Boards›Gameplay

Will we ever get any Dark/Evil Demacians? IMO, Lucian and Vayne don't quite count.

darkdill··10 votes·1,297 views

Lucian might be a "Knight in Sour Armor", but he's still a Purifier and definitely one of the good guys. He's just always emo because of what Thresh did to Senna.

As for Vayne, she doesn't go around killing just ANYONE, but only necromancers, dark wizards, and dark monsters. In some ways, she's like a Viz-Jaq'taar (a mage slayer assassin) from the Diablo series, and like Batman or Huntress in more obvious ways. But that doesn't make her EVIL; she's more an anti-hero.

But so far Demacia has no villainous characters in its roster. Before you say that it's laws would make such a thing impossible, keep this in mind: in a medieval society like Demacia, the laws would benefit whoever holds the best cards.

To give an analogy, in Tales of Vesperia, Magistrate Ragou is guilty of committing some absolutely atrocious acts (such as feeding villagers who can't pay taxes to monsters for his entertainment), but due to his political influence the kingdom's laws can't touch him. He meets his end when protagonist Yuri Lowell murders him in cold blood (an act that makes you love Yuri even more because he doesn't give a damn about the consequences; he just wanted that scumbag Ragou to get what was coming to him).

Now what about having a Demacian noble who is somewhat similar to Ragou? Namely, a Demacian noble who has a LOT of political influence such that the kingdom's laws can't really touch him. I think that'd be an awesome addition to the story, though whether it'd be worthy of another Champion is up to debate.

EDIT: Oops, misplaced section.

23 Comments

MagicFlyingLlama10 votes

You just described noxus.

darkdill1 votes

So the existence of Noxus somehow means there can't be Evil Demacians?

Erockandroll3 votes

{quoted}

So the existence of Noxus somehow means there can't be Evil Demacians?

I think the biggest problem is Demacia is so incredibly black and white about the argument. Noxus may not inherently be considered evil. Their motto is simply "Strength above all." Which may not necessarily mean tyrany. (As the Demacian's might suggest.) Riven, who was the poster child of the Noxian Army, Believing in Strength, but became Discusted with the Violence. And Kled interpreted the motto in a more conservative fashion, in defiance with Noxus' nobility.

It's not necessarily that all of Noxus is the epitome of Evil, but rather that the common folk have objections to the crown. But in doing so, they maintain the Noxian spirit. Which begs the question. Could demacia have a similar problem? The issue really is that said champion has to embed the Heart of Demacia. (Which could be impossible for such a champ to be a villain) And Riot is going to want champs to Represent their reigns, pretty much to show that reigns, alignment and goals. (while unlikely in a historical setting, Fantasy setting will likely wholely represent their Ideals.)

The only other possible way that could work is if such a champ was only born in Demacia, but developed is values elsewhere. Or was kicked out of Demacia. (Thinking along the same lines as Yasuo with Ionia)

Blackstone015 votes

I always thought that unlike Noxus, Demacia kept a lid on the more horrible parts of their society to keep up a "pure" front. You don't have a militaristic nobility based totalitarian regime without crushing rights.

Deadly Mittens1 votes

How about how Garen did nothing as his sister was dragged against her will to join the army because she had talent.

Blackstone011 votes

Yes, like that. Both are militaristic nations with a nobility class, however with different cultures and methods. Noxus is all about meritocracy, the more capable people rising in power, such as when Swain took power. Citizens are to improve themselves and obtain power through might. Demacia on the other hand seems more along the lines of citizens improve themselves to better serve the nation, and that there is a seemingly clear-cut caste system that is only partially based on meritocracy, but more so tradition and honor. Jarvan IV isn't the prince because he's a strong warrior, and those two factors of him don't have to go hand in hand.

Zonkman1 votes

I mean no ones like good or evil Garens done some fucked up shit to people, everyone's just doing what they think is right.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

I mean no ones like good or evil Garens done some fucked up shit to people, everyone's just doing what they think is right.

Kled is a vicious, psychotic animal. Draven is a psychopathic monster who profits off the misery of others. Mundo is a depraved serial killer. Singed is a callous, murderous sociopath.

Noxus has many champions who are shamelessly evil, and not a single wholly benevolent champion. Demacia has many champions who are heroic paragons of virtue, and none that are truly reprehensible. The conflict between Demacia and Noxus is one of good versus evil, which is a real shame.

Zonkman1 votes

Yeah but kleds a yordle and with the new lore update no one knows what he is hes probably some kind of spirit thing he isnt like evil he just wants people off his land. Singed and Mundo are from Zaun, Noxus just wins through any means necessary and Draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaven is just really into his job. I think that Xin has probably done something super shifty and Quinn is a freakbag too

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but kleds a yordle and with the new lore update no one knows what he is hes probably some kind of spirit thing he isnt like evil he just wants people off his land.

