http://static.eclypsia.com/images/lol/champions/Skarner_Splash_0.jpg
in what world Skarner IS BROKEN?
Impale (R) total AD ratio down to .4 from 1 Crystal Spires (Passive) Attack speed bonus lowered to [39-90%] from [43-160%]
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/11/1124-pbe-update.html#balance
meanwhile lee sin 100-0 you at lvl 6 and the best jungler in the game is allowed? riot is crazy rofl
Kitten of Evil48 votesWhat's a Skarner? I feel like he was OP for like a single patch, and since then, I haven't seen him once. Like, he's so rarely played that people still ask "what are those crystal things?"
Kuroi869 votesHe's still ridiculous, but only when you know what you're doing.
On the other hand apparently Lee Sin is face roll easy according to the forums.
A Miss Fortune5 votesLee facrolls harder than Skarner. Everything but Lee's Q (Which has an extremely faster projectile speed, low cooldown, high damage, involves a high ranged dash that can be used after hitting the skillshot in a fairly long span of time while also revealing the target even if stealthed) is all point and click/steroids. You can argue that Skarner was pretty much only one skillshot too, but try to play Skarner. If you miss that one skillshot you might as well AFK.
And at least Skarner can't build 5 tank items including Sightstone and still end up 100-0'ing the 20-0 enemy Vayne in less than 3 seconds.
Kuroi8621 votesI have no problem with disliking Lee Sin. But stop with the bullshit.
build 5 tank items including Sightstone and still end up 100-0'ing the 20-0 enemy Vayne in less than 3 seconds
No champ can do this, period. There are reasons to dislike Lee Sin, but lying and making stuff up do NOT help your argument, they hurt it.
Everything but Lee's Q is all point and click/steroids.
Again no. His only steroid is on his passive. W is sustain, E is CC meanwhile his real damage is packed into his Q and R.
I'm not saying Skarner is great and Lee is trash, Skarner is a strong duelist if you know what you're doing meanwhile Lee is still an annoying generalist that fits into every team comp because Riot is hesitant to shove him into a niche.
Noam Braumsky4 votesI have no problem with disliking Lee Sin. But stop with the bullshit.
No champ can do this, period. There are reasons to dislike Lee Sin, but lying and making stuff up do NOT help your argument, they hurt it.
Again no. His only steroid is on his passive. W is sustain, E is CC meanwhile his real damage is packed into his Q and R.
I'm not saying Skarner is great and Lee is trash, Skarner is a strong duelist if you know what you're doing meanwhile Lee is still an annoying generalist that fits into every team comp because Riot is hesitant to shove him into a niche.
What's the base damage on Lee's ult now? 600 at rank 3?
Kuroi867 votesWhat's the base damage on Lee's ult now? 600 at rank 3?
It is indeed. Now if you look at the damage Lee Sin can do with no damage items, you'd see it sits at 1140 +8% missing health.
Take the champ with the lowest health at lvl 18 Mini 
at 1645 and simply based on abilities would end that fight with 414 health. And with Lee Sins base AD being only 116 you're looking at 5-6 auto attacks to finish the job and that's IF doesn't have any life steal.
No, Lee Sin with only defensive items can't 100-0 anyone. NO CHAMPION IN LEAGUE CAN DO THIS.
Noam Braumsky2 votesIt is indeed. Now if you look at the damage Lee Sin can do with no damage items, you'd see it sits at 1140 +8% missing health.
Take the champ with the lowest health at lvl 18 Mini
No, Lee Sin with only defensive items can't 100-0 anyone. NO CHAMPION IN LEAGUE CAN DO THIS.
Doesn't Lee have an execute on his Q?
I'm not saying Lee should be trying to duel anyone with full hp with no purely offensive items, but most things he would be likely to buy as a defensive option like 
and 
certainly wouldn't hurt his odds. I'm not saying if Lee used all his spells and nothing else on that Gnar he'd die, but if Lee wants that Gnar to die, he'd have the cdr and mobility to do it even with only tank items.
Kuroi862 votesDoesn't Lee have an execute on his Q?
8% missing health. Makes it a bad idea to walk up to him and start a fight, though if he has to use his Q to get on top of you, then it goes to waste.
