his teammates and bash some faces in is really cool than that old, puny Flash + ult combo. The reliance on a long CD summoner spell in order for a champion have a once-in-a-5-minute-window moment was not cutting it.
Warwick is different. They wanted to keep his feral nature and the Warewolf trope was working but they just made his model reflect Zaunite agumentations that made him into the killing machine he already was. Hell, Warwick only kept two of his abilities - Blood Hunt and his Passive. Despite his ult having the same suppress mechanic, it's an entirely different skill that allows Warwick to not be reliant on a Flash + ult, once every 5 minutes to be useful. And if he was already supposed to tank everyone's damage while doing his ult thing, Riot also gave him a new skill to survive that part.
Wind Whistler2 votesI don't know how you could praise Galio's "rework" and shun Warwick's rework. Warwick kept a lot more than just his passive and blood hunt.
The thing is, his abilities weren't exactly bland or generic, but they were extremely simple. His Q took a chunk of health from an enemy and restored a chunk of his own health. His W raised his (and his allies, too) attack speed. His E made him move faster towards champions low on health.
His Q still steals a chunk of life, but now it also applies on hit effects AND can be used to place himself directly in front of the enemy. His W gives him attack speed AND movement speed (a combination of his old E and old W) towards champions with low health, and gives him even MORE attack and movement speed if they're REALLY low. His E is completely new, since his old E was dumped into his new W. His ult actually makes him leap now, like his tooltip used to say, rather than just teleporting onto the enemy and ripping their face off. To compensate for the loss in reliability, it now gains range depending on your movement speed, which works well with his W now. It also interacts with his E, and puts him in range of the enemy to use his Q.
Overall, he's mostly the same, only now, he has more depth to his kit. The only thing Galio kept was his fucking fangs. HIS FANGS.
Elikain3 votesNot sure how you got that i don't like Warwick's rework. I like all the reworks Riot has done. Shen has been the only one i was "meh" about since that was some partial rework done on him.
Galio's change was the same as Yorick's change in terms of transformation. Yorick's kit as well as Galio's weren't working in the long run. There were just no buffs/nerfs Riot could ship to make them better. That's why they were changed. I see no reason why Riot should be obligated to stick to something they've done years ago, if the overall concept of the abilities is not working.
Furthermore, if they are obligated to keep all of the abilities but attempt to half-ass them somehow, that's a lot bigger limitation to what they can do for a champion. They can't adapt the champion to what they should have been, they have to make it work with what was already been given to them. If their kits simply aren't working, the rework is going to be failure but the time, effort and resources spent on a big project like this are wasted. I think that this is the reason why Riot is also not happy with how Shen turned out. He works but there's thematic dissonance with his spirit blade that just isn't making Shen who he is.
As Riot already said, they have gotten pretty good at identifying the core pillars of what makes a specific old champion unique, then they basically rebuild them around these pillars and change things that need to be replaced. The end result is still a champion we're all familiar with but still with new things in their kit that perfectly suits their new roles in League.
Wind Whistler1 votesOh. Since you said that Warwick's rework was different, I thought you meant that you also didn't like it. Idk, that was stupid of me.
Also, I love Yorick and Galio almost equally, but I'm going to admit that Galio's kit was significantly better designed than Yorick's. Also, Galio wasn't bad. He was actually pretty damn strong, but the problem is very people knew how to use him. They simply didn't care They all just thought he was some boring, generic, defective anti-mage, when he was so much more. Actually, he was barely even an anti-mage to begin with.
The concept of his abilities WAS working. He was a tanky mage, but unlike Cho'Gath, his kit was more supportive of his allies. I don't know what makes you keep thinking that his kit wasn't working. Besides his playrate, was there really anything else?
And if Riot is so good at identifying what makes an old champion unique, then why are there so many people saying that Galio is just some generic tank now? Why is almost everyone saying that he's completely different from Old Galio?
