riot why are you taking a look at popular champs that are on the rework list first?

agbudar·Jan 14, 2015·16 votes·20,682 views

and not the unpopular ones like

cuz most of these listed don't work or will never work in any meta that you might come up with. they actually NEED it

im glad you are taking updating champions seriously cuz its a serious matter but trist was really not that much in a need of it then this list here.

take a look at sion for example as a champion he is SOOO much better then he used to be ok sure his ult needs a litle tweak and not be so flippin easy to dodge but in general id say you did an awesome job on him and it makes me really excited what you have in store for us with champions that are on the list.

btw i have a request can CertainlyT do the rework on mordekaiser?

92 Comments

RiotMeddlerJan 14, 201512 votes

Some of the key questions we ask when deciding which champions to do updates on:

**How badly does this champion need a visual/audio update? **

The more out of place (or out of date) they currently look/sound the more reason we have to rework them. A champion that gets played a lot and really needs a visual upgrade is particularly significant - since they're in games a lot they'll be seen a lot and therefore contribute substantially to the overall average visual quality of the game. Tristana's a good example of this - she's a popular character, who's also really easy to acquire (Facebook or 1350IP), with quite a few visual/audio upgrade needs.

How problematic is this champion's gameplay?

Champions with a lack of counterplay, that result in degenerate lane picks, that suppress interesting play etc can be rework priorities because they make the game worse overall. Xerath and Soraka are good examples of this category.

How much untapped potential does this champion have?

These are characters with cool themes that aren't properly executed on, unsatisfying kits etc. Stuff that could be really cool, but isn't, usually for a number of reasons (gameplay+aesthetics+personality for example). There's a good seed of a champion in there, but it's not done right. Sion's the best example of this.

Chromatic EagleJan 14, 20154 votes

So then why are Yorick and Urgot so low on the priority list? Lee Sin fits the second question, and to be blunt, there are a few champions that fans considered to have received poor reworks based on your standards. Eve, Olaf, and even Xerath.

OnegarionJan 14, 201511 votes

Overall I hear much more positive comments about xerath than negative.

Auz the RipperJan 14, 20151 votes

Those are all from people who didn't actually play and/or like old xerath

Old Xerath was a very hard champion to use effectively so 90% of people didn't but he had incredible power when people did put the time and effort in to learning to use him effectively

New Xerath is significantly easier to play so more people do and those people like new xerath But the power and feel of new Xerath has is a pitince, a hallow shell, compared to old Xerath, which old Xerath players hate

And unfortunately for us old Xerath players, we're highly outnumbered by the new Xerath players, so no cares what we think q-q

OnegarionJan 15, 20151 votes

I played old xerath and I like New one so much more. Yea old xerath was harder, but it was a good bit clunkier as well. Its not that no one cares its that you aren't he only voice for old xerath

Auz the RipperJan 15, 20152 votes

I'm not say new Xerath is bad, I play him quite a bit. I just dislike how you don't feel as powerful as you did with old xerath and honestly that could be changed by making new Xerath's animations more powerful looking (mostly his ult)

RiotMeddlerJan 14, 201522 votes

Yorick/Urgot - Both Sion levels of rework in terms of amount of work. We talked a lot about which champion was the best fit for that level of update next and conclusion we came to was Poppy was the best overall choice. Lot of good points in favor of Yorick, and especially Urgot, but Poppy felt like the best choice for the next slot.

Lee Sin - We feel his problem's that he's a generalist who crowds out other picks if you've got a player able to take proper advantage of him. That means the work he needs is a combination of accentuating (or creating) weaknesses (and potentially strengths) and possibly a bit more counterplay. Some of that work at least's going to be an issue of balance, as much or more than rework.

Eve/Olaf - Could do with some work, agreed. I don't personally feel Olaf's too far off being playable, amount he leaves some champions without options when he's strong though's pretty problematic.

Xerath - I'll have to disagree with you on Xerath, I feel his rework overall left him in a pretty good spot. Would be nice to improve the visual satisfaction on his ult at some point though, the current visual effect was designed for a somewhat different style of ult so doesn't sync up well with the feel of the current gameplay.

