Requiring Teamwork to Contain Snowballing is Only a Partial Solution

Ifneth··2 votes·813 views

(I have thought my arguments and mean what I say. I hope it comes across as, rather than a salt or rage post, as calm and clear as I meant it to. Enjoy, and tell me what you think!)

A while ago, a fed fighter or slayer could almost literally solo-carry a game by stat-checking their opponents. I would know. I was there—on the receiving end as an ADC in 2017.

Riot understood that this was not fun, so they created a solution, which was to enable teamwork to stop said melee carry reliably. When teams work together to do this, it feels like an amazing raidboss fight whether you win or lose.

The buffs to supports and tanks were part of this decision, and they were part of the reason that the 2017 Summer and Worlds drafts were dominated by supertanks, hypercarries, and enchanters. The most effective tactic available was to stonewall every lane and outscale your opponent.

But Riot has come understand that this was not fun, either. Fighter and slayer players felt irrelevant, and so Riot did what they could. Mage mid and late-game waveclear was nerfed to enable sieges to end in dives. Marksman items were reworked to focus their power on tanks rather than just obliterate everyone, fighters and slayers included.

Here’s the new problem—and why it feels like one player can solo lose the game. The more basic problem of champions snowballing into unstoppable stat-checks was only partly solved by the addition of team-level counterplay. If one player feeds, creating a snowball, and refuses to work with their teammates to stop it, then the snowball generally wins agaisnt the four remaining cooperative players at each turning point in the game, only growing as it does.

The recent focusing of rewards on objectives, promoting the pursuit of them over champion kills, indirectly and unintentionally aggravated this problem. Once the ‘feeder’ completely loses their lane, they lose their turret, too, putting their lane opponents further ahead. They can then push the wave and rotate to other objectives, getting their whole team ahead with turret gold, dragon buffs, and a Rift Herald charge, not to mention map control.

The available counter-snowball mechanics—faster rotations and backs due to a smaller map, shutdown gold, and death timers—are designed to be used by five players working together to out-macro their opponents during the mid or late game. When they are used, again, they are exciting and feel fair for both parties. But they can’t be used by anything less.

Hence the problem of the ‘feeder’. Their usual gameplay pattern is to die several times, fall behind in farm, and then lose their turret. Their opponents emerge with an ‘unearned’ advantage that can then be used to brute-force other lanes. At this juncture, the correct course for the team would be to lose the minimum across the bird while seeking a devastating mid-game turnaround. But for the ‘feeder,’ whose mentality is often compromised by tilt or the knowledge that this account is not their main, the play-pattern is to ragesplit or run around the map taking desperate fights.

Without their help, their team lacks the map pressure to deny their opponent ‘free’ objectives that they could not otherwise have taken. Now the snowball gains momentum. One turret after another falls. Arguments break out. Players mute each other. Baron spawns, and, thousands of gold behind and with compromised teamwork, the team with the ‘feeder’ loses. The game ends in frustration for the losers and short-lived joy for the winners—the ‘feeder’ may be on their team next match.

What were those unfortunate four supposed to do? Well, there’s the rub. The game is balanced around two teams of five players working together, with the outcome depending on their individual performance and team macro. That’s a reasonable expectation in 5v5 Ranked Flex and the competitive scene, but not in solo-queue. Competitive mentality cannot be guaranteed for every player on both teams every game.

If we want to improve game quality on the ranked ladder, then the expectations around which the game is balanced must change. Toxic behavior must be expected in such an emotionally charged environment as a League of Legends game, whose state will have to be robust enough to handle it when it appears rather than devolve into a stomp. That will mean two things in particular.

First, the gold and experience advantages of individual players needs to matter so much as to affect macro decisions about map presence. Since it’s generally gained and kept by good play rather than merely collecting a couple free kills during laning phase, and since shutdown mechanics keep it from becoming permanent or team-wide, this form of snowballing is healthy. An overextended splitpusher, say, can be stopped by two or three people rather than requiring all five.