To be honest, now that I think about it, Yorick's kit was working, too. He was a late game scaling Juggernaut. I'm pretty sure that was what he was designed to be.
A champion's kit CAN be preserved through a VGU. Warwick is a prime example of what a VGU should be.
Elikain3 votesThe concept of his abilities WAS working. He was a tanky mage,
How is this different now? He has a scaling magic shield as a passive, a passive ground pound that comes sooner off CD the more he hits his spells and he has retained his previous ult's taunt and damage reduction as a non-ultimate ability but just without damage.
The reason why people think now he's "less" of a mage is because old Galio was melee and he never threw a single punch at the enemy. His basic combo was just his Q + E. That wasn't anything special. And you said he was a tanky mage. That didn't change now. Morde had the same problem. He plays, looks and feels like a death dealing knight and yet, his most optimal build was DFG + E + R + Ignite nuke. Someone you should expect that he would use the mace to bash your head in actually played like Veigar. Galio is much more thematically cohesive now than he used to be, in my opinion. People sometimes oppose the change because they don't want to adapt. That isn't a valid reason to be against it.
Sure, both Galio and Yorick were working as champions. But that wasn't the case when they were so underplayed that the people didn't know how to properly counter them BECAUSE they almost never play against them. This isn't really what i'd call "viable". There were situations where their kits were hard counters to some champions but a lot of other times they were just pick traps for people. They had their uses but they had very few windows of opportunity where they could capitalize on those moments. If they miss it, they were just bad to play with and just a nuisance to play against. Nothing more. I wouldn't call this good design and the champions just didn't age well. I can't blame Riot for that. That's why they were updated, among other reasons.
A champion's kit CAN be preserved through a VGU. Warwick is a prime example of what a VGU should be.
It can be preserved but that doesn't have to be the case with every old champion and their rework. And if Riot didn't manage to preserve their kit but HAD to change some things and keep the rest, people shouldn't hold this against them. If they've already proven it's possible, don't expect this to be the norm. They do test a lot of paper kits and prototype a lot of other abilities but they don't pass the testing phase. Riot wouldn't have reworked Galio if they never managed to find the right abilities for his kit. They don't go into production on reworks or new champions if they aren't satisfied with the results.
Katarina was one of the champions who first received VU. Her gameplay didn't really change and her second W change was also not working. So she was revisited again during the Assassin Update and now is in a much more satisfying spot. My point being is that each champion is its own project. There really isn't a formula that you can run old champions through to get to most satisfying results.
Some champions can be preserved, some champions have to be changed in some way. For example, as a Morgana main, i feel like her kit right now is OK. But it isn't anything special. So when hers and Kayle's eventual dual rework comes along, i have faith that Riot knows what Morgana is all about and that they'd change her appropriately without me having to meddle in things. I honestly don't know what i'd like for her to be able to do but i am curious to find out what Riot can.
Wind Whistler1 votesHow is this different now?
Damn. You got me there. Well, sort of. Unlike Sion's "update", Galio's had him still be the same class he used to be. Also, before I say more about Galio, yes, I know that Sion's kit was a mess, and keeping his kit like they did with Warwick would have been stupid. He needed changes. He needed to be either a burst mage, or a tanky melee carry, preferably the latter. Turning him into a CC tank was fucking stupid and uncalled for.
Back to Galio; While Galio is still a tanky mage, he's less of one now. He has more mobility, but less damage, and less tankiness. His kit is also more melee oriented than it used to be. I don't know what made them decide Galio loved to punch things. He had a high base AD, and his auto attack animation was pretty cool, and felt really nice, but that was it. His new taunt lacks the insane damage that it used to have, and his new ultimate doesn't make up for the loss in damage, either. Furthermore, it feels a lot more limited, as he can only use it on allies. While Old Galio only had the option of using it on himself, he could either use it to initiate a fight, protect himself, or protect his carries. He could also place his shield on himself OR allies, something that the new one can't do. Overall, he feels like less of a tanky mage to me, and not only that, but he feels like he has even LESS options than he used to, which is the opposite of what they did with all of the other reworks. As much as I hate Yorick's rework, I will admit that it gave him more options, and he has to make more important decisions now than he used to.
