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Sacrificing jungler for a support top lane is pretty fun

KoKoboto··2 votes·490 views

At least for me, enemy team suffers. Started trying this strategy after jungler on my team messed up and picked Braum as a support but we managed to stomp the game really hard harassing enemy top laner ridiculously early on and winning 2v2s with enemy jungler.

Having another support on a team in general is just so game changing, that much more utility becomes very noticeable very quickly. Ideally you wanna go for supports that can harass and kill like Bard, Karma, or Braum from my experience.

As you play top you gain ward control over the whole top side jungle and can roam mid for ganks easily. I find the strat works best with a play maker in mid lane as well. When enemy jungler comes to gank you should win the 2v2 if you have been zoning out properly. By mid-game once you get their top tower down (should happen really early) you can be a roaming support and ward everywhere.

Even if the enemy bot lane is ahead you should win 2v2 if they swap considering most top lane champions spike sooner.

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For the Bard game we were doing really well and I was making a lot of plays mid but our bot lane fed too hard early and I started racking up deaths later on by forced dives.

Of course tell your team before you try it. Also I feel that you really want a support that can dish out damage. I imagine that two tanky dudes being up will have a very hard time carrying unless you create a really substantial lead.

14 Comments

Dokueki Kenshin2 votes

Nightblue did this a while ago and provided proof of concept. If you have two tanks with decent CC and at least one has good engage (Taric/Leona), or if you run a second ADC/support top lane. It can definitely work. The jungler would either be forced to camp lane, which would be harder due to more consistent vision coverage, or power farm, giving the lanes the chance to ramp up and snowball.

eaglei32 votes

The people saying this is easy to counter as a top laner, have you ever fought against this? It is not that easy. Back when towers didn't have bonus armor and lane swaps happened, you would unfortunately get into this situation rarely.

If you are not on the right champs with decent sustain or AoE/ranged attacks to get CS, you are not going to be able to do much against it. Sure you will collect occasional CS under tower, but it will be very minimal. The duo pair will also do their best to deny you exp as well which isn't hard for them to do with their lane placement.

As top, you have two options with your jungler.

  1. Just survive and hope jungler snowballs themself and other lanes.

  2. Hope you can find a weakness in their lane placement and get a counter gank. What makes this tough is minions should always be in the favor of the duo in this setup.

Now with spellbook rune, you can actually run this and not miss out on smite.

KoKoboto1 votes

Oh damn never thought about running smite with this strat! I'll definitely try that out sometime.

TheProfezzor1 votes

I don't see this working. Maybe in low elo where your top player is simply bad but all he has to do is farm under tower and miss some cs here and there, depending on champ he can all with with jungle gank and win the 2 v 2 especially vs a bard support who I also believe is garbage in low elo. Really the only reason I see this working is b/c it is low elo and people don't know how to cs under tower.

KoKoboto1 votes

Try CS'ing under tower as a low range champion while getting harassed...? In EVERY game I was tower diving early on. You can't just sit back and let them farm. That's what low ELO Caitlyns do, they shove under tower but don't try to harass or don't damage the tower. With a support top you zone, harass under tower, hit the tower. You should be getting the tower ridiculously early if you're not spending time killing the enemy under tower.

If you're not killing them you're giving your laner a substantial CS lead or getting the tower.

If you don't wanna play Bard play Karma or Nami or any other aggressive support?

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

{quoted}

Try CS'ing under tower as a low range champion while getting harassed...? In EVERY game I was tower diving early on. You can't just sit back and let them farm. That's what low ELO Caitlyns do, they shove under tower but don't try to harass or don't damage the tower. With a support top you zone, harass under tower, hit the tower. You should be getting the tower ridiculously early if you're not spending time killing the enemy under tower.

If you're not killing them you're giving your laner a substantial CS lead or getting the tower.

If you don't wanna play Bard play Karma or Nami or any other aggressive support?

I get that, but a good jungler will turn this.

Assuming you push super hard, he's going to be level 3 at his tower, while you're both level 3, right when the jungler is looking to gank.. And you're pushed up. All the top laner has to do is start a fight ( they don't have to be capable of winning it) and force you to take a tower shot or two while the jungler pinches. It's basically two kills, no questions asked.

Rinse and repeat. The enemy top will have a level lead - the most important thing to a top - and all they have to do is start a fight + get a gank every single time you get next to their tower.

KoKoboto1 votes

You'll win 2v2s always because the enemy laner should be low on health, experience, and you'll have advantage with ignite or exhaust. + The crowd control and high level damage supports have early game. If you're trading under tower and taking tower shots you're not playing it properly. If you're pushing to tower constantly and not harassing you're not playing properly. The support should be same level as the enemy laner, your laner should be one level up.

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

Your enemy top is only going to be low if they're bad. A competent top is going to recognize the no-win scenarios, back off, and just soak xp while minimizing damage to themselves.

Basically all of this is based on your enemy top laner being bad, which is a pretty poor plan. If you're playing basically any top, with a support, and you shove under tower.. You said you're still going to be CSing the wave / harassing. Literally something as simple as singed / darius / Voli / any top with any sort of noticeable displacement could turn you CSing into displacing you deep into their tower, forcing you to take free damage from them + the tower as their jungle closes in behind you, earning at least one kill with absolutely no recourse.

This strategy would absolutely stomp teams without a jungler and top who are premading together, or who are on the lower spectrum of league players.. But I'd be absolutely comfortable in my ability to beat it were I to duo with a couple of top mains I know.

Malfectious1 votes

If you really want to make it work both supports have to take smite and farm and even counter farm the jungle while the adc gets solo exp and the supp bounces in and out of lane.

gabetheguy1 votes

until bot loses lane and takes 3 drakes because you have no wards in the jungle, alongside no objective control.

but sure! it'll carry you all the way to b4!

BladeSteel1 votes

considering this is kinda like the "chinese boosting strat" that has a 90% winrate in plat-diamond sure it won't carry you! you change what they're doing a little, keeping smite, and all of a sudden it is the "chinese boosting strat"

gabetheguy1 votes

{quoted}

considering this is kinda like the "chinese boosting strat" that has a 90% winrate in plat-diamond sure it won't carry you! you change what they're doing a little, keeping smite, and all of a sudden it is the "chinese boosting strat"

you aren't a chinese booster lul.

BladeSteel1 votes

Reading a bit hard for you? I never said I was.

Meep Man1 votes

My friends and I sometimes do this in casual matches with combos like: Darius Zilean Maokai Soraka Ornn Poppy Chogath Thresh We don't play it like how a duo plays in Bottom Lane, but just capitalize on strong synergies/combos in order to have a really dominant lane phase that helps snowball into late game. Is it viable? I don't know. But it's cool to play something different when you can. Next we are thinking about trying Swain and champions with long and/or easy to hit roots.

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