Rift Herald needs to buffed so it cannot be taken solo

Aamano··89 votes·2,739 views

Just played a game where the enemy udyr killed Rift Herald at level 6.

this is the same kind of thing when Pantheon and Fiora could do dragon at what, level 4? one 75g ward to deny vision and select champs can just take it by themselves unless a jungler happens to walk by

its not taking Herald at the earliest time, its not one person being able to solo the thing. its when both are possible at the same time that it can feel very abusive. it almost guarantees a tower goes down immediately

Udyr takes herald, immediately goes top and killed teammate. Udyr and top combined with herald and pushed to inhibitor because abandoning mid/bot would have lost even more towers

:about Dragons being taken super early, First Dragon doesn't result in a tower being lost for the other team. In most cases its the opposite, Dragon being a result of one team taking a tower after a gank

61 Comments

SnakDatSmilesBak28 votes

You have to keep it warded at all times or take it yourself. Riot did exactly what they said they would when they said they wanted to make it more rekevant.

I think that taking it as soon as it spawns and pushing 3 towers down immediately is a very fringe case. It means your team made several mistakes in a row and was appropriately punished for them. The vast majority of games don't go like that and if they are then your team is making too many mistakes.

Lyndris16 votes

^this^ it is possible to kill poor lucy before sh takes a single tower

An Undead brat1 votes

Is the officially named Lucy?

Oelyk1 votes

uhhhhhhhhh. I feel like I called her that on a whim but it might just be.

Edit: Holy crap I did, 20 days ago.

http://imgur.com/qVpXhb9 (Click it.)

Skorch1 votes

I know i call her Rifty

Lyndris3 votes

Maybe if we can meme hard enough we can get it to be official! [slayer-jinx-catface]

Blackstone011 votes

I call her Harold

Thuban1 votes

Don't call the Herald that please. It clashes with the original Lucy Lucian I've called him this since teased.

Rewt1 votes

I do think it could possibly use some increased resistances so that you are more inclined to use multiple people to hit the eye.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Except it only takes one person to hit the eye.

devdev4631 votes

{quoted}

You have to keep it warded at all times or take it yourself. Riot did exactly what they said they would when they said they wanted to make it more rekevant.

I think that taking it as soon as it spawns and pushing 3 towers down immediately is a very fringe case. It means your team made several mistakes in a row and was appropriately punished for them. The vast majority of games don't go like that and if they are then your team is making too many mistakes.

I agree that the case he talks about really doesn't happen, but I also think it's bullshit that a soraka can solo the damn thing right when it spawns. It should require at least 2 people to take down like old rift herald, but this one you only need one champion to proc the eye consistently against it, and I think that's pretty lame.

Tobias Brackner3 votes

Homie, if Soraka was spotted when she goes to solo it then they could let her be there for a while, then walk in kill her and take the weakened Herald.

One champ taking it is like one champ taking dragon. Really risky. One ward and the solo is screwed.

CannabisOverlord1 votes

I remember in season 5, i could solo dragon at 5 mins with yorick as long as i had mana pots :'(

OyddAWqJ5r9 votes

Disagree. It takes forever to kill solo for 1 and deals a good amount of damage throughout the fight, leaving you open to steals or just outright death by being caught out in the pit. Additionally, the buff it gives has so much tied to its usefulness that doesn't make taking it an instant gratification objective reward. Using Herald effectively typically relies on poor enemy rotations or a dead enemy jungler/laner so you can abuse it.

There's so much risk tied to soloing it and so much criteria for its effective usage that completely validates when someone manages to solo the Herald.

DeusVult1 votes

not really, anyone can solo and still hit the eye for true damage

how long it takes the new rift to turn is rediculous

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Even so tell me anyone that can take it under 30 seconds. Do you know how dangerous being isolated in that pit by yourself is? You likely don't have sightstone as a top laner so let's add in that you have 0 vision and 0 vision reduction meaning you can get fucked at any time which is an extremely high risk especially if they wait to kill you AND steal it.

