"let CertainlyT rework every champion in the game" people in 2013

KONO RUBICK DA·Aug 5, 2015·119 votes·4,838 views

hahahahhahahaha, i hope you don't think like this anymore

82 Comments

SasogwaAug 5, 201537 votes

I vow deep hatred for CertainlyT. The guy that designed... Kalista .. "shivers".. among others, not much more healthy champions. And now he's saying Morde is not healthy? and should be put in a duo lane? MORDEKAISER IS THE MOST HEALTHY CHAMPION IN THE GAME. 0 CC and 0 mobility, how can it get anymore healthy to play against? --' Meanwhile , the champions he created are the raw definition of unhealthy. That guy should have been fired a while ago already.

And I don't think Morde bot's gonna work. The only harass he can put out is his nerfed E. His Q doesn't even waveclear anymore. Either he's able to generate sufficient shield to tank through the opposing adc+supp hitting him, and it's gonna be a lane with no interaction whatsoever, kinda like someone with low damage trying to deny a Nasus from stacking. Or he's gonna get bullied out of lane, will have a hard time to farm, will be overall a liability to his team. And if an ADC is needed, where is the ADC gonna go? top? Please no, keep the cancer out of toplane, for fck's sake... Vayne Quinn top, vade retro !

KONO RUBICK DAAug 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I vow deep hatred for CertainlyT. The guy that designed... .. "shivers".. among others, not much more healthy champions. And now he's saying Morde is not healthy? and should be put in a duo lane? MORDEKAISER IS THE MOST HEALTHY CHAMPION IN THE GAME. 0 CC and 0 mobility, how can it get anymore healthy to play against? --' Meanwhile , the champions he created are the raw definition of unhealthy. That guy should have been fired a while ago already.

And I don't think Morde bot's gonna work. The only harass he can put out is his nerfed E. His Q doesn't even waveclear anymore. Either he's able to generate sufficient shield to tank through the opposing adc+supp hitting him, and it's gonna be a lane with no interaction whatsoever, kinda like someone with low damage trying to deny a Nasus from stacking. Or he's gonna get bullied out of lane, will have a hard time to farm, will be overall a liability to his team. And if an ADC is needed, where is the ADC gonna go? top? Please no, keep the cancer out of toplane, for fck's sake... top, vade retro !

certainlyt hates melee i think, when you see darius he countered melee champions and kalista.. don't even need to say it

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 5, 201531 votes

Morde can be super oppressive to melee and the way shield works really limits the champions capable of laning against him...Still CertainlyT has no right to say that when Yasuo does similar things to poke champions...

NarasimhaAug 5, 20157 votes

MORDEKAISER IS THE MOST HEALTHY CHAMPION IN THE GAME. 0 CC and 0 mobility, how can it get anymore healthy to play against? --'

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. He's basically an AP Darius, absolute hell for any melee laner to go against.

I GANK LANESAug 6, 20152 votes

i wouldn't say hes completely toxic but a good morde will make ANYONE laning against him hell.

Photos of GhostsAug 6, 20151 votes

Toplane ADC is bruiser ADC. If you want a real ADC go mid

Indominus BladeAug 5, 201513 votes

CertainlyT makes the best champions and reworks, so I would like that.

Vistha KaiAug 5, 201528 votes

You'd be correct if you stopped at "champions".

I mean... he wants to make an ADC out of Morde, what the hell?

Indominus BladeAug 5, 201514 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qnI4OwHi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T14:11:13.643+0000)

You'd be correct if you stopped at "champions".

I mean... he wants to make an ADC out of Morde, what the hell?

What is wrong with that? For so many seasons of competitive league of legends, bot lane has had a Marksman bot. Why not add some more strategy? I would like to see some Bruiser action going on botlane in LCS.

KONO RUBICK DAAug 5, 201525 votes

[{quoted}](name=Indominus Blade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qnI4OwHi,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T14:26:44.054+0000)

What is wrong with that? For so many seasons of competitive league of legends, bot lane has had a Marksman bot. Why not add some more strategy? I would like to see some Bruiser action going on botlane in LCS.

the idea is fcking good, but it's bad for 2 reasons

-melee can't farm bot, riot needs to adjust their itemisation and implant item 3840 and item 3430 in SR -morde rework is destroying his waveclear, and his E damage has been guted making his poke down from 10/10 to 2/10 giving him hard time bot lane

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20156 votes

See, the thing is, Morde of all melees actually can farm bot because of his shield (especially now that his E gives % max shield, you can top up almost immediately off a single wave). He'll no longer give any f""s about being vs ranged harass since he has a potent shield and now a heal too!