LankPants2 votesNo, Lee Sin with only defensive items can't 100-0 anyone. NO CHAMPION IN LEAGUE CAN DO THIS.
By technicality Nasus, Veigar, Thresh and Sion with a Titanic Hydra all can.
falldown0103 votes[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjtof1gp,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-23T22:26:18.842+0000)
What's a Skarner? I feel like he was OP for like a single patch, and since then, I haven't seen him once. Like, he's so rarely played that people still ask "what are those crystal things?"
i love skarner, but hate lee so much skarner requires so much more skill while lee can just land 1 q and get a kill,meanwhile skarner has to make sure his e hits to secure it ; and then continue to deal damadge
Malicious Metal33 votesSeriously, what's the deal with nerfing balanced and underplayed champs in this patch? -.-
KONO RUBICK DA10 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjtof1gp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T21:34:39.586+0000)
Seriously, what's the deal with nerfing balanced and underplayed champs in this patch? -.-
because we want lee to do big plays$
Pierce The Veal6 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjtof1gp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T21:34:39.586+0000)
Seriously, what's the deal with nerfing balanced and underplayed champs in this patch? -.-
But muh skarners were building differently than we wanted them to.
Dominick Destine22 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjtof1gp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T21:34:39.586+0000)
Seriously, what's the deal with nerfing balanced and underplayed champs in this patch? -.-
I think you mean nerfing underpowered champions and buffing overpowered ones.
Anidan7 votes53% win-rate (on champion.gg, as an average without using mains as the main source) doesn't sound underpowered, to be honest. Fairly low playrate, because the meta really isn't suited for him right now and other champions are just exemplars of broken, but there's not much that can be done about the former (nor should there be, because not everyone needs to fit in every meta).
I will question a nerf, but that's because middle of the pack doesn't warrant nerfs. Nor does it warrant being called underpowered.
I'm thinking everyone is calling the top 4-5 in every role 'over-powered' and the rest 'under-powered' without any middle ground right now. Skarner isn't some unusable monster, he's just not a great fit for the current meta. I'd say he's balanced and underplayed, like MM said.
Noam Braumsky8 votes53% win-rate (on champion.gg, as an average without using mains as the main source) doesn't sound underpowered, to be honest. Fairly low playrate, because the meta really isn't suited for him right now and other champions are just exemplars of broken, but there's not much that can be done about the former (nor should there be, because not everyone needs to fit in every meta).
I will question a nerf, but that's because middle of the pack doesn't warrant nerfs. Nor does it warrant being called underpowered.
I'm thinking everyone is calling the top 4-5 in every role 'over-powered' and the rest 'under-powered' without any middle ground right now. Skarner isn't some unusable monster, he's just not a great fit for the current meta. I'd say he's balanced and underplayed, like MM said.
Skarner definitely isn't underpowered from what I've seen. But I'll be damned if he's getting nerfs before 
and 
.
manliestdino2 votesJax nurfs... wut.
Criomhthann10 votesThe item and mastery changes made Jax incredibly strong.
manliestdino1 votesOh right I'm an idiot.
ProfDrDeath1 votesCalm down. For one, it is only the first patch of the new PBE cycle.
Secondly, there is a nerf for Jax and Yi in there...and for Xin, Irelia, Kayle and many others: Fervor of Battle now only stacks on champion hits.
Thirdly, Kindred is a stupid champion...but I question if she is really nerf-worthy if I look at her current performance. http://champion.gg/champion/Kindred The changes to Warrior (moving it away from ArPen) and Last Whisper-line items have rather hurt her, as she has good base damages, but crappy AD scaling.
Noam Braumsky1 votesCalm down. For one, it is only the first patch of the new PBE cycle.
Secondly, there is a nerf for Jax and Yi in there...and for Xin, Irelia, Kayle and many others: Fervor of Battle now only stacks on champion hits.
Thirdly, Kindred is a stupid champion...but I question if she is really nerf-worthy if I look at her current performance. http://champion.gg/champion/Kindred The changes to Warrior (moving it away from ArPen) and Last Whisper-line items have rather hurt her, as she has good base damages, but crappy AD scaling.
50% win rate with with 6.82% play rate seems pretty good to me.