GULAG 4 U7 votes

It's super slow, it's insanely easy to predict when one is doing it if you have any form of wit.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Udyr is already a powerfarm-ish jungler so not seeing him on the map for 2 minutes at a time is already pretty standard. Also with the blast cone and a control ward you can just take it without anyone knowing even if scuttle is "warding" it.

Poske4 votes

warwick can take dragon at level 2

Theorchero4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEEvlbew,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-05-26T09:56:10.519+0000)

warwick can take dragon at level 2

Why am I not surprised

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Its not about doing it, but its about whether or not its worth it. At level 2 and the 2:30 spawn, it takes Warwick about 45-60 seconds to take it (depending on your runes and stuff).

Meaning that youre sitting there at level 2 and 1 cs soloing Dragon when the enemy jungler just completed a full clear at the very least. If you think about the drawbacks, during that time the enemy jungler could have taken your other buff, attempted ganks, or saw you when they go for scuttle. I mean, maybe its okay if your vs a jungle Karthus or something you know that backed after a half clear, but if they 3 buff you while youre soloing Dragon, they will be at level 4 and almost double your gold while youre still at level 2. Then you need some fancy outplays or outrotations to get back into the game vs the enemy jungler.

But if youre already good enough for the fancy outplays or outrotations, why go for the level 2 dragon? You might as well skip the dragon, cement a lead first, then get a free dragon after the enemy jungler is dead. That way youre not gambling with putting yourself behind then getting back into the game. You'll be ahead the entire game.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I'll have to try this with Aatrox.

Yalathanil4 votes

I just read "Rift Herald needs to be buffed..." and I heard the cry of every tower in the game.

DevlinCrow3 votes

If you're letting the enemy solo Rift Herald, no offense but they deserve it lol

Darkdemon6532 votes

And if the person holding the eye dies, the eye should disappear

SnakDatSmilesBak11 votes

Nah it's enough of a trade-off that you can't use your trinket while holding the eye. Instead of gutting the buff or making it harder to take so Herald ends up in the same situation as before it's rework, just work harder to secure it for your team.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

One time i forgot it was on my trinket, and i went to ward. You know what happens next.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

This is exactly why I made my comment lol. One game, my enemies used it in their fountain accident.

Lord Desert2 votes

It doesnt only need to be beefed up, it should never have been able to be killed solo in the first place. (Same goes for elder drake. Baron is already decently hard to be killed solo)

Shonjl1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEEvlbew,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-26T02:27:06.031+0000)

It doesnt only need to be beefed up, it should never have been able to be killed solo in the first place. (Same goes for elder drake. Baron is already decently hard to be killed solo)

To be fair, by the time Elder Dragon spawns, its late enough in the game that a ton of champs can take it. That isn't a surprise at all. Literally every ADC by that point that played an average game, or hell just hasn't fed can easily solo it if they have some lifesteal, just will take a while. Baron is barely different. If you are ahead, of course you should have an easy time taking it. Also depends on the champ. Some are extremely good at doing objectives. My favorite Jng being Vi can easily do Elder alone, and fast at that with a normal build on her, nothing fancy, and can even solo Baron easily if she builds some lifesteal. I generally never get lifesteal myself but sometimes I will go why not? And get a item 3153 on her and take it alone.

Your team needs to react to such by having knowledge on the game. Some champs can do things alone, so be aware of that, or if that is too much, at least keep them warded as often as possible.

Lord Desert1 votes

Elder does spawn later but he also does decently less dmg than baron and is easier to kill/less dangerous! Which is weird if you ask me. (This was recentely changed, he now doesnt deal extra dmg towards you depending on drakes slain) If we compare a 35min baron to a 35min elder there are alot more that could solo elder. Thats obviously only based on overall judgement.