I don't like the way his W works now (kind of useless imo), but making him the "anti-ADC juggernaut" seems like it will actually work.

I don't like that that's all they're letting him be, but it isn't going to be unviable, because he can do so much to make a standard ADC lane cry, from out-leveling, out-sustaining, out-pushing, and having access to much more potent all-in because of his free level bonus. That and if he kills either Dragon or your ADC (which seem like the logical outcome to having a strong anti-ADC bot with crazy level 6) then say goodbye to your tower, and maybe your inner tower or midlaner too.

In fact, the only thing I think Morde needs to be perfect with these changes is to have W be castable solo, just at reduced damage and without access to the heal or MS. With that change alone, Morde instantly becomes much better off, since he still ins't oppressive early game in a solo lane (E's damage is much lower now, Q is much lower early, W deals reduced damage, but he can actually solo lane still because of his stronger shield) and when he's duo-laning, he isn't left without an entire ability just because his support roams without him.

The more I've thought about it, the more the idea of making Morde an anti-ADC bot laner seems like a stroke of genius (although it might not be done quite right at the moment).

JAGMAGAug 5, 20152 votes

see how well that shield holds up against my vayne or even cait

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20155 votes

So you know how big the difference between fighting an ADC with a Doran's blade and 80 AD and an ADC with a BT is? In case you don't, it's pretty massive. Now think about Morde's shield. It is functionally a BT shield based off of his abilities. Of course, BT shield never really compensates for getting poked in lane, but it makes a huge difference since it not only offers higher initial durability, but also very good sustain. Morde's health costs are now very low, and only on 2 of his abilities, meaning that between his shield sustain and actual health sustain from W and R, he will almost never budge out of lane from just poke, especially if he gets himself a gunblade (which itself offers more sustain than BT). If you build the new Morde the way they seem to want you to (mix of health, AP, Mpen, and Resistances) he's going to be incredibly durable while still dealing a lot of damage.

EDIT: Rather than Vayne or Caitlyn being strong against him, I actually feel like Ashe will be much stronger than either since she has great disengage, kiting, and sticking power (unlike Caitlyn, who is only ok at it), while being long ranged and not at near as much risk of being within Morde's range (like Vayne is). She takes the pros of both champs together and the cons she has are irrelevant versus a Morde.

JAGMAGAug 5, 20151 votes

the thing is (im an adc main) vayne does true damage shield wont help you. cait has both range and guaranteed crit along with insane kiting and decent burst on abilities ashe would probably be good because of her slows thou trist could also be very good if you can time your e with the going down of his shield. heck even sivir would be good since hes melee and bouncing blade +q would destroy him it would make him have to use his shield for farming which then it would be down for a gank which hes already vulnerable to.

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20156 votes

Ok, You seem a bit confused, so I'll clarify how these things work for you.

First: True damage (even % HP True damage) has to get through his shield before it can damage his HP, so that is not a Vayne specific advantage to bypass his shield.
Second: His Shield has no cooldown and is never "down for a gank".

Yes, being melee in a predominantly ranged lane won't be a walk in the park, but the nearest example to Morde as a bruiserish anti-ADC, the beloved Urgot , has been proven to be a very viable option at times, and after enough tuning is currently in a relatively healthy spot. Both champs have passives that compensate for their short range and inherently higher risk from poke (damage reduction or a consistent shield), both have strong bullying tools of their own (high offensive poke from Urgot, strong wave clear, pushing, and level 6 all in from Morde) and both are designed to want to build tanky while still dealing damage. If anything, the new Morde will be healthier than Urgot as a bot laner.

NemeBroAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ok, You seem a bit confused, so I'll clarify how these things work for you.

First: True damage (even % HP True damage) has to get through his shield before it can damage his HP, so that is not a Vayne specific advantage to bypass his shield.

Second: His Shield has no cooldown and is never "down for a gank".

Yes, being melee in a predominantly ranged lane won't be a walk in the park, but the nearest example to Morde as a bruiserish anti-ADC, the beloved , has been proven to be a very viable option at times, and after enough tuning is currently in a relatively healthy spot. Both champs have passives that compensate for their short range and inherently higher risk from poke (damage reduction or a consistent shield), both have strong bullying tools of their own (high offensive poke from Urgot, strong wave clear, pushing, and level 6 all in from Morde) and both are designed to want to build tanky while still dealing damage. If anything, the new Morde will be healthier than Urgot as a bot laner.

http://champion.gg/champion/Urgot/ADC

Yeah Urgot is doing so well right now, lol.

