can we please do something about shitty players in bronze?

Glîtchy·Aug 15, 2019·1 votes·1,287 views

seriously, just shove them all down to iron so I don't have to have them fuck with my climb, I can't carry those who flip out over dying 2 times

14 Comments

Darkdemon653Aug 15, 20193 votes

You have 20 games played. Keep playing. If you deserve to be higher than where you are, you will climb.

KoiyakiAug 15, 20193 votes

U think dying 2 times is annoying? Wait till someone dcs cuz they died 1v1 when their jungler was on the otherside of the map and somehow couldnt teleporty to help them.

As u go up in ranks peoples mechinics get better...slightly...but the personalities stay the exact same. So don't expect much

GlîtchyAug 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

U think dying 2 times is annoying? Wait till someone dcs cuz they died 1v1 when their jungler was on the otherside of the map and somehow couldnt teleporty to help them.

As u go up in ranks peoples mechinics get better...slightly...but the personalities stay the exact same. So don't expect much

I mean as in my adc disconnects because they died twice

KoiyakiAug 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean as in my adc disconnects because they died twice

again, that doesnt change when u go up in rank.

twice i had a top laner who died 1v1, tped back, died again, then dced.

People are jerks, case end point.

KanzlerAug 15, 20192 votes

But bronze is where shitty players should be. Iron is for those who are truly truly lost.

Kai GuyAug 15, 20191 votes

Shitty is relative. They are just under the average level of skill. Iron is mostly for making folks In bronze to gold feel better about their ranking and be less likely to rage quit the ranked system out of frustration, on paper at least.

overpoweredscrubAug 15, 20191 votes

they should make a wood and cardboard rank too. The amount of bronze players before iron was made is a large portion of the player base. We need to spread those players out even further

Deep Terror NamiAug 15, 20194 votes

Players are matched according to MMR, not their current Rank. Adding tiers does very literally nothing to affect who you are matched with.

overpoweredscrubAug 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qleXdVky,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-15T19:13:26.553+0000)

Players are matched according to MMR, not their current Rank. Adding tiers does very literally nothing to affect who you are matched with.

You are right about the mmr. But you are wrong about how adding tiers does literally nothing. I bet you anything, if you add cardboard and wood, then it will make getting to diamond that much harder and keep lower skilled players at a lower rank.

If your logic of more tiers doesn't do anything, then we might as well just make a bronze and challenger rank. Bet you anything it will make a big difference.

Kai GuyAug 15, 20191 votes

Lets pretend Riot Copy and pasted the Scale from Arpad Elo. So lets make the starting value 1400. That's your New account and lets call it a range you find inside silver 3 So your scale goes 200 points for a class interval. 1200 would be B3. 1600 G3. Iron3 is 1000 Plat3 is 1800. we added wood. Ok.. so that's what Iron4 used to cover, so... 800 is w3. cardboard. 600 =Cardboard 3. This makes 0 impact on diamond 3 being 2000. Literally O impact on MM or upper divisions.

All adding a lower Tier does is makes players think they are better then X divisions below them. Its a player perception, no impact on MM. Nami is correct and knows more about the topic then you do.

Players are more likely to quit if they are in the "bottom" That's about all the impact made. Just perception related mate. And given how difficult it is to demote with riots system having a massive Demotion protection.... well you just see puddles of players in division 4 that have MMR of what's below them. Like you have in every season they use the league system.

overpoweredscrubAug 15, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qleXdVky,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-15T20:20:16.926+0000)

Lets pretend Riot Copy and pasted the Scale from Arpad Elo. So lets make the starting value 1400. That's your New account and lets call it a range you find inside silver 3 So your scale goes 200 points for a class interval. 1200 would be B3. 1600 G3. Iron3 is 1000 Plat3 is 1800. we added wood. Ok.. so that's what Iron4 used to cover, so... 800 is w3. cardboard. 600 =Cardboard 3. This makes 0 impact on diamond 3 being 2000. Literally O impact on MM or upper divisions.

All adding a lower Tier does is makes players think they are better then X divisions below them. Its a player perception, no impact on MM. Nami is correct and knows more about the topic then you do.

Players are more likely to quit if they are in the "bottom" That's about all the impact made. Just perception related mate. And given how difficult it is to demote with riots system having a massive Demotion protection.... well you just see puddles of players in division 4 that have MMR of what's below them. Like you have in every season they use the league system.