Anyway the power and the snowball tendency (Rifty does way less for you if you are the team thats behind, compared to if you would be the team thats ahead) should make a somewhat difficult to take objectiv. Beeing able to solo it, especially even with champs that should definitely not be able to solo it (for example a sup soraka), is a questionable design choice, at best. Heck if some special champs like a warwick or a vi are able to take it solo, be it. But basically everyone, even non junglers, that is bad!

Shonjl1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEEvlbew,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-05-27T01:57:07.677+0000)

Elder does spawn later but he also does decently less dmg than baron and is easier to kill/less dangerous! Which is weird if you ask me. (This was recentely changed, he now doesnt deal extra dmg towards you depending on drakes slain) If we compare a 35min baron to a 35min elder there are alot more that could solo elder. Thats obviously only based on overall judgement.

Anyway the power and the snowball tendency (Rifty does way less for you if you are the team thats behind, compared to if you would be the team thats ahead) should make a somewhat difficult to take objectiv. Beeing able to solo it, especially even with champs that should definitely not be able to solo it (for example a sup soraka), is a questionable design choice, at best. Heck if some special champs like a warwick or a vi are able to take it solo, be it. But basically everyone, even non junglers, that is bad!

Im pretty sure Soraka in generally will never ever take an Elder Dragon. Maybe if she built as an ADC but that is a troll build so won't consider it.

Most champs can't take it alone. Literally the only champs that can are literally really fed ADCs with LS and a lot of AS, or really tanky champs that deal %hp damage. That is why I used WW and Vi as an examples since WW between his passive and his Q and how he generally builds will lifesteal more than it can ever hurt him for, and Vi due to her passive shield and her W passive that does %hp damage and breaks armor, and can constantly repeat it.

Also Elder is a weaker buff than Baron is why. How powerful it is depends on what dragons actually spawned, and if you got them. Say all game only ocean and air dragons spawned, That Elder won't be that great even if you got all of them. Now say it was 3 infernals and 2 mountains? That Elder is going to be probably better than Baron if you got a good chunk or even better all of those dragons. Say you didn't get a single dragon but got Elder? You basically just picked up a tiny burn passive which basically is ignorable other than deny your enemy the buffs.

Baron on the other hand is always useful and is always powerful regardless of most situations. Unless you are so insanely far behind, Baron can make a team that was losing the entire game come back into the game if not outright win it. Or help a team that was winning all game but can't quite finish off the turtling enemy finally be able to break them and end it. You don't get that kind of power out of Elder overall. And Baron is only soloable but a VERY few champs.

You also got to consider Baron has passives to him and actual skills he can use. All Elder has is just spam auto attack that explode in a cone. Baron passively burns you for being near him, has a knock up, has a stun, has an armor/mr shred. He does more things is why. If anything all they should do to Elder is give him more spells to use, he is meant to be the perfect dragon basically combining all the other dragons powers, make him do something with them. Let him use fire dragons power and leave small fire pools on his autos and underneath him similar to what Shyvana does, air dragons power lets him blow you away or knocks people into the air with a giant gust of wind. Earth dragon power can be a massive stun as he slams the ground hard. Ocean can be like some kind of regen on himself, either a big chunk of healing at once or just a %heal over time that looks unnoticable will actually heal him quite a lot and make him last a lot longer.

Lord Desert1 votes

I think you missunderstood something, support soraka can solo Rift Herald, not elder! So Rifty needs some buffs.

And if we compare the strenght of Elder and Baron buff: Elder is "win teamfights", baron is shove minions into the enemy. Baron is always usefull even if you are behind, Elder if you dont have any drakes is not usefull. But If you have 3+ drakes Elder is better than baron, because it basically guarentees that you win the teamfight. So ether you use this to directly end the game. Or you use it to take baron and then finish it. And also you dont necesseray need baron cause towers and their dmg are a joke later. But it surely helps.