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20151 votes

Viable at times

Yeah, Urgot is a mess of a champion, but for a little while at the beginning of the season before the meta shifted to only favor Sivir and Kalista, he was considered a very good pick (actually a counter to kalista) he's very hard to play (I personally suck at him) and he didn't catch on because his skill floor is so high that a lot of people who saw the pros use him didn't stick with him (meanwhile the Urgot mains out there are actually incredibly good).

My point wasn't that Morde should be like Urgot, my point was that having a short ranged bruiser carry has been proven to work in the past and Morde is set up to do it even better.

NemeBroAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Viable at times

Yeah, Urgot is a mess of a champion, but for a little while at the beginning of the season before the meta shifted to only favor Sivir and Kalista, he was considered a very good pick (actually a counter to kalista) he's very hard to play (I personally suck at him) and he didn't catch on because his skill floor is so high that a lot of people who saw the pros use him didn't stick with him (meanwhile the Urgot mains out there are actually incredibly good).

My point wasn't that Morde should be like Urgot, my point was that having a short ranged bruiser carry has been proven to work in the past and Morde is set up to do it even better.

"Niche" is another way of saying "bad in all but the most situational of circumstances".

I have no doubt that it is entirely possible to do well with the new Mordekaiser. It is also entirely possible to do well with Olaf or Dr. Mundo. I'm saying that he's still almost certainly going to be fucking garbage in most cases.

His problem has always been that he has trouble actually getting in on people. Now, not only is he even MORE immobile (and no being sent bot with a CC-heavy support doesn't fix this past laning phase, he has always had a support or someone else on his team to help him get to targets), but he is being encouraged to build... what? Three, four, maybe five different stats? He needs HP and AP, probably also AD, and some resistances, and maybe magic pen, but good luck fitting that last one into your build.

edit: You can sort of disregard the support thing I mentioned in this post. I am really tired and didn't realize I already posted about that to you.

JAGMAGAug 5, 20151 votes

that win rate drop of after 125 games da fuk X.x

JAGMAGAug 5, 20151 votes

were are you getting that about having to go threw his shield? ive played vayne into the current morde it dosent do shit to protect him unless their changing it to a health shield instead of a standard shield. also idk how there changing it again (i assumed they were just buffing how much it shields for) but his current shield does go away if you damage him he cant pop it right back up i read his update notes i dont recall anything about constant shield.

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20154 votes

"Health shields" and "standard shield" serve the same function on morde. In fact, the only reason they still have it as his resource bar instead of as part of his total health bar is so that it's more clear to the morde player how much actual health they have left. It has always been like that and if Vayne is bypassing it with her silver bolts that's a MAJOR bug.

What I meant about his shield never being down for a gank is that his shield has no cooldown if it breaks, it exists as long as he's damaged something with his abilities to replenish it. Basically, if you used Sivir's Q on him and it broke through his shield, he could cast E on you and some minions and immediately have more shield again.

JAGMAGAug 5, 20152 votes

maybe its a bug then i know i just played agisnt a morde last week and his health went down a good bit wile his shield was still up from my silver bolts proc

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20151 votes

Yeah that's definitely a bug then.

NarasimhaAug 5, 20152 votes

That.. would acutally work well for the Morde. In every case except for Caitlyn and her range. Because if you take time to poke Morde, then

You're sacrificing farm. Morde has his E to keep up his farm.
You're taking minion agro, meaning you'd be getting just as much damage as him.
Unless you're committing to your poke, it won't be enough to make a dent. I know, I've done Morde top vs Vayne and Quinn.
He has a heal now. That alone makes a difference.

Mind you, I'm not saying he'll be the new amazing bot lane of choice. But I'm going to reserve judgement until I try it.

PKnowledgeAug 6, 20151 votes

especially now that his E gives % max shield, you can top up almost immediately off a single wave

Man, E give 15% max shield for each champion hit. You actually get less shield than before when hitting a creep wave, because passive now convert 25% of damage dealt instead of 35%, and damage dealt is nerfed. Even if you manage to get both champions and the entire wave in your E, you won't go above 40% of your shield with it, and that's only 1/10 of your max health.

And you're still spending health to use it. So no, the shield is not stronger than before.

junglerboy16Aug 6, 20151 votes

Ok.

Dammit Riot I tried to be optimistic about these changes, why do you have to make it so hard?!?