Second, the marginal value of teamwork must decrease outside competitive League. The difference between 4 players working together and 5 players working together is so large, because teamwork is supposed to counter snowball, that the above might not matter much if done alone. A tilted player should not be an anchor that drags a team to defeat. It should be alright if one or both teams is dragging one around the Rift. Winning a game by steamrolling over your opponents with the lead one of them gifted you is not admirable or fun and only leads to disappointment once your luck ends and you face harder opponents. Then you might even become the ‘feeder’.

I can’t say exactly how to make these changes, but Riot has fixed similar ones in the past. They brought Taliyah’s waveclear into line with other mages because her roaming was coming at the expense of other lanes. We can make early rotations not do so, either. For example, perhaps, we could reduce the gold for repeated champion kills to reduce the reward of killing your opponent over and over.

Taken together, these changes would put leads in the hands of the players who most deserve and could best use them, while keeping them from automatically putting their team ahead and thus requiring those fed players to exploit and press their advantage, say by splitpushing an Inhibitor. This would return the ability to ‘solo-carry,’ only now by killing objectives around the map with yourself or one or two others.

7 Comments

Korijenkins1 votes

I don't think it can be understated how important it is for people to listen to one another. Had a game that was off to a fairly good start playing mid against asol. Botlane overextends to the enemy turret, and asol ganks bot from mid within a mere 10 seconds due to his E.

I warn them, he can outroam me easily with that.

They do the exact same thing again.

Now I'm being flamed for not roaming. The jungler ganks and dies, and top starts to feed. Even though I'm 1-2, the team is suddenly at 18 deaths. There are no options available for me to roam, nor for the jungler to gank, as top is now feeding and bot is overextending.

Honestly the best way I can think of offsetting some of the snowballing is to just move to team XP like they have in Hots. It might not be as fun, it might be unpopular, but at least the botlane doing well can counteract the top lane feeding to a degree.

Ifneth1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think it can be understated how important it is for people to listen to one another. Had a game that was off to a fairly good start playing mid against asol. Botlane overextends to the enemy turret, and asol ganks bot from mid within a mere 10 seconds due to his E.

I warn them, he can outroam me easily with that.

They do the exact same thing again.

Now I'm being flamed for not roaming. The jungler ganks and dies, and top starts to feed. Even though I'm 1-2, the team is suddenly at 18 deaths. There are no options available for me to roam, nor for the jungler to gank, as top is now feeding and bot is overextending.

Honestly the best way I can think of offsetting some of the snowballing is to just move to team XP like they have in Hots. It might not be as fun, it might be unpopular, but at least the botlane doing well can counteract the top lane feeding to a degree.

Teamwork in soloqueue should give you an advantage, but lacking it should not doom your team. That’s the takeaway here. Giving fed players enough agency to become problems requiring multiple enemies to handle, while rewarding successful handling with shutdowns or precious minutes of scaling, would put the outcome of the game on the shoulders of the players who aren’t tilted or trolling rather than on the ones who are.

As for your experience, yeah, teamfighting mages generally cannot match the roams of roaming mages or assassins. And yikes, 18 deaths. During future games against them, ward the river bushes and always keep enough mana to clear two waves with combos. If you see them vanish into fog for more than five seconds, then combo that wave, the next one, and recall to buy items and regain mana. Doing so forces them to either commit to every roam, recall in fog, or lose farm for each second they waste in the river.

I do not think team leveling would be a good idea. First, the bottom lane is balanced around having less experience to compensate for having two champions. Second, the jungle is balanced around losing experience for inefficient pathing. Third, denying enemies experience is a legitimate tactic that requires significant planning and skill. League would be a more casual game for switching to team experience.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I agree that lack of teamwork in solo-queue is causing more snowballing, but I'm not entirely convinced yet that nerfing teamwork is the right way to fix this. Changing the game in this way hurts competitive players disproportionately more. Why not fix matchmaking and MMR measurements first instead?

Ifneth1 votes

{quoted}

I agree that lack of teamwork in solo-queue is causing more snowballing, but I'm not entirely convinced yet that nerfing teamwork is the right way to fix this. Changing the game in this way hurts competitive players disproportionately more. Why not fix matchmaking and MMR measurements first instead?

