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About Karma' shield

Hochelaga··1 votes·1,817 views

So when people plays Mid Karma, they usually max her Q first since it offers the safest way to farm and to burst enemies from afar

When people plays Top Karma, there are a minority of players that max her W since it is a great bullying spell against melee champions AND it gives a good ganking potential

So when people plays Bot Karma, shouldn't they max her shield (E) first ? I mean, it's completely logical to protect her ADC by giving the maximum shield value to him.

The problem is, when people max Karma's shield first, mixing it with mantra doesn’t provide a satisfying effect. The damage doesn’t scale with her shield value compared to the old Karma.

Also, people don't max her shield first because no matter what rank is her shield, mantra will automatically give a 60% movespeed bonus. Here are some numbers to clarify things:

Inspire (E) : Shield: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 50% AP) Bonus Movement Speed: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% Defiance (R+E) : Magic damage : 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+ 60% AP) Bonus Movement Speed: 60 / 60 / 60 / 60 / 60% AoE Shield: 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 (+ 30% AP)

So as you can see, even with a level 1 mantra, the shield will give a movement speed bonus of 60%. All ranks doesn’t increase that value. Also, the 60 (+60% AP) damage is just not rewarding enough to use it in a battle. As a result, players will use her Mantra shield as an initiating move, ignoring that damage.

Shouldn't Karma be the definition of versatile ? All of Karma's abilities have both an offensive and a defensive component, accentuating the dualism of her character. She should be able to max any spells first without having a disadvantage.

Also, I’d like to point out how her shield got hardly nerfed in terms of damage compared to the old Karma. Her shield and damage value was : 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 / 280 (+ 80% AP)

So here are some suggestions to make her shield more usable when combined with Mantra. Because you know... we're talking here about Karma's ULTIMATE.

Just pick one or more...

Increase the speed duration by : 0,25 / 0,50 / 0,75 / 1,00 second Increase the casting range by : 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 Increase movement speed boost to : 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 % Increase the shield's duration by 1 second

Damage and shield value now scales with Karma's E and mantra now increase that value by : 0 / 40 / 80 / 120 (+ 20% AP)

Maybe by doing this, we will see more players use mantra + E to deal damage and to actually SHIELD their allies instead of just using it as a movement speed bonus.

9 Comments

The5lacker3 votes

Deleting your thread and posting it again doesn't make you any less wrong. You can't save-scum a discussion.

The bonuses granted by Mantra always scale on Mantra. I don't know why this needs to be said, but it seems to be a complex concept to grasp. The bonus damage, bonus shield strength, bonus MS boosts, etc. for Mantra-d abilities are all based on her ranks in Mantra. Her R-E's speed boost is at 60% across all ranks because it adds strength to R-Eing early game, in much the same way that even without ranks in her Q it becomes a 50% slow when Mantra'd, because that's the utility bonus of Mantra.

The primary target of Karma's E, even R-E, gets her E's shield strength based on rank. While the get her R-E's speed boost, they always get, and only get, its basic shield strength.

The only change Karma's shield needs is that the Mantra bonus shield needs to apply to the primary target on top of the basic shield, leading to a total shield strength of 390 (+80% AP) at max rank.

Hochelaga1 votes

'' The bonus damage, bonus shield strength, bonus MS boosts, etc. for Mantra-d abilities are all based on her ranks in Mantra.''

So there you have it. Karma's Q does damage PLUS an additional damage from her Mantra. As an additional CC effect, it slows everyone in the circle by 50% and it explodes for a second time. Karma's W does damage PLUS an additional damage from her mantra. As an additional effect, it also heals Karma based on her missing health and IT SCALES. In this direction. Karma's E should have damage based on her shield level PLUS an additional damage from Mantra.

''Her R-E's speed boost is at 60% across all ranks because it adds strength to R-Eing early game, in much the same way that even without ranks in her Q it becomes a 50% slow when Mantra'd, because that's the utility bonus of Mantra.''

Karma's Q with mantra is used as her primary burst spell. The additional 50% speed reduction is already strong enough. But we use it to damage a target.

Karma's W with mantra as the ability to heal her, which she will have more health during the game. It scales with her HP.

Karma's E with mantra will damage every nearby units and give a shield to neaby ally champions. You literally highlighted the problem. ''The primary target of Karma's E, even R-E, gets her E's shield strength based on rank. While the get her R-E's speed boost, they always get, and only get, its basic shield strength.

The only change Karma's shield needs is that the Mantra bonus shield needs to apply to the primary target on top of the basic shield, leading to a total shield strength of 390 (+80% AP) at max rank.''

So you do admit that the shield value is not high enough and that riot should add a shield strengh ON TOP of the base shield.

IcyPepper1 votes

but what about

Deleting your thread and posting it again doesn't make you any less wrong. You can't save-scum a discussion.

Is this true?

Hochelaga2 votes

I must say that it is true. Deleting the thread was to correct some false things i've wrote

IcyPepper1 votes

Fair enough

KidSpectre2 votes

No thanks. Karma's shield is fine.

DrNova1 votes

as a karma main, sheild is fine. Q is maxed first for the poke and slow, mor effective then just an escape only tool, as Q can be for escape/deterrent because of the slow and good damage, and ALSO a great offensive poke/initiate/finish skill.

Now you know.

Hochelaga1 votes

As a Karma main that has been playing her since 2011 and that has over 1000 ranked games with her and that has a featured guide on her, I do believe that you don't have any arguments for her shield on what you've just said.

Why are you talking about her Q ?

Karma's E is not only for an escape tool and can be used as a burst and shielding an ally.

Now you know.

DrNova1 votes

Your going off on a different tangent, stay on topic.

You were saying shouldnt people max sheild. And they shouldnt. She's more of a poke support with additional utility for her adc. The sheild protects the adc from a good initial chunk, gives them high mobility for an escape/chase.

I mention the Q as to why its maxed first. Because the high damage poke keeps the ADC safe just by virtue of hurting so much AND the added slow, and leaves him free to farm while enemy adc often has to beg for scraps of cs at tower.

I never said it couldnt be used for burst, its just not worth getting for burst. Range burst > close burst. Its far more viable and reasonable getting Q before sheild. There isnt much argument against that.

And your argument about your "guide" and all that jazz, no one cares about your ego. I have played less games with her but have essentially the same win percentage you do with her, so I am pretty confident I know a comparable enough amount about Karma to talk about her.

You SPECIFICALLY asked shouldnt people max her sheild first. I said no, told you why, then you complain about me mentioning it? My post was very clear, and I'm sorry if your ego prevented you from seeing what I was saying and just looking for an argument.

And so far no one else seems to think your argument has any merit either, so.

I guess that clears everything up for you now?

Deleting your thread and posting it again doesn't make you any less wrong. You can't save-scum a discussion. <

This leads me to believe no one else was on your side about this on your previous argument either.

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