PKnowledgeAug 6, 20151 votes

Ikr... I really liked the idea too when I first heard of this. But that's a nerf no matter how I read those changes, and unless the shield is actually better, it will be hell for Morde in botlane :/

T RexHasTinyArmsAug 5, 20151 votes

Ah but he can force baron after any dragon past 20 min. He just walks over and lets the dragon fight baron while him and his team zone the enemy and don't tank baron at all.

Stars ShaperAug 5, 20156 votes

He's not making an ADC, his core will be still tankyness and AP (with some AD put in)

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qnI4OwHi,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-05T14:27:44.690+0000)

He's not making an ADC, his core will be still tankyness and AP (with some AD put in)

He is making an anti ADC. Which he is not. And he won't be.

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20151 votes

Since when has Morde not been an anti ADC style champion? Your goal is almost always to kill their AD carry for a ghost anyway, so making him more of an "anti-ADC" seems like a fully logical extension of that pattern.

Also, he does look like he'll be pretty effective against an ordinary ADC+Support style lane since his shield and E help him deal with poke really well and he can sustain himself and his ally with W, while having pretty immense all-in damage, and he will get to 6 first every time for a guaranteed advantage.

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20152 votes

And how many times do you actually succeed in killing the carry? Any Morde main knows how HARD AS FUCK is to kill the adc with no cc and a slow ass movement speed. Which hasn't changed at all in the rework. Totally the opposite. He is slower now. And he will have less armor now. Tell me how is he supposed to kill the adc.

"Buht mah cc hevy soopport" Surprise, they might have one too. Even most adcs have some kind of cc. How the fuck are you gonna get to them? Jinx get on mah chomps! Mordekaiser item 3070

Do you people even think before you write?

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20152 votes

Huh... It's almost like pairing him with a CC heavy support is a stroke of genius if that's the one thing he's always lacked.

Yes it'll be hard to get in range to kill the ADC, even with a CC support, but if it weren't how balanced would that be? That's like saying "Morde requires skill to kill the ADC, so he'll never be viable, the only solution being to give him a guaranteed way of getting on top of them and murdering them whenever he hits 6 first (which he always will)."

I'm definitely not saying this is exactly how Morde needed to be reworked, but at least give it the benefit of the doubt for now. For all you know, having a MS steroid on W will be all he needs to close in when his support CC locks the ADC. This could still be a catastrophic failure, I'm not saying it can't be, but I will say you being an absolute pessimist about it is just foolish and arrogant that you assume to know everything about it where even if you have a PBE account you can't have played more than a handful of games on new Morde yet, which is not enough to give any sort of reliable verdict on its success.

NemeBroAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Huh... It's almost like pairing him with a CC heavy support is a stroke of genius if that's the one thing he's always lacked.

Yes it'll be hard to get in range to kill the ADC, even with a CC support, but if it weren't how balanced would that be? That's like saying "Morde requires skill to kill the ADC, so he'll never be viable, the only solution being to give him a guaranteed way of getting on top of them and murdering them whenever he hits 6 first (which he always will)."

I'm definitely not saying this is exactly how Morde needed to be reworked, but at least give it the benefit of the doubt for now. For all you know, having a MS steroid on W will be all he needs to close in when his support CC locks the ADC. This could still be a catastrophic failure, I'm not saying it can't be, but I will say you being an absolute pessimist about it is just foolish and arrogant that you assume to know everything about it where even if you have a PBE account you can't have played more than a handful of games on new Morde yet, which is not enough to give any sort of reliable verdict on its success.

You are aware that supports existed in games with Mordekaiser in them already, right?

So how does making him even more immobile than he already was and forcing him bot lane helping him? At best he might have better kill pressure in the bot lane now (I doubt it though, since most of his damage was shifted to a purely fucking melee ability), but solo lane Morde didn't need to have as much kill pressure because he was arguably the best farmer in the entire game.

So in team fights, actually killing the enemy ADC is harder than ever.

junglerboy16Aug 5, 20151 votes

Yeah, in team fights it will be harder, which is a solid concern I wasn't actually talking about.

What I was saying is that during lane phase when all that stands between Morde and an enemy ADC is the enemy support, it will be a lot easier for him to get a kill than a solo lane where he has no CC.

NemeBroAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, in team fights it will be harder, which is a solid concern I wasn't actually talking about.

What I was saying is that during lane phase when all that stands between Morde and an enemy ADC is the enemy support, it will be a lot easier for him to get a kill than a solo lane where he has no CC.

That might be the case.

