What's the point of Orianna's passive?

Linna Excel·Jul 17, 2015·9 votes·5,529 views

I was talking to people the other day about whether or not the new Nashor's was a good idea on Orianna. One thing just about everyone said to me was that the item and her passive are both traps and that Orianna should always be casting and never AA. These were people in gold, plat, and diamond too. One specific reason for that is they said that Ori can cast while moving and as such, you should never stop moving to AA.

So I can't help but wonder, why does Orianna have a passive which tells people to AA yet better players are telling me that autoattacking is the worst thing you can be doing with Ori. It just doesn't match up. They also told me nashor's teemo does more damage with AAs than Ori does.

What's equally baffling to me is I got a pentakill once using a nashor's build that focused on mostly AAing and making use of that passive.

35 Comments

DeynaTaggerungJul 17, 201511 votes

As a mid laner you should be always auto-attacking between spells. I dunno about nashors on her (not knowing enough about the champ or the item) but that passive is very useful for adding that extra damage in a close fight. If you can sneak even 3 autos into a fight that's 150 extra damage at lvl 1 with no ap. More later in the game, and is often the difference between a kill or a death, I don't know what they were talking about.

thinking manJul 17, 20158 votes

if somebody tells you to never AA then they are fucking retarded since it's god-tier for trading in lane

MiraweaveJul 17, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phane Sorter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qjb3fwft,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-07-17T18:11:26.079+0000)

if somebody tells you to never AA then they are fucking retarded since it's god-tier for trading in lane

This.

I think he means lategame though, in which case the actual answer is that you should be autoattacking whenever it's safe to do so.

Earl EulrichJul 17, 20157 votes

her passive is not a trap, i can´t count how many times i got a clutch kill on her by autohitting. The passive is there to put some of her power in sth. that is not an invincible ball with quite some range, that can zone/kite rather well), it really rewards good oris who do not only position the ball correctly but Ori herself aswell.

OverpoweredSoapJul 17, 20156 votes

It's to help her in the laning phase, I believe.

Kinda helps with farming minions. But it's to throw in a little harass when her spells are down.

It is kind of a weird passive for her though.

FooDangJul 17, 20156 votes

If you're not auto attacking when the opportunity arises then you're not taking advantage of your kit. Think of your AA's as a no mana/low cooldown damaging ability because...it is. Its an ability that all champions possess but not all summoners utilize correctly.

Origami KaijuJul 17, 20155 votes

What's equally baffling to me is I got a pentakill once using a nashor's build that focused on mostly AAing and making use of that passive.

Woahhhh

It's so weird you mention this. Powerofevil from Unicorns of Love just got a Pentakill with Runeglaive+nashors on Orianna just a few hours ago.

Linna ExcelJul 18, 20153 votes

He did?

I'm watching it now.

MiraweaveJul 17, 20154 votes

It's incredibly good early in the game, and while it's sometimes too risky to autoattack lategame, there are times when you can and it will contribute a lot of damage in those situations.

Skia AsteriJul 17, 20154 votes

Because without it we would have The Ball as the champion with its pet Orianna .

ChaoticPineconeJul 18, 20154 votes

I think your friends mean you shouldnt be committed to autoattacking. An ADC can get away with autoattacking and taking some damage in return, since they can lifesteal it back up. You are almost just as squishy but without the sustain. Buying a Nashors on Ori makes you committed to autoattacking or else its just a gold dump, and that means youre spells do less damage.

Especially considering the # of items you can buy. What would you get rid of to make room for the Nashors? Ludens with the passive which does more AoE than the Nashors? The Zhonyas for the clutch saves? The Deathcap with the multiplier? You kinda need Boots/Void/Morello. And even Rylais gives more AP, gives health, and gives you more kiting potential. IMO, even Lich Bane would be better, just for the extra burst.

And Teemo does 50+30% on hit from his E. Orianna only does 50+15% up to 60+18%. And Teemo also has better base stats in terms of AD and attack speed, plus you also get the benefit of his poison DoT for every auto you do hit. And that doesnt include his passives attack speed. Buying Nashors on him would be better than Ori, but even then i feel like its a gold dump. Ive done a lot better with Lich bane on Teemo, since he gets a free auto reset with his Q - which is another thing: you cant do as quick of an auto-spell-auto combo with Ori, since the drawback of being able to cast while moving is that it doesnt cancel animations.

EDIT - about the UoL using runeglaive/Nashors Ori. I think it was a decision against the teamcomp. Enemy team had Gragas, Lucian, and Ahri. I saw 4 ults catch one person (support twice, ahri once after jarvan locked her down, ahri once in lane) and 2 people once (gangplank and rek sai). I think he knew going into the match that against such a mobile team, he wasnt going to get many hugeults off. On top of that, GMB didnt have anything to threaten her with a gangplank top and gragas support. The only champ that could threaten her was Ahri, which was why Maokai was on peel duty most of the game instead of diving. In this case, UoL got away with the runeglaive/nashors Ori because the enemy team was squishy with no backline threat. However, im willing to bet that if he got 3-4 person ults off, he would been able to delete people anyway

Silents429Jul 17, 20153 votes

Tell them they are morons, It's wonderful in the laning phase for farming and harass.

IcyPepperJul 17, 20153 votes

Lichbane is superiour, tbh.

Thing is, Orianna is mostly casting spells late-game. During laning, you want to trade with aa, but lichbane is better for this because those kind of trades tend to be short. Not to mention the ms boost and mana that comes with lichbane, both of which are nice for Orianna.