GiovarcoJan 14, 20156 votes

@Meddler: I agree that Poppy is the most problematic champion and need a rework ASAP. However, as a Urgot player, I fear I'll have to wait another one or two years for his rework. Are my worries justified? I just would like to know, so I resign myself .__.

LoL Ergo UrgotFeb 21, 20151 votes

Me too.

SalidfingersJan 14, 20153 votes

Olaf is an amazing champion and if he does get a rework in his favor i have a strong feeling he will be nerfed in a worst position.

Example EVE.

DrCyanideJan 14, 20154 votes

Honestly, I'm not sure Xerath's ult is even worth using most of the time. His Q feels a lot more satisfying, both in terms of damage and being able to hit a target. An ultimate that never lands may as well never exist.

I'm not sure if changing his ult would be a live balance team or a rework team task. Does it just depend on how much is done?

Linna ExcelJan 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yorick/Urgot - Both Sion levels of rework in terms of amount of work. We talked a lot about which champion was the best fit for that level of update next and conclusion we came to was Poppy was the best overall choice. Lot of good points in favor of Yorick, and especially Urgot, but Poppy felt like the best choice for the next slot.

Why Poppy though? Is it because she's seen play on a fringe LCS team?

agbudarJan 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yorick/Urgot - Both Sion levels of rework in terms of amount of work. We talked a lot about which champion was the best fit for that level of update next and conclusion we came to was Poppy was the best overall choice. Lot of good points in favor of Yorick, and especially Urgot, but Poppy felt like the best choice for the next slot.

in the case of yorrick i played him last season in botlane a lot (he is what got me from s5 to s3) but this was honestly an abuse of champion design

i think a lot of his issues can be adressed when you make a simple fix exchange the secondary effect of E with Q so now Q gives sustain and E gives movement speed. he would still be intact of dealing with ranged but can be managed by melee champs now that he needs to take risk to sustain himself and at the same time this utility change will make him much more viable for endgame as well since he can stick much better to enemies and escape when needed.

SilvenJan 14, 20151 votes

I think Xerath's W visuals should rather be for his ult. It has a cooler sense of "heavenly arcane beam striking you down" while the ult he has right now feels more like he's "gently pew-pewing weird cute small projectiles".

SaltyKrackaJan 15, 20151 votes

On Olaf. My main problem with Smashgizmo's piece of shit is that it basically made Olaf into a champ who doesn't do anything outside of lane. Teamfights? Hah, either get kited or get melted. Sieging? Lolmelee. Getting picks or ganks? With a single slow that is literally the most difficult cc to utilize in the game? And that's not even mentioning the way he's absolutely useless in the jungle these days (thanks, axes in walls!)

Literally the only thing he could do after Gizmo got done wrecking him again was splitpush toplane. Badly.

KesslerCOILJan 15, 20151 votes

The problem with Olaf's rework is that whoever did it, was trying too hard to keep his original kit.
His Q is problematic when easily reset(which is the only time it's good), his E brings a whole lot of problems with scaling true damage and his Ult allows him to completely ignore all CC(this ability just needs to go all together tbh) removing a lot of counterplay and leaving only "Kill him fast or TRY to get away faster"

suckitsummonerFeb 12, 20151 votes

I don't think Yorick needs a complete rework. And I sure as hell am certain that Urgot doesn't need one.

Urgot is extremely fun to play. It's not a point and click champion, which was the reason that Riot gave when they were justifying reworking Sion, and Ryze and Warwick.

And being fun isn't the only reason that justifies him not needing a "complete relaunch". First of all, he only needs balance changes. When he was released he was super strong, and there is a middle term between broken and garbage. And the most important reason for Urgot not need a rework is: "RIOT has to STOP treating Urgot like an ADC!"