Still alot more can solo Elder than solo Baron. While it is possible that the Elder buff is stronger than baron buff!

Regarding Elder abilitys: Yeah, they should have given him something, there is still so much potential left untouched. I also fiddled around with some abilitys/attacks, like a tailwip or a large aoe firebreath and alot more. But it seems they rather focus on a new drake than improving Elder a little :/

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

No, u and ur m8 need to learn to play, think and ward.

one 75g ward to deny vision and select champs can just take it by themselves unless a jungler happens to walk by

If someone take it at lv4... what the f*ck are u doing ??? they'll be so behind in Xp.

AmazoX2 votes

Dear Riot Games,

We want this sexy bastard buffed so players cannot take rift's life VERY easily which enables them to have a huge impact on the game VERY early on the game where it's hard for the players to do anything without excellent team-work and communication, That sexy bastard is cancerous in Solo Q.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

They should do the same for Dragon too. Only person that should be able to solo Dragon early is Nunu.

JuhnChan1 votes

Warwick is also a sustain beast. Honestly Fiddle should be able to as well just because the way he clears Dragon is naturally so SLOWWW

Thefrostyviking1 votes

There are actually a number of junglers that can kill dragons at lvl 2-3.

And nearly every single one can do it at 4.

Altho i do agree, herald being soloable is not K, if taken early it's like a guaranteed first tower which is too strong.

AirKingNeo1 votes

The problem with previous Herald was that it couldn't be soloed.

Also a level 6 Udyr soloing Herald takes about 2 minutes. If he's taking it for 2 minutes and no one stops him or does something else while he wastes time, that's your fault. Same shit for Udyr lv6 soloing a dragon.

Seriously, Herald in a lane is really easy to stop. He turns around for his Eye to nuke him and he's suspectable to CC.

Leetri1 votes

I've only seen Rift Herald being taken in 2 games so far, and in both games she only knocked down 1 tower. In both games the team that grabbed her already was winning, so she didn't really change the outcome of the game. Neither of them were contested either. It's far from a good sample size obviously, but I feel like that is closer to the average outcome of taking Rift Herald than it taking 3 towers.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Abandoning mid and bot would have lost outer turrets. Outer turrets are much less important than an inhib. Rotating to kill Herald was the correct play, your team didn't make it. You deserved the loss.

Play around Herald. Herald needs to be solo-able, otherwise it never gets taken as was the case before.

Altonius Amakiir1 votes

Or you could treat it like you would dragon and ward it, because it takes a long time to take it solo, just like dragon.

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

They also need to reduce how long the mark stays on the ground before it decays and vanishes. Just had a match where we swept in behind as they finished Herald, we aced them before they picked it up, and then more than a full minute later their adc walked past the pit and came out with the buff. Obviously, it got them two free towers. Honestly they never should've implemented this version of Herald at all, but hey, they want League to become Team Deathmatch rather than an objectives game.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Panth was able to solo drag at level 1 with full attack speed runes

Aamano1 votes

And so could old Fiora, and Riot put a stop to it

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

Simply give it (IMO this should apply to baron, but thats another scenario) a passive that makes it take reduced damage unless theres more than 2 players nearby. Like, litterally what towers have, which is 66.66% reduced damage unless theres minions nearby, but with players.

Just Blame Jenny1 votes

Don't hate me for this, but I kind of like that it's not that hard to solo. It means maintaining control top side is meaningful. By the same token, soloing it is really risky if you don't have that control.

RacoonHunter1 votes

What's worse is the fact that the rift herald is tougher in lane to kill than it is to get the buff initially XD

Critmaster Garen1 votes

everyone can take rift herald at round lvl 9. even support soraka.

the reason is rift heralds slow turn speed. even as a single person, you can walk around him in circles and attack him from behind when the eye opens.

i have solod rift herald with numerous champions this way.

if they want to prevent people from soloing him, literally all they have to do is make him turn faster.

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