AbyssphereJul 17, 20152 votes

It gives her a laning phase and is situationally useful later on. You can't prioritise your autos late game but if it weren't for her passive she'd be so, so bad early.

Titanium70Jul 17, 20152 votes

Well 2 things: First of all not AA'ing in laning is a bad idea, you´ll always need your AA´s to win trades, and this is the reason for Oris passive! In earlygame when Ori Manacosts are high and her DMG is low she is still capeable of winning lanes due to her passive.

Second: Teamfights, AA'ing in a Teamfight means (besides rooting your selfe) you´re to close - Ori can cast from alot higher range that`s why everyone says "Nash is bad" and "dont use your passive" buying Nash is only worth it if you use your AA´s all game long not just in early or to clean up after a Teamfight (which BTW is the second use for her passive low but save DPS even without Mana)

In LoL you´ll have most success fullfilling the role you´ve choosen as good as you can - as Ori you´ll quickly realize that your job is blowing UP squishys and/or crushing Team´s with shokwave - there´s just no time to AA while you´re doing this! (maybe one, but than you use LB instead of Nash :P).

Linna ExcelJul 17, 20151 votes

Well this is how I play Ori and it works for me so far. Q, W, and R are great for softening up a team from range. After that, I can use Nashor's and Hurricane (because on hit) to quickly mow down weakened opponents and my E gives me a little tank to do so.

Earl EulrichJul 17, 20152 votes

funnily enough...right now UoL is playing an actual nashoors Oriana.

I still think it´s pretty silly, ap and maybe a lichbane is a lot stronger in teamfights.

theragingnerdJul 18, 20152 votes

why haven't they posted power of evils penta yet

PoisonedPeaceJul 18, 20152 votes

No real diamond would tell you to not auto attack with orianna. Her passive is amazing for trading in lane.

AutoreactiveCD4Jul 17, 20151 votes

Its what makes me hate laning against a good ori. After laning though I see it like this: spells are more important and your main damage, but if you can auto safely and your abilities are on cooldown its still good.

The WhamboozlerJul 17, 20151 votes

It helps her last hit and lets her trade when her skills are weak. Later on she should NEVER be that close. Your friends are right to tell you so.

ChortleJul 17, 20151 votes

Her passive is to help her between cooldowns. Her main source of damage is from her abilities while her auto attack passive ensures she's not completely useless after a combo.

Nashors is not worth it on her. There are so many items Ori can use efficiently because she is so flexible with her abilities. The attack speed is something she wont' be using enough to warrant picking it up.

There are off-builds that focus on her autos, but they simply aren't very good. She won't be able to survive burst or cc from auto attacks alone. It will take her too long to kill enemies. Upgrading her abilities with AP items is a far superior option.

Serge THE GREATJul 17, 20151 votes

It also prevents her from being a decent ADC. She has high damage on that passive if you built attack speed, but because she has terrible AD scaling, it puts a stop to her being able to go ADC efficiently while still helping her last hit. If she had good AD scaling, you could keep your ball on Orianna for bonus armor and MR and maybe even go toe-to-toe with several of the game's ADCs.

CindikleJul 17, 20151 votes

Her passive is to justify her low base/scaling on her abilities. If you want to max your damage on her you have to AA. This is why trying to kill someone with her abilities alone will quickly train her mana. She just doesn't have it.

This allows her skills to all be fairly strong with CDR with their utility. Since all of her power is offset in other places.

Nashers is a noob trap because enough your have to AA to get the most out of your damage and make up for your low ability damage. It's still very dangerous for her to do so. Since you cannot ensure you will be able to AA all that often it's best not to build for it. Nashers is best for champions who are AA'ing the whole time. She AA's when available.

In short: Her passive helps offset the power/utility of her abilities. But you should never build around it or rely on it.

KingKong2350Jul 18, 20151 votes

That's so funny you mention getting a pentakill when you built her that way. So have I. I always thought it was kinda fun

Sightless66Jul 18, 20151 votes

So I can't help but wonder, why does Orianna have a passive which tells people to AA yet better players are telling me that autoattacking is the worst thing you can be doing with Ori.

The reason for this discrepancy is because in the past (emphasis on past), Nashors has been kind of a mediocre item unless you are heavily based around your autoattacking. Ori doesn't get a huge percentage of her damage from autoattacks, so Nashor's wasn't great on her. You could do more with other items, even if autoattacking was still a good idea with her. It could work, but was usually overshadowed by other items.

However, Nashors got a buff recently, and now serves as a very effective AP item for it. It gives 80 AP when pretty much every other item gives 80-100, instead of giving 60 when other options give 120. That's great. It has even been used in pro games to great success (it earned a pentakill). Make full use of it.

Summonerrr 1Jul 18, 20151 votes

Seems like there'd be better passives out there than a half-asstical AS buff for a zone control caster like Orianna

NorthernDruidJul 18, 20151 votes

If you can get the reamaining CDR elsewhere, Nashor's CDR can free you up for going tear->Archangel's instead of Morellonomicon or Athene's for mana your mana needs.

And Archangel is really good after the recent buffs. Seraph's Embrace easily has the highest AP on one item, save deathcap.

EraenisJul 18, 20151 votes

the passive is really usefull against some lainers, since in combination with your shield it sets you up for some really efficient trades. I used to put an early second point into the shield and just aa harrass sometimes.