ProfDrDeath3 votesFor Kindred? Tbh, that looks like a mostly balanced champion to me. Do you want more nerfs for her right now?
ProfDrDeath2 votesI would even doubt that the meta is currently not suited for Skarner. Tanks really like the current meta, after all.
GelsominoKiller2 votes
You know, i'd expect a champion who has been defined by Riot themselves "the bane of ADCs" to perform good in a patch where killing the ADC is the only one thing that matters.
I agree Skarner is absolutely not weak, but for sure he's nowhere near the top junglers or meta picks of the moment. Nerfing him and leaving the nerver-dying Elise and Lee Sin untouched seems like a completely flawed balancing mentality.
FacerollKatarina13 votesI need to be honest, this is probably the smallest nerf i've seen in a long time... Its stupid but its so small it won't even have an impact
KONO RUBICK DA6 votesI need to be honest, this is probably the smallest nerf i've seen in a long time... Its stupid but its so small it won't even have an impact
nvm, they just gutted him with the new pbe patch
RetroRage969 votesYou have a right to your opinion, and I am not disagreeing with you, but please refrain from describing an action situation such as this one as "retarded." Thanks.
Kuroi8614 votesI need to be honest, this is probably the smallest nerf i've seen in a long time...
Not trying to be a smart ass, just saw this and it made me chuckle because it reminded me of this...
Vayne V5.20: Base attack damage reduced to 50 from 53.
FacerollKatarina8 votesLOL you don't sound like a smart ass at all thank you for that
BakedLotion1 votesI need to be honest, this is probably the smallest nerf i've seen in a long time... Its stupid but its so small it won't even have an impact
lol cause removing 60% total AD ratio is small. That's atleast 100-200 dmg
Das Kappatal8 votesPack it up boys, Skarner is dead.
Level 1 Q - exactly the same Level 2 Q - 0.01 AD Level 3 Q - 0.02 AD Level 4 Q - 0.03 AD Level 5 Q - 0.04 AD
This change is completely irrelevant before level 4, which is the only time Lee Sin is ever going to willingly fight Skarner 1v1.
Between level 4 and 9, it's 2-6 less damage per Q. That's a pathetic nerf. It barely impacts his clears, thanks to his spires giving him massive attack speed and mana regen, and it's almost irrelevant in ganks since you're dragging your target into your team.
It's only a serious damage reduction if you're building Skarner offensively, like Warrior > Black Cleaver, in which case you're doing about 15-20 less damage per Q after level 9. Given that all the good Skarner players are going Cinderhulk > Trinity Force > tank, it's a significantly smaller nerf than that - closer to 8-12 damage.
There's not much point in getting mad about Skarner getting nerfed and blaming Lee Sin, given that Skarner's winrate is 5% higher, it's above his average against Lee Sin, and this is in a meta which favours Lee Sin (early-game oriented, snowbally, good for AD fighters but not assassins).
Slamurai Jack8 votesThat was both logical and well presented. Enjoy your incoming downvotes.
iamleburk3 votesEhhh winrate is a little skewed. One of these champions is clearly easier to do ok on than the other, so for non-jungle mains who are forced to play jungle, a Skarner pick will almost always work out better for them than a Lee Sin.
True, it is a very small nerf, but i really didn't feel like Skarner was too powerful lately.
BasedJarvan4204 voteslmao, rito never gonna hurt their golden lcs boy lee.
Criomhthann4 votesLee is a part of the untouchables. They aren't supposed to be nerfed because their kits allow for the LCS Big Plays that keep the E-Sports money flowing. This is why after Sion and Sej and the items they both used got nerfed into the ground, Riot said it was fine because Champions like Lee Sin needed their time to shine too.
RyzeRework2 votesthats why elise kindred reksai and eve are played more then leesin at high level games? leesin also has a lower winrate and hes not broken hes skill reliant thats why leesins winrate is high at 125 games + so that bein said leesin is also in a weak place because of the new item changes, there are so many enemy champions that can 100/0 u at level 6 but lategame he is so weak the fact that he was rarely played at worlds and u say hes untouchable means you dont understand the game
Criomhthann3 votesthats why elise kindred reksai and eve are played more then leesin at high level games?