Off his land? Read his quotes. He's an insane conquerer who comes into other people's lands, murders them, and eats them with his lizard.

Singed and Mundo are from Zaun,

But are allied to Noxus.

Cassiopiea is also allied to Noxus, and literally stabbed Sivir in the back when she no longer had any use for her.

Even Katarina and Darius, the two most noble Noxian champions, are a violent thug and a brutal warlord respectively.

Noxus just wins through any means necessary and Draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaven is just really into his job.

Taking pleasure and making a spectacle of other people's deaths is evil. He literally likes to give his victims hope before he kills them.

I think that Xin has probably done something super shifty and Quinn is a freakbag too

Nope, no lore supports that. Xin is an inspirational former gladiator slave (he was enslaved by the evil Noxus in fact) and Quinn is just a scout who IIRC hasn't canonically killed anyone.

Demacia is good, Noxus is evil. Period. Ignore what Rioters try to tell you about how the conflict is not clear-cut. At the moment it is. Noxus is an evil nation led by evil men, Demacia is a good nation led by good men.

Look at their respective mascots. Poppy is a humble, heroic woman who fights to defend others and spends her life looking for a hero for the people of Demacia (unaware that she is the hero). Kled is a monstrous lunatic who invades other nations and massacres its people and selfishly takes that which isn't his, before eating the people he has killed.

Like, it's not even subtle anymore. Riot was incredibly foolish to make Kled Poppy's counterpart as the spirit of Noxus. He's an evil monster without a single redeeming quality. He's one of the worst characters they've ever made.

Ireliavence3 votes

poppy like those who believe in blind justice, is naive. the nations poeple are complex.

i highly advise you refer to the magic the gathering color wheel. thier appropriation of the core emotional facets of a character would make profiling the nations much easier.

Noxus would actually be red, in its purest form, and demacia white in its purest form.

Noxus isn't mono black, because it isn't evil, most of the higher ups in noxus would be 3 colored beings with black, red, and blue being the most common. the are ambitious(black), passionate(red), and the schemers(blue). but many of noxus like Riven and (pre-death) Sion would have white as one of thier colors.
Noxus is a Red. Black. Blue. society.

Demacia is from what weve seen of it, a mono white society, but a mono white society would by far to ordered to exist among humanity. I believe that in truth Demaica, has the same colors as Noxus save for red majority.

Demacians, are ordered(white), Intelligent(blue), Realistic(black). the champions of demacia we see, are what demacia wants you to see they are the happy hero, posterboys of the nation. BUT there is no way, that in a monarchy not a single noble wants that crown, its not possible that noone wants lux's head on spike. ITS IMPOSSIBLE THAT EVERYONE IN ALL OF DEMACIA IS TOTALLY DEVOID OF AMBITION, there is extortion, there are deals being made in the dark, Demacia's light is brilliant, but the brighter the light, the darker its shadows are.

remember that when world building.

https://youtu.be/7ReIn6rU_fQ

zlumpy1 votes

I think they already exist as something called a "Noxian" ;)

Not every good guy faction needs a grimdark aspect. Sometimes just having a general group of good guys is a positive thing for fiction.

Ireliavence1 votes

a group of people who only do good just to be good, is boring and inhuman. theres no emotion, no room for character development if every character is he-man

now watch this video, on how a major story telling company classifies there characters, into 5 simple colors. see the system that allows them to make some of the most interesting characters to be put to paper.

https://youtu.be/7ReIn6rU_fQ

Oleandervine1 votes

Your example is a bit bad, and not in line with Demacian ideals. However, it's close. What you mean is a lawful evil person, someone who commits atrocities, but they're completely legal. This is the entrepreneur who purchases a low income housing district, evicts the residences, and razes the place to build high rise condos. This is the lawyer who defends criminals in court and wins his cases just because he wants to see criminal go free and continue to give him business. This is the noble who increases taxes on his residents, not caring how it affects them. This is a politician who convinces his colleagues to vote for his bill that would restrict millions of people in a social group he considers inferior. This is a zealous religious leader who preaches against those he hates in the name of his god. There are ways to encompass the ideals of Demacia and have it be twisted to be evil, yet still within the limits of the law.