If you keep trying to balance a champion to do something he isn't supposed to do, of course you'll fail. It would be the same thing as putting Gnar in bot lane, tag him as "marksman", and then complaining he just gets wrecked by other ADCs and thinking he needs a rework. Urgot isn't an ADC, and I don't understand why can't Riot realize that. Riot realized Teemo wasn't an ADC a while ago, even though he's tagged as "marksman", which made it possible for him to be balanced, because he stopped being looked at as being matched up against an ADC in lane.

Also, about Xerath: I played Xerath since I started playing the game. I did nothing but play Xerath for my first year of this game. I loved it, I got his two skins, and when he got reworked, my skins never saw the light of day again. It looked boring before testing it, but I didn't want to complain without trying him out, but after a week of playing new Xerath, I confirmed my suspissions. Xerath became just straight up boring, no other word to describe him. Anyone that has fun playing new Xerath, I'm happy for you, but I'm certain you never tried, or at least played well, the old Xerath.

I don't approve of reworking champions, but I understand Riot's point about it, and I accepted it. But what I don't understand is why they rework champions that are 2 years old and have nice mechanics, to leave the ones they hate (the point and click ones) wondering around for ages. And I say this because I know about the plans of reworking champions like Fiora and LeBlanc. And while Fiora, even though not old, is a bit of point and click with no counterplay, I absolutely don't understand the idea behind LeBlanc rework. LeBlanc is one of the most highly mechanical champions, which although strong, is not broken. Especially after the silence was removed. There is absolutely no reason to rework LeBlanc, but, and every time I say this it pains me a little, but I've got used to these non-sense ideas from Riot. And it pains me to say this because Riot is the best company in the world, and the company I love the most.

AsothinFeb 26, 20151 votes

Hey,

As a person who mains Urgot (and there is really not many) I thought that you would want to hear an input from such a player to contribute to your update plans. In my opinion Urgot's kit is very fun and there is a lot of potential with item, ability synergies and combos. If played right he is a very good lane bully and can definitely do well late game. You say here that you would like to make some adjustments to this champion so I think this is a good opportunity for me to voice my opinion

I asked a bunch of league players why they don't want to play Urgot. Most people have said that it is because he looks ugly. A visual change to him to make him look more fancy and/or have more flashy abilities with perhaps contrasts of blue would be quite nice and could encourage people to play him. Something to make his play style more pronounced.

When it comes to updating his skill set I really do not think it needs changing like Sion's did as it could potentially break the champion. He is one of the best lane bullies and also a great duelist; playing against him is quite a unique experience especially if you do not have mobility or sustain. If you are going to change anything please keep that in mind. Perhaps his role needs to be made more clear to the players so that after trying him they will not get discouraged (likewise with Yorick he has a lot of potential but people do not know how to play as him resulting in them giving up on further attempts).

When it comes to re-balancing so that he can fit in more with the current meta I would say that his E (Noxxian Corrosive Charge) should make enemies visible for the duration since the Q (Acid Hunter) locks on no matter what even when the enemy is stealth. Having the champion visible would be a nice buff so that the player won't have to be guessing where to put his mouse when he uses his Q. In team fights his job is to focus high priority targets so perhaps more burst synergy with his ultimate would be nice on top of the current additional armor and magic resist (perhaps the ultimate could apply the same effect as the Noxxian Corrosive Charge).

In conclusion, Urgot is a viable champion in the current meta and the changes that are made I suggest small utility tweaks being added to his kit. He should definitely receive a skin update but his main role of a lane bully should remain unchanged as it is quite unique and interesting in the way it is executed. Thanks for reading and please don't break the champion. I am a real fan of old and underplayed champions so feel free to ask me about anything involving this champion I would be more than happy to answer.

Best Regards from, Asothin - EU Nordic and East [email protected]

ZendrôJan 14, 201511 votes

Cause they can't make the LC$ B!GPL@Y$

CenturosJan 14, 20155 votes

Poppy is Soon™, but she's getting a Sion-level relaunch because her current kit is Bad.

RebonackJan 14, 20153 votes

Why aren't Galio and Koggy on that list?