All Regions (Masters +)
Lee Sin Solo: Win (48%) Pick (52%) Ranked 5: Win (56%) Pick (44%)
Kindred Solo: Win (37%) Pick (11%) Ranked 5: Win (54%) Pick (7%)
Elise Solo: Win (40%) Pick (16%) Ranked 5: Win (42%) Pick (12%)
Evelynn Solo: Win (68%) Pick (4%) Ranked 5: Win (66%) Pick (4%)
Reksai Solo: Win (57%) Pick (19%) Ranked 5: Win (59%) Pick (14%)
U WOT M8
u say hes untouchable
Are you new?
Valor Bot3 voteslol, Riven's health regen is also getting buffed. Sometimes I wonder....
MarhsallLee672 votesHer one semi-weakness is getting fixed?
K.
Hierarch of Aiur3 votesLee is the best jungler in the game? Hue, if you don't count:
RetroRage964 votesThere is no "best jungler." All with a situation and purpose.
Hoodwink3 votesIn what world is Skarner BROKEN?
A world still in the Juggernaut patch.
Ulquiorra9951 votesFor starters, how about we revert that stupid %HP damage buff on his ultimate which was completely unneeded?
RyzeRework1 votesYou mean the buffed that made his winrate above 40 percent
Ulquiorra9951 votesHe was never far below 50%.
Also, this clearly shows Riot's blatant favouritism. "Guys, we will intentionally keep champs like Sej and Sion undertuned because they have had their time in the spotlight, and it is time for other picks to shine to add some variety. Oh, and Lee wasn't numero uno pick one patch so we are buffing him. What? He's in 1 out of 3 games again? Sorry, we care about variety only if it doesn't mean that we have to bring Lee down a notch."
RyzeRework1 votesHe got a small buff and it was a good reason and it makes sense it's not that a random liss buff that you heal yourself when ulting yourself that doesn't make sense. But if ur kicking a target into ur team it should do more damnage and people still rarely do it. I'm just tired of everyone saying leesin is broken with a sub 50 percent winrate. Hell nothing is broken unless it's above 55 percent 60 percent gets hot fixed
falldown0102 votes[{quoted}](name=Godlike Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjtof1gp,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T14:51:31.907+0000)
He got a small buff and it was a good reason and it makes sense it's not that a random liss buff that you heal yourself when ulting yourself that doesn't make sense. But if ur kicking a target into ur team it should do more damnage and people still rarely do it. I'm just tired of everyone saying leesin is broken with a sub 50 percent winrate. Hell nothing is broken unless it's above 55 percent 60 percent gets hot fixed
still the skarner nerfs are unasked for, they are tryng to make his ult useless wich is kinda the point of skarner, pulling carries or annoying yasuo's into your team and kill them
so they cant do tremedous damadge, but honeslty if you compare lee sin and skarner
lee obv needs nerfs, and skarner is perfectly fine,
skarner has a dive risk, lee doesnt, he can get in and out
lee need atleast 1 risk, if he messes up while ganking like lets say a longer cooldown on his shield or something
RyzeRework1 votesI don't know why smarter is getting nerfed I think he's strong but I also played him pre juggernaut and ran over people with him lol. Lee has a way in and he can ward hop out but it's very easy to be cced and his cool downs are pretty long if u don't build any CDR on him but another problem is his q W e takes all his energy so he has to stay in the battle to get the auto attacks off to get them back. I think Lee isn't OP but I feel like everyone is just mad because they can't play leesin and if ur playing against a good Lee sin it can be very frustrating but that goes without saying that if ur good with any champion your ganna do good with them
Ulquiorra9951 votesWhat 'good reason' was that? 'Not being #1 pick for one patch' isn't a good reason.
Besides, his ultimate already was a potent nuke and a massive utility tool on a miserably low cooldown. Why the fuck does he need to be rewarded for being unable to reach the backline by using a point-and-click spell on a tank to nuke them anyway?
Also, Skarner's ultimate is receiving a significant damage nerf too. Because we don't want something that already sends the priority target into your team to do a shitload of damage, am I right? 
RyzeRework1 votesGood reason is he still has a low win rate even after buffs and still isn't top tier jungler or played competitively skarner ult is way more effective then a Lee kick. You literally supresses and pulls a huge movement speed buff