I'll agree that his Q and E weren't anything that special, with more focus on the former. I would have been just fine if they had removed them completely, and in some way kept his ult and shield more than they actually ended up doing, but that's not what they did. ALL of his abilities were drastically changed, to the point where he doesn't feel like Galio anymore for a lot of people. That's the problem when you change a champion's kit so drastically- They become a new champion. Of course, that's not the only factor. Their voice, visuals, and even lore help make them who they are, too. But when you change too much of it, they become someone else with the same name. That's why I constantly say that these are not updates. They are simply removing a champion and replacing them with someone else.
Also, Galio and Yorick WEREN'T bad picks. Galio had very high damage, as well as amazing sustain, and was incredibly tanky. His abilities were difficult to land sometimes, and yes, while certain champions could minimize his effectiveness, if the enemy team lacked those champions, they were pretty much fucked. Yorick, on the other hand, had a pretty poor early game. His trades were only slightly above average, and he had to push waves in order to sustain himself. Not to mention, he had big mana issues. These things made him easy targets for ganks, but once he hit late game, his damage, sustain, and tankiness all went through the roof. Even his mobility was pretty good, with the massive movement speed boost from his Q.
A rework should update a champion, while at the same time, keeping them as familiar as possible. This has not been the case for anyone but Warwick.
Off Meta Evan1 votesYou're my hero and I agree with everything you just said
Ariel the Cruel1 votesor should I say Removal-Works.
I believe the term you're looking for is, "relaunch." Though Riot tends to avoid that term after all the backlash it generated from the first few attempts.
TotalJerk1 votesBecause freelo.
Wind Whistler1 votesBecause freelo.
Old Galio was arguably stronger. He was tankier and did more damage.
TotalJerk1 votesWhy was no one playing him, then?
Wind Whistler1 votesWhy was no one playing him, then?
Because they've been brainwashed by the rest of the community into thinking he sucks, and didn't have enough independent thought for them to go and see on their own.
Elikain2 votesI can agree that old Galio had his uses but he wasn't stronger or better than new Galio. The reason why he was underplayed was because he honestly sucked in many games, only winning those games he directly hard countered + relied on no knowledge on how to get countered by the enemy team.
That does the exact opposite of proving his viability. If his kit was rather simple and can be worked around in a wide arc (not giving Galio any chances to get fed because it was easy to do), he was even less valuable than a mediocre champion.
Wind Whistler1 votesI can agree that old Galio had his uses but he wasn't stronger or better than new Galio. The reason why he was underplayed was because he honestly sucked in many games, only winning those games he directly hard countered + relied on no knowledge on how to get countered by the enemy team.
That does the exact opposite of proving his viability. If his kit was rather simple and can be worked around in a wide arc (not giving Galio any chances to get fed because it was easy to do), he was even less valuable than a mediocre champion.
Directly hard countered? I think that's a bit backwards. Even if the enemies knew how to counter him, there was only so much they could do if they didn't have a Braum/Nautilus/Blitzcrank/ect. on their team. Unless someone directly countered GALIO himself, and not the other way around, he was going to do very well that game. He was still relatively useful even if they DID have the aforementioned champions.
Sire Hippington2 votesProbably based on hitboxes. If Vi's Q has a bigger hitbox, she hit's galio first and thus cancles his dash befor getting hit.
LadyRenly2 votesYou are essentially a baseball, getting swatted by a baseball bat. So I guess whoever casts last wins
dunder kill2 votes
: HA! Gottem!
: Shifts anyway "hehe nope xD"
Reformed Kensei1 votesAll you need to know is that Gragass with his fat ass outslams pretty much anything(that isn't marked as unstopable, look Heca ult etc.) in the game.