They're in about the same spot Yorick is. 'Balanced' champions that no one plays.

HawndaJan 14, 201527 votes

Leave Kog'Maw alone! :'(

agbudarJan 14, 20154 votes

koggy i can see why but galio? he is pretty good imo just a little bit too "niche"

RebonackJan 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

koggy i can see why but galio? he is pretty good imo just a little bit too "niche"

They're both balanced champions, IMO. They have clear strengths and weaknesses, but those strengths are so narrowly defined and there's so much overlap with champions that are more general in their strengths and less pronounced in their weakness that there's just no reason to pick them.

Yorick has pretty much exactly the same issue. Super-sustain harassy guy. But after the lane phase is over now what? You're just left wondering to yourself why you didn't pick Gnar.

Leave Kog'Maw alone! :'(

Koggy already got messed up by his Q 'buff' that resulted in the rest of his kit eating heavy handed nerfs. The new Q also made him even weaker against soft, highly mobile champions who like to dive him.

DarkenedSoul420Jan 14, 20153 votes

Lol Kog is fine, people just dont seem to understand how to play him and get through his kinda weak early game..leave kog'maw alone!

Rew711Jan 14, 20154 votes

Well, Yorick seems pretty fun now. Its been a long while and I've been playing him and he does seem balanced.

Urgot just isn't a easy pick-up and go choice like others. I like him though and he is TOUGH to beat.

For , I like his kit better than Zac 's at the moment. All he needs is a proper Texture Rebalance (and his 975 RP skin, Lord Mordekaiser, could use some nice updates).

Rinky DinkyJan 14, 20151 votes

Morde is honestly really strong. If they do this DFG removal thing correctly, and give him the compensation he NEEDS, I think he might be at least see a popularity increase.

agbudarJan 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Morde is honestly really strong. If they do this DFG removal thing correctly, and give him the compensation he NEEDS, I think he might be at least see a popularity increase.

you can't balance him for how the meta looks atm give him too much and EVERY mobility creep main will complain they can't make plays (rightfully so) too weak again and you are in the same position. people have said that if morde was in his old state he would be fine and im inclined to agree but they really need to get rid of his ult he has 2 things going for him that are game changers his shield and his ult and his ult literally breaks the game

Rinky DinkyJan 14, 20151 votes

Not really...

You wanna talk about gamebreaking ults, there are quite a few champs to choose from...

StephenizgodJan 14, 20151 votes

The problem with Morde is his Toxic kit. I think he i really fun, whether i get stomped or stomp im pretty much constantly laughing. The problem is his kit is Toxic for both him and his opponent. When he is winning, you feel miserable fighting him, when he is losing you feel miserable playing him. Also since his E ability hits everything in a cone, you end up naturally pushing the wave, he has no CC or Mobility so if the enemy jungler decides to come and gank you usually need to Flash or die. Warding can only do so much against certain opponents. The flip side is if you are winning the enemy jungler is just a double kill for you, specially if you have your ghost.

At best i would like some number changes, i love his kit but it goes too into the extreme of both losing and winning, never in between. If they do a rework i hope they at least keep his R and W as is, i love both of these abilities.

Rew711Jan 14, 20151 votes

I understand how you feel. But every champion should vary, and Mord is no exception. He is one of the few champs that are easy for 1 game but hard to master. In order to master Mord, you should really look into getting some high AP sometimes or lots of health. I don't know which is better, yet.

StephenizgodJan 14, 20151 votes

I think the problem with Morde is he gets countered too easily with simple strategies. Force him to trade and he will push the lane, all his abilities except his ult deal damage to multiple targets. Eventually he will push and just call for a gank, there is not much he can do. Dont let him hit you and poke him while his passive is down or low, his abilities cost health so until he gets WotA (or i guess Gunblade but i dont like that item on him) he cant do anything about being poked. Bait his ult then flash or dash (or just walk) away and he doesnt have his ult anymore and there is nothing he can do about it.