Well, I doubt that nerfing teamwork would hurt the competitive scene. Players there want their chance to shine, too, and they would work together anyway because their individual performance is already near the limits. Cooperation is the only way to gain an advantage on stage.

But that’s just not true in solo-queue. Players tilt, rage, feed, afk, and grief regularly, even in Platinum and Diamond. Making solo-queue victory rely on all players working together closely means that teamwork feels amazing when it works, but it also gives toxic players the power to ruin games, even when all their teammates are cooperating. That’s something that we should prioritize stopping even if it lowers some of the occasional highs of five randoms working together.

As for MMR and matchmaking, that’s a problem in Challenger, maybe Master and Diamond, but not many other places. Everyone else will be matched with and against players within one or maybe two divisions up or down. We’re talking about a difference of 100 LP at the outside. It’s also not what gives toxic players the power to ruin games—the requirement of individual cooperation does.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Hmm alright, I'm more with you than I was before about teamwork vs solo potential. I still worry that they are just two sides of the same coin, but I understand what you're talking about.

MMR and matchmaking are fucked. People who get autofilled get matched as though they are playing at the skill level they have in their main role, severely dragging their team down by no fault of their own. And MMR is still simplistic like the ELO system. The ladder isn't a good way to measure individuals' skill, so they get matched according to an inaccurate measurement of their skill and the game ends up being lopsided. This happens WAY too often.

Ifneth1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm alright, I'm more with you than I was before about teamwork vs solo potential. I still worry that they are just two sides of the same coin, but I understand what you're talking about.

MMR and matchmaking are fucked. People who get autofilled get matched as though they are playing at the skill level they have in their main role, severely dragging their team down by no fault of their own. And MMR is still simplistic like the ELO system. The ladder isn't a good way to measure individuals' skill, so they get matched according to an inaccurate measurement of their skill and the game ends up being lopsided. This happens WAY too often.

It’s more that if a fed player is a raid boss who can present a skill matchup to 2-3 coordinated players in solo-queue, then that guy randomly farming the jungle on his team just matters a lot less.

Unfortunately, the Elo system is the only fair way to measure ability. Skill tracking with stats only leads people to game the system and put their scores before wins. A 12/0 Kha’Zix might not flash-smite Baron if it meant losing his Perfect KDA buff.

I’m interested to see where Riot takes positional matchmaking. I see its potential for abuse, but I also see its potential for success. Season 9 will be exciting. That said, maybe I’m just too nice and tilt-proof, but my off-role experiences have been almost uniformly good. I was autofilled Top, picked Poppy into Vlad, and not only won the lane but also won the game. When autofilled Support, I pick Braum or Sona, survive lane while protecting my Marksman, and then make big plays in team fights. It’s kinda refreshing to play something a little different without having to consciously choose to.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

It’s more that if a fed player is a raid boss who can present a skill matchup to 2-3 coordinated players in solo-queue, then that guy randomly farming the jungle on his team just matters a lot less.

Alright, I can see the good in that.

Unfortunately, the Elo system is the only fair way to measure ability. Skill tracking with stats only leads people to game the system and put their scores before wins. A 12/0 Kha’Zix might not flash-smite Baron if it meant losing his Perfect KDA buff.

I think that if it is made indirect enough it would be too difficult for people to know how to pad scores. Or it could be made so that the only ways to work around the system would be really obvious, and Riot could just make it punishable to cheat the system.

I’m interested to see where Riot takes positional matchmaking. I see its potential for abuse, but I also see its potential for success. Season 9 will be exciting. That said, maybe I’m just too nice and tilt-proof, but my off-role experiences have been almost uniformly good. I was autofilled Top, picked Poppy into Vlad, and not only won the lane but also won the game. When autofilled Support, I pick Braum or Sona, survive lane while protecting my Marksman, and then make big plays in team fights. It’s kinda refreshing to play something a little different without having to consciously choose to.

I'm excited to see it too. Also good on you for being flexible, the game needs more people like you.

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