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Frankly, I think catcher is a dumb name.

Ralanr·May 25, 2017·78 votes·4,372 views

One of the fun (at least for me, I know many disagree) aspects of the subclass system is the extra sense of power one can perceive from the title of their role.

You're not just a fighter, you're a bloody Juggernaut for example.

Catcher imo fails this. It doesn't sound like an interesting term.

"These champions primarily rely on ranged fishing tools, setting their team up for success by picking out a vulnerable target for their team to quickly follow up on."

Based on this description, why not call them fishers or reelers?

Or hell, why not call them Warlords? Leaders who pick out targets for their team to capitalize on. I suggest Warlords also because it's the name of a 4e D&D class that was a martial support/leader character who helped his allies through maneuvers and tactical buffs over straight heals.

Alternatively you could scrape the subclass system for a more diverse category system like in Dota 2 (where heroes have multiple things like carry, initiator, etc) but you seem more interested in making subclasses work instead of following Dota (and frankly, I don't think Dota 2 has to worry about what a new character is going to be that often. Which allows for such a diverse classification system).

167 Comments

Worst Kench NAMay 25, 201778 votes

What, would you rather they be called hookers?

SalsonMay 25, 201724 votes

YES

THE RlVER KlNGMay 25, 20175 votes

You beat me to it

kile147May 25, 201710 votes

If Rakan is a hooker Xayeh is gonna have something to say...

GorantharonMay 26, 20172 votes

Yes, actually.

Dextix LTMay 25, 201713 votes

Catcher?

Ok,

Then who is the Pitcher?

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

AngrychickénMay 25, 20179 votes

Tomorrow.

EvanThomasMay 25, 20178 votes

Just what I needed, a couple of days on the team.

AngrychickénMay 25, 20176 votes

YES! SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!

Karn BishopMay 26, 20172 votes

so Jayce then?

Big LincolnMay 25, 201710 votes

call them supports cos that's what they are

or better yet call them disablers because that's what they're called in dodo and it makes sense

RalanrMay 25, 20174 votes

As a whole class? Yeah, supports over controllers.

Dodo? Do you mean Dota2?

Teridax68May 25, 20179 votes

I don't quite get Riot's aversion to the term "support". Yeah, supports are considered servants in League, but only because that is what the game's current structure forces them to be. If the developers were to focus on actually improving the support experience and making them feel less like second-class players, they wouldn't have to come up with these awkward euphemisms.

Morgan le FeyMay 25, 201712 votes

That would be so amazing, too. Actually, that touches on part of the central issue. I want to be a support, not a servant. I want to make my team better, which is empowering. Making my team better says that I'm making things happen, I'm improving my team, I'm acting - I'm a force multiplier. I don't want to simply serve their needs, which is disempowering. That says I have no value outside of the needs of my team, that my role is whatever my team's whims say it should be, that I alone cannot decide my fate - I do not carry. Mind, as it stands, a good support can carry a decent team, but unless I play a damage support, my options for straight-up hard carrying a bad team are limited to nonexistent. Part of that is the force multiplier issue (multiplying a small number is not all that helpful), but it sets a bad precedent overall. I believe we need a serious conversation about how to make support a role that is less exclusively team-reliant without either damaging our position as a team-focused role or making us absurdly overpowered.

Support, as a position, needs more volition, more resources, and more influence on a losing game. Support, as a role, needs to be powerful enough that having mages come down and steal those resources to be another damage carry is not a universally superior option, though I am not opposed to it being an option at all. Flexible meta is good! I want to see supports mid and top! I want to see mages bot and support! But everything has to be balanced on even resources for that to be viable. Otherwise, you'll either have the mid/top supports abusing the extra gold to become late-game supports in the mid-game, or you'll have support as a role becoming not useful at all in the face of an increasingly damage-oriented meta.

Teridax68May 25, 201710 votes

I agree with this. What defines a support isn't their access to Sightstone, or their proximity to the marksman, or their separation from the game's typical progression systems, it's their ability to completely alter the flow of a fight, saving allies from impossible situations and setting up enemies for easy kills. Having the power of life and death over your own team should warrant respect and authority in and of itself, yet that cannot come properly to the forefront while supports are constrained to a limited and boring set of strategic options, one that forces them to be subservient to their teammates.