So what, though? Best case scenario is that he will turn into a worse version of current Darius, who is also an immobile motherfucker who can kill the shit out of his laning opponent and proceed to be kited all game and be useless in team fights. Darius, at least, can be a solid peeler if any punk bitch ass assassin tries to dive his carry. The fuck is Mordekaiser going to do? He will be less mobile, have less (read: no) CC, and will frankly probably do less damage and/or be more easily bursted down, depending on what he's building.

The rework is a bad joke.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

No. You would be wrong with both.

Vistha KaiAug 5, 20154 votes

CertainlyT's champion designs aren't bad on their own or innovative, but there's a problem with balancing them later - in most cases it makes the champion in question a complete trash, because The Balance Team isn't able to balance a cube on a flat surface.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20153 votes

Not only because of that, but also because certainlyT makes overloaded and hard to balance champs. Look at kalista, look at yasuo, they scream overloaded from mile away. Yasuo had to be nerfed really hard to make him balanced because of his kit.

Vistha KaiAug 5, 20151 votes

He was balanced way before they removed half of his kit.

He's nigh-unplayable now. You can't say that's what you call a "balance".

Dextix LTAug 5, 20152 votes

He was balanced way before they removed half of his kit.

Are you fcking serious? He was balanced?

......................................................................

He's nigh-unplayable now. You can't say that's what you call a "balance".

He is playable and incredibly strong if played right. However it is incredibly hard to play with him now. He is not freelo anymore as he was on the day of his release.

Vistha KaiAug 5, 20153 votes

I know, I'm crazy for saying something like that, am I not?

He isn't "incredibly strong if played right". He is "incredibly strong if played aganist a complete idiot".

In which case, that is true for every single champion in this game.

There is not even a single reason to pick Yasuo over any other mid or top lane champion and every champion with AoE CC does his job better.

And if you want the Windwall, you can always pick Braum, who can also win his own lane, without his jungler sitting there 24/7.

bradAug 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qnI4OwHi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T14:11:13.643+0000)

You'd be correct if you stopped at "champions".

I mean... he wants to make an ADC out of Morde, what the hell?

remember that patch where they literally nerfed morde and in the context they said "morde is not an ad champion"? i would go find it but im lazy

T RexHasTinyArmsAug 5, 20152 votes

makes as much sense as bouncy dead rabbit and her pet support that she sometimes gets upset with and throws at people.

Photos of GhostsAug 6, 20151 votes

No, he wanted to make him the first officially supported kill lane. The ADC goes somewhere else.

Only Play DariusAug 5, 201511 votes

CertainlyT reworks Mordekaiser . First thing he does is add 2 passives to his active abilities lmfao.

He definitely makes fun (to play) champions and I really really want to like him, but throw me a bone here man, you're making this hard.

MatezoideAug 5, 20154 votes

He also ranted that Mordekaiser is impossible to balance as a solo laner because he is so unhealthy lmao.

Ah well, at least Mord is crap tier now, so players wont have to deal with him releasing another broken abomination.

OverpoweredSoapAug 5, 201510 votes

"And when everyone's overpowered as af, no one will be."

JAGMAGAug 5, 20156 votes

thats how dota 2 does it seems to work

MalzaharAnyLaneAug 6, 20151 votes

DOTA2 is perfect, except for the problem where it has the same issue League does.

In pubs, if you're ahead, you split push when you should be forced to group as 5 when ahead. Split pushing should generally be a from-behind tactic, not a maintain-a-lead tactic.

The only other issue DOTA2 has is that the matchmaking is somehow consistently worse than League's despite taking longer (and League's has been steadily getting worse since S3 or so) and surrenders are treated like an option reserved for the elite only, peons who pay for the game by buying flair items aren't considered worthy or smart enough to end a game by themselves early. (League won't allow it before 20 minutes when games can be decided by minute 12 or so and snowballed from there, but because they nerfed snowballing so hard a game won at 12 minutes will still take at least 35 minutes to end due to the aforementioned encouragement of splitpushing to maintain a lead)

Other than that, DOTA is consistently in a better state than League when it comes to balance, but that seems to be more attributable to luck and allowing depth, and even then they still make some boneheaded balance decisions from time to time. They're just slightly better at reverting their stupid decisions that make it to live instead of further band-aiding them like League tends to. League's prime appeal is accessibility, but if they continue balancing things primarily based off what Diamond and above abuses, they are going to hit a tipping point in the next two years where things start tapering off in terms of paying/playing players. Face it, the game is /really/ old and hasn't done anything significant to keep people who are fundamentally tired of Summoner's Rift or disagree with the direction the balance team has taken the past two seasons in particular, and the loss of those players has hurt severely.