If there is a cardboard and wood division, then that means if I am silver and I see a player on my team that is cardboard, it will give me better reason to believe that the match making is fucking bad considering a cardboard player shouldn't be playing in my games at my level. You can say mmr all you want but it doesn't mean shit. Cuz sometimes I get paired up with someone who is way below my mmr but they are put into my team because we happen to have 1 plat player or 2 people who are premade. I am not talking about ranked, im talking about normal games. Dont give me that bullshit that matchmaking is doing a good job. The only good thing match making is good at is getting you a match as fast as possible at the cost of making it a very uneven game. If one side is slightly better that's fine, but if one side just steam rolls the other while the other is just noobs, or feeders it's really bad matchmaking. I don't care if mmr is what determines matchmaking, i just think a diamond player should never have an instance of queing with an unrank or bronze doesn't matter the mmr. That part is my opinion and it makes sense too.

Kai GuyAug 16, 20191 votes

All your doing is highlighting your complete lack of knowledge on the topic of MMR systems.

Was I unclear? Using my arbitrary values in the same example. Explain to me with any clear logic, How does calling 800 Cardboard, or Iron, or Bronze make any Impact on Diamond = 2000. This does not make the climb more difficult. Hell, Link me your main's OP.GG. Lets look at your ranked history. We can check for mismatches and class interval gaps if you really want. You wanna claim that your being flooded by iron 4 players in silver games? Aight. Please provide that account. Lets look at it yea?

You quite literally made that claim."if you add cardboard and wood, then it will make getting to diamond that much harder" Back it up, or admit your wrong.

So, your talking about normal... The game mode that has literally 0 restrictions on who you can play with. That seems to upset you. So Your asking for.... Riot to make normal literally identical to Ranked? Why? That's all kinds of pointless.

I don't care if mmr is what determines matchmaking, i just think a diamond player should never have an instance of queing with an unrank or bronze doesn't matter the mmr. That part is my opinion and it makes sense too.

So...Normal blatantly have separate MMR from Ranked. So some one who wins back to back 1 million games streak in Normals…. would still be unranked. You think that dudes gonna be silver MMR if they played ranked ques buddy?

You want the same MM for ranked in normal and same MM restrictions for Normal as ranked? Why have normal then? Like at all. Bit redundant there eh? Why bother with multiple ques? Whats the point of a non competitive que that has the same regulations as the competitive que forcing them to be identical in function?

You can say mmr all you want but it doesn't mean shit. I mean... MMR =Match making Rating and its the single metric MM uses to build games yet your claim is that it don't mean shit?{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}

The hell am I supposed to do here when you don't understand the basic concept? Need help understanding it... ok fine. I can help with that. First off I need an answer. Why the FUCK do you think the singular value used by MM means "shit"?

I will hazard a guess here.

If one side is slightly better that's fine, but if one side just steam rolls the other while the other is just noobs, or feeders it's really bad matchmaking

I get it. You don't fully understand the concept of an objective rating system. Ok.. its pretty simple. Gameplay is unrelated to the rating. Its probability and proven results. Mean and Mode my friend. Win V loss, Or as Mr Zuckerburg did it, Cute V ugly. Any Binominal event can be applied to a Elo system. The content is irrelevant, The system will be self correcting off proven results and when the results break expected deviation you see the system adjust its expectations, that's when it breaks σ expectations. Like the math is confusing as shit but the core concepts are pretty easy logic to follow.

MM is shit from snowballing? MM wont give a fuck about snowballyness of a game. That's gameplay. The two are unrelated. Now its true that blatant mismatches are expected to be 1 sided, but the gameplay is not remotely a factor in MMR So close games could still by snowball as all fuck and MMR would work just fine. Objective ratings my dude, You don't look at something and say,OH that's a 1500 Point move. You say. 1500 points will beat 1300 points 75% of the time. If you cant achieve that? Your rating shifts to match the probability expectations. Your winning 90% vs 1300? your gonna be 1700. Note, 1300 1500 1700 are all arbitrary values used for example. They don't matter at all. Could be any numbers, all that matters is the # value gaps match the probability model. Deviations shift your score. TLDR. its a self correcting system.

So.. You know very little about MMR this is clear by your posts. Nothing wrong with that, I am a dick when I post but honestly that's just frustration speaking and please don't take it personally. I do want to help, so dets start with Elo. That way your not ignorant as shit trying to tell folks "This is how things work"

Step 1. Arpad Elo's Adjustment formula. Rn=Ro+K(W-We). What variables in that formula do you need me to explain to you? I own the god dam book on the topic. In a worst case if you ask something I don't understand well I can just screen shot the relevant pages and post it as a link.

I really hope you don't bitch out on me. I will invest as much time as your willing to spend helping you get this and I hope my abrasive attitude is not to big of a turn off. Just burnt out on the fucking stupidity I constantly see on the boards and your on the wrong end of that frustration tonight.

Kai GuyAug 15, 20191 votes

One correction. Duoing is off tiers so it can impact who your playing. It wont break the MMR system or Ladder thou so you can discount the mismatches generated by it because at some point deadweight is un-carryable in comparison to the Mode average of median skill for a Rank.