Ireliavence1 votes

medieval societies didnt have truth magic.

in truth all the city-states, could take the Demacian approach to law, and have actual law mages, from mtg roaming the cities. my personal city state is Ionia, and we know too much to give too shits about law, we already know the grey lines of life and balance very well.

but Noxus doesn't do it, because they feel any expression that could possibly lead to reasonable power is worth it, in most cases.

all that sh1t aside.

they just haven't gotten around to it. in the mean time why dont you use the magic the gathering color wheel to make a mono white villain? thats basically what your asking from in a Demacian bad guy.

A Demacian "mono white" villain, wouldn't be driven by greed, or a pure desire for power. They would be more like the Ancient Roman Catholic church, taking an idea, and the defense of that idea, to murderous extremes.

OR

they would be a totalitarian; they would want from the bottom of thier heart to protect everyone, but wholeheartedly believe that this mass protection is only achievable under thier rule. A real "the ends justify the means" kinda character.

other than that nice bundle of hilter-social profiling, they could go with he devotion aspect of mono white, except our character is devoted to a corrupted administration, like in the shadows over innstrad block. THE CHAMPION, WOULD HAVE SPENT HIS LIFE IN SERVICE TO THE CHURCH AND SERVE IT WITH ABSOLUTE FAITH TO A BLIND DEGREE, EVEN WHEN THE NEW HEAD OF THAT CHURCH ENLISTS OUR HERO INTO AN ARMY, AND EVEN WHEN THEY FORCE GREAT POWER UPON HIM THROUGH QUESTIONABLE MEANS, EVEN WHEN TO KEEP THE CHURCH PURE HE MUST KILL THOSE WHOSE FAITH IS IN QUESTION (SEE THE CORRUPTION FOR WHAT IT IS)

thats all i can think of for a villain, who is still at his core devoted to justice OUR AT LEAST THINKS HE IS. LOVE TO HEAR OTHERS IDEAS THO.

https://youtu.be/7ReIn6rU_fQ

l Helios l1 votes

Someone has to be pulling the strings within Demacia concerning J4 being impersonated by LeBlanc. You don't think it's just the Black Rose right? No, roots of corruption are deep in Demacia too...

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

according to lore, villainous demacian = dead disowned demacian

Ralanr1 votes

This kinda should be in lore.

Though the closest we'll get to an evil demacian is an unprogressive one. One that thinks the system of Demacia is not broken and will break people to keep it that way. This also gives internal conflict with J4 as he is seen as a progressive person by treating Quinn (a country bumpkin by demacian standards) with equal respect.

darkdill1 votes

Yeah, I just noticed this now. Must've misclicked the section when selecting.

It's been remade in the lore board now.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

For Demacia, immorality is the lack of courage. For Noxus, immorality is the lack of strength. For Ionia, immorality is the lack of wisdom.

For Zaun, immorality is the lack of progress. For Piltover, immorality is the lack of innovation. For Bandle City, immorality reigns supreme as the homeland of Teemo.

A villainous Demacian is basically a coward. Taric before he redeemed himself, was sort of the villain to them.

BremerdanGorst1 votes

My headcanon says that Thresh was a sadistic Demacian jailer in life, but that doesn't count. I think the problem is that there's not a whole lot of room to create a thematically unique character and yet recognizably Demacian. There could be an overzealous Templar sort of character, but hard to make them distinct from Vayne and Lucian. I think overtly evil is right out thematically, a Demacian would probably be fairly indoctrinated. Off the top of my head, Demacia could use a glory seeker, an assassin/spy (not all that likely, even if Lux sorta was this in old lore), or a tactician to try and counter Swain.

Void Kaiju1 votes

I definitely feel like a kingdom as large and powerful as demacia has to have done some conquering in their past. Perhaps a citizen who is descended from one of these crushed nations, surrounded by people who are so convinced that they are the good guys ends up becoming an instrument of destruction against the society that extinguished his ancestors? Someone who, keeping to the theme of demacia, believes in his actions, but commits unspeakable and cruel acts for his cause?

I definitely feel demacia could do with an actual ruthless enemy from within

Qiy4na1 votes

congratulations! you played yourself [slayer-jinx-unamused]

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by darkdill

Zoe's Sleep effect bypasses Morgana's shield, and can't be cleansed with Mikael's? No, Riot. NO.
Gameplay156 comments
284
votes
What if the Cloud Drake also reduced recall times slightly?
Gameplay69 comments
243
votes
PROJECT: Riven
Concepts & Creations74 comments
188
votes
Why does Janna's Q still not have an indicator that shows her allies which direction it's going?
Gameplay72 comments
171
votes
Fiora will require a Traditional skin, even if Riot's said "no more Trad. skins"
Story, Art, & Sound55 comments
169
votes
Rod of Ages should upgrade at max stacks and level 18 to a new item
Gameplay97 comments
162
votes