[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TT0hHT0z,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2016-01-25T23:18:18.460+0000)
No. I'm saying they're not mutually exclusive.
Then I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. Function and balance cannot be separated.
If A champion has a 100 damage ground-targeted skill and another has a 100 damage linear skill shot, the result of both is exactly the same: 100 damage. How you do that damage is different.
Yes... you are proving my point for me.
And that's the essence of what Repertoire is asking. What do people want Twin Fangs to do
Once again, that would fall within the purview of function, which is linked to balance.
Function is a component of balance, no argument. But balance is not function.
Sure, I will concede that.
Damn you spell check. (>_>)
Huehuehue.
It is straw-man to an extent, but I used it for a purpose.
Champions that are balanced at a high level, aren't always balanced at a low level (and vise versa). In general, Riot focuses on high level balance.
Yes, that's correct and that is the core premise of my argument.
Let's take a hypothetical low skill floor high value champion.
"skill floor" is a buzz term that is meaningless once we talk about Diamond or even Platinum. We are not talking about players that comprise Bronze Chaos.
The players I am talking about know how to play the game and thus, your hypothetical scenario is automatically flawed/dismissed.
At high level play, there are fewer mistakes to punish and better coordination means those conditions are easily and quickly established.
The thing is; It should go without saying that when we're talking about anything related to balance, we are talking about "high level play" or just "play".
It is completely unreasonable to make even the slightest changes to these characters based on people that do not know how to use them.
Should we max the speed limit of all cars to 40 kilometers per hour because some people drive too quickly while drunk? that would be insanity.
So now we have a champion who wrecks almost everyone at low levels, but is weak at high levels. How do you balance them?
Buff them so they are able to perform adequately.
(At "high levels" as you would say)
If you only use high level play and buff them, they become a 1-pick wonder at low level.
What's your point?
Let me use an example from the old DotA days; There was a character called Strywgyr the Bloodseeker. His ultimate was called "Rupture" and caused a player to take more damage if they moved for 5 seconds.
Newbs would panic and run away, causing them to take enormous damage.
Actual competent players would stand their ground and fight the comparatively weak Bloodseeker, taking minimal damage from Rupture.
A terrible developer would nerf Strygwyr because the bronze equivalent players would make atrocious decisions.
A good developer would buff Strygwyr because competent players would make good decisions leading to an inferior performance by Strygwyr.
And that's what they did. NEVER balance around people that do not know how to play the game.
Not really. Let's have another hypothetical scenario.
We both face a champion. I have perfect reflexes, but don't know anything champion - I get wrecked. You know every facet of that champion down the the pixel count, but have no reflexes - You get wrecked.
That's a very flimsy hypothetical that relies on you heavily stacking the deck to make your point, but alright let's see where you are going with this.
We both hit a ceiling based on our lack of something.
Actually no, in your scenario my lack of skill is intrinsic whereas your lack of "knowledge" is remedied by even basic levels of research.
It was a bad example because there is no equivalent analogous for League of Legends. LoL is not a twitch game like, say, first-person shooters, nor is it a heavy burden-of-knowledge game like MMOs.
It's a tactical game that fits somewhere in the middle, with a low requirement for both... more contingent on decision making and team synchronization.
The top teir of the player base will have both aspects, but both aspects aren't necessarily valuable when discussing balance. This is the primary reason I don't disagree with your claim. However, your claim would shut out other potentially equally knowledgeable voices.
But your argument was flimsy... your analogy was atrocious.... and your conclusion is therefore baseless.
Not everybody plays ranked.
What's your point?
Not everybody that is ranked plays SR. Champions aren't exclusive to SR.
Riot has stated in no uncertain terms that the game is balanced around Summoner's Rift.
You're limiting the breadth of feedback more than the champion's breadth of play.
Again, what's your point?
Should we ask a homeless man how to solve the federal deficit of 2016? surely his opinion should matter as much as the educated man that reads the newspaper every day on his day to work as a stock broker.
But Diamond+ is not the only source of knowledgeable players
Correct, that is why I said "Plat should be considered" as well.
And not all Diamond+ are necessarily equal.
Yet again, what's your point?
Statistical significance is on my side. You are arguing against statistical significance which is automatically wrong.
Individual players, however, don't fit that black&white structure.
Arguing outliers is a good way to reveal you have no argument to present. Maybe 1 person out of 5,000 survives falling off of a cliff, does that mean jumping off of a cliff is not fatal?
A bronze who plays only Cassiopeia will provide feedback near or equal to a diamond that has never touched her.
False.
There is a high probability that the Diamond player has at least played against Cassiopeia... this in conjunction with his understanding of basic and advanced (But I try to keep advanced tactics out of it) game knowledge puts him far above the Bronze.
Additionally, focusing on one level of play can result in a lop-sided experience overall
Based on?
making low-level feedback important
That is a rather large leap in logic. I'd go so far as to say it's a non-sequitur.
diamond level player may not be ranked diamond
"Diamond player may not be ranked diamond"
Does not compute.
You seem like a nice enough guy, but your arguments were pure sophistry from beginning to end. You were the best of the responses that opposed me, but because I am correct, you are arguing a fallacious position and thus, presented flimsy arguments.
I've made my points pretty clear, gg.
. (In other words, I don't care)