To counter these weaknesses he is given damage (it was a lot in his heyday but now it isnt worth much) that is easy to hit. So if you do nothing about him he will push you to your turret and kill you at the same time without you being able to do anything about it. If you dont know how to deal with Morde then you are going to get crushed even by someone using him for the first time.

Neither of these promote healthy gameplay, either you are miserable or your enemy is miserable.

As for building on Morde, building him tanky means he does like no damage, building him full AP could either work really well or you die instantly. I usually rush Will of the Ancients, it stops him from losing health and if you hit a big wave of minions you gain some back. After that, depending on whether im losing or winning ill get DFG or Visage/Zhonya's, obviously depends on who you fight. Then Rylais because its hilarious... Then Rabadons (sometimes ill build WotG then DFG then Deathcap then Rylais, the order depends on the game). Sorc boots, if i didnt build DFG earlier i will build it now, it is core late game item.

His passive, rylais, and Visage is all i need for health usually.

Chaotic ReksJan 15, 20151 votes

item 3128 not anymore...

agbudarJan 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I understand how you feel. But every champion should vary, and Mord is no exception. He is one of the few champs that are easy for 1 game but hard to master. In order to master Mord, you should really look into getting some high AP sometimes or lots of health. I don't know which is better, yet.

over the years he is my most played champ he falls short either way. as an off tank i feel he does best but since everyone pidgeonholes him into mid he needs to go ap there are much safer and better scaling mages for that job he cant be a tank he has no CC

bruiser he is ok but again tons of champs that beat him on this level. there are simply far too many champions at this point that can easily counter morde but far too few champs that he himself counters.

sure he is anoying in lane but if you simply keep your farm up no one is gonna be threatened by you.

Jungle Lux GodJan 14, 20153 votes

In some cases, some champs that are popular have unhealthy game patterns that need to be reworked into something that is healthier for the game. Gragas was a good example of this: when he was strong before his rework he would either instagib a carry or not really do anything, and his rework not only made him less feast of famine, but also expanded on his gameplay fantasy of being a drunken brawler instead of his current gameplay as a fat mage.

However, many of the reworks done have been to champs that aren't too popular, which ranged from the reworks to Karma, Xerath, Heimerdinger, Sion, and a large majority of other reworks, with Sion being notable for being one of the biggest reworks ever to the point of almost being a brand new champion.

AbodyHUN666Jan 14, 20152 votes

I find it interesting how everyone forgets Viktor, imo he's in a lot better spot. I think many of the unpopular reworks stem from the fact those champs weren't popular before the rework. Sion is in good spot though, his ult steering need a little buff.

AmightyTJan 15, 20151 votes

I was blown away that they actually acknowledged him.

StoningtonJan 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

and not the unpopular ones like

Zillean is still a good pick, he was a pretty priority pick s4 competitive play. Olaf was pretty good early season 4 also in competitive.

Elise and Eve? You gotta be kidding me buddy. You never saw those champs in your games last season? They've been so overplayed it's ridiculous.

SEKAIJan 14, 20152 votes

Olaf already had his rework sadly, yer you should be like "wot that's it?". And the answer would be "...:(".

Evelynn also had hers, she was cool and now she ain't.

I would really kill to see LeeSin gets reworked so I don't have to see him nearly once every game or 2.

cFlameJan 14, 20153 votes

Leave Olaf alone, I like where he stands. I just don't like where Rek Sai stands. (Tanky Yasuo)

SaltyKrackaJan 15, 20151 votes

This is because you're an idiot.

cFlameJan 24, 20151 votes

@SaltyKracka http://media0.giphy.com/media/ZOln4JxCoZay4/200_s.gif No not really.

Adolf GhostlerJan 14, 20152 votes

Shiver me timbers but Gangplank is considered one of the worst champions to pick right now. So please get around to doing something about him. RNG Ulti was just one problem.

ZamiakeJan 14, 20152 votes

I disagree with eveylenn needing a rework. She can solo kats with enough spell vamp and lifesteal.

Also Yorick doesnt need a rework he actually is in need of a nerf / redistrubution of level damage. His early game is too strong while his late game is ass. He is usually a top lane bully. Because that garbage buff they did to his ghost where u cant kill them and if you let them get near you they do a bunch of damage to you

Zilean does need a rework cause his aim botting bs is freaking annoying in bot lane support. Annoying yes. Viable no. A ziggs or a sona easily counters him just got to nuke his annoying butt right out of lane and you will eventually win.

Gp Needs a nerf mainly becuase he has a HEALING Cleanse built in. Eveylenn has a built in cleanse but at the very least it doesnt heal her. Also why the hell does he crit so well?

Also the sion rework was kinda bad. If any ranged champion comes to top lane for any reason he will lose lane no matter what. Even if he ults in on people. All they have to do is dodge or escape then poke him down to nothing again. Even beat a sion on op lane with a vlad the most overly nerfed champion in league

Atrrox needs a major rework. His ult and kit in general dont fit his actual role which is tank. Yes riot intended him to be a fighter but a fighter attrox cant even out sustain a WW with his blood thrist, 21% life steal, and about 30% atk spd buff.

AbodyHUN666Jan 14, 20151 votes

Did you try Sion in the jungle? His ganks are quite good pre 6 even if you just use the Q for the slow/flash burn, and after 6 you can just gank from any angle. Gp is just a ball of stats (movespeed and attack spped boost, crits, poke until you run out of mana) and generally he has little counterplay so he needs a rework. Yorick needs the rework because as he is he is harmful for the game. He wins almost any lane with endless poke and sustain and you can't do anything about it resulting in a bad experience for his enemy and a boring lane for Yorick. Then comes lategame and if the enemy wasn't braindead and didn't die to a poke champ Yorick will be useless since all he has is 1v1 endless poke/sustain. I think Eve is problematic because her invisibility forces her enemies to play a lot more passively since she could gank any moment, so if she is strong enough she will be pick or ban.

ZamiakeJan 16, 20151 votes

On your points to eve i dont think that is true. All u need is to buy a vision ward cause it has true sight and place it allong the paths that get to your lane. If both an adc and support buy one and place in both bushs to their lane then she will be seen. Also they never expire unless they are destroyed. In the long term those maybe cheaper then norma wards to counter her. Its only if they are dumb enough ot only get standard wards is she a problem. Also she has a certain range that is longer then her engagable range that reveals her to all enemy champions.

The only way you wont see her is if you just arent paying attention

agbudarJan 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with eveylenn needing a rework. She can solo kats with enough spell vamp and lifesteal.

Also Yorick doesnt need a rework he actually is in need of a nerf / redistrubution of level damage. His early game is too strong while his late game is ass. He is usually a top lane bully. Because that garbage buff they did to his ghost where u cant kill them and if you let them get near you they do a bunch of damage to you

Zilean does need a rework cause his aim botting bs is freaking annoying in bot lane support. Annoying yes. Viable no. A ziggs or a sona easily counters him just got to nuke his annoying butt right out of lane and you will eventually win.

Gp Needs a nerf mainly becuase he has a HEALING Cleanse built in. Eveylenn has a built in cleanse but at the very least it doesnt heal her. Also why the hell does he crit so well?

Also the sion rework was kinda bad. If any ranged champion comes to top lane for any reason he will lose lane no matter what. Even if he ults in on people. All they have to do is dodge or escape then poke him down to nothing again. Even beat a sion on op lane with a vlad the most overly nerfed champion in league

Atrrox needs a major rework. His ult and kit in general dont fit his actual role which is tank. Yes riot intended him to be a fighter but a fighter attrox cant even out sustain a WW with his blood thrist, 21% life steal, and about 30% atk spd buff.

yorrick is my most played champ in ranked last season yes his early game is waaay over the top hence i carried tons of botlanes with playing yorrick support but his late game is non existant

however i can garantuee you his "ghouls" are all killable

ZamiakeJan 16, 20151 votes

no they arent. It was patched to where they are a on a timer and cant be killed by aa or skills. They only die once thier timer is up