In every class-based game, supports tend to be the least popular class, because most players want to deal tons of damage independently and rack up lots of kills. The right move should have been to compensate for this by giving supports the most love out of any class, and making sure they have as much freedom and enjoyment as they possibly can. Instead, supports in League are assigned burdens nobody else has to worry about, including rigid builds that are strictly enforced by their own allies, and limited choices on what they can do and where they can move relative to their team, and especially their marksman. It is no surprise that support is by far the least played role in the game, to the point where unpleasant systems like Autofill have to be implemented just to make sure queue times don't go way overboard. In turn, this makes supporting feel even more like a chore, since players who might have been interested in playing it might just not want to touch it willingly anymore, as they're sure to get forced into playing the role eventually.

I completely agree that there needs to be more positional flexibility for supports, and 2v1 lane dynamics need to change so that being outnumbered in lane doesn't feel so horrendous. Many supports already synergize well with non-marksmen, several more could be made more flexible by having their kit disentangled from that class, and allowing supports to take up more positions could allow non-marksmen carries to shine (I'd argue that the only thing holding Karthus back right now is that he has no-one to assist him during his harsh laning phase, for example). While I do think it's important for supports to primarily contribute utility and CC in most cases, which naturally predisposes them to mainly synergize with allies, I agree that supports should be given a bit more independence, and I think it would be good for diversity to have supports in solo lanes or the jungle, provided they're healthy there. In fact, I'd totally support (heh) making the class part of the larger interchangeable pool of champions, so that it would be viable to have teams without any support, just as it would be viable to have teams with multiple supports. The same should apply to marksmen, but that's a matter for another discussion.

junglerboy16May 27, 20171 votes

I think they're doing it primarily because support is supposed to be a role, not a class.

Right now they have top, mid, bot, jungle, and support as the 5 standard roles, because regardless of what class of champ you play, when you are your team's support you do certain things to help your allies that no other player on the team does.

Supports as a class is a misnomer, because not all support class champions are bot lane supports, and not all bot lane supports are in the support class.

Basically, Riot is clearing up this really awkward and annoying doubled meaning that support has had attached to it for years by giving subclasses that reflect how a champion plays, rather than what their specific job is in a team of 5.

Teridax68May 27, 20171 votes

But that's the thing, the support role is so named because its purpose is to support the marksman, whereas that of the support class is to support their team (and initially just the marksman too). It doesn't really make sense to pretend the class and the position are separate, because they've been designed around each other for years now. Sure, there's some ambiguity as to whether you're referring to the position or the class, but there's no real confusion in purpose or function, because it's pretty much the same for both.

If Riot were to mature the role beyond simply babysitting the marksman, then there might be cause for differentiation, but in that scenario the term for the position would evolve, not the one for class. If there really needs to be differentiation, that needs to be done through changes to the position's name, where "support" is inaccurate when referring to kill lane mages, tanks or marksmen, and not the class, which is literally designed to support their teammates.

junglerboy16May 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If Riot were to mature the role beyond simply babysitting the marksman, then there might be cause for differentiation, but in that scenario the term for the position would evolve, not the one for class. If there really needs to be differentiation, that needs to be done through changes to the position's name, where "support" is inaccurate when referring to kill lane mages, tanks or marksmen, and not the class, which is literally designed to support their teammates.

I guess to me it seems like changing the names for the classes is what marks the first step in evolving the role, but I do agree they need to find a different name for the position on the team first, and for the class second.

Teridax68May 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I guess to me it seems like changing the names for the classes is what marks the first step in evolving the role, but I do agree they need to find a different name for the position on the team first, and for the class second.

I agree strongly with both statements. An important part of naming classes is that it's meant to set a strong fantasy, and establish a good enough image that future members of the class can be designed with that in mind (juggernauts are big, heavy-hitting and slow, for example, so in that respect it's a perfect name for the subclass). Because of this, "Catcher" isn't at all a good fit, because it's very obviously a term reverse-engineered from a disparate group of champions to attempt to put them all in the same box. It doesn't sell a strong fantasy, and looking at the members of the subclass, there are no consistent design rules to work with, not even when it comes to the "catching" part.

By contrast, "support" as a class name is both a strong fantasy (supports are very well-established in general gaming space) and an accurate descriptor of the class and what it's meant to do: all of the champions in that category are expressly meant to work with their allies, and operate by protecting or empowering their allies, and rendering enemies weaker or vulnerable. It's not a direction Riot's really trying to move away from, so it would be better to start with that name and see how the support class can improve over time.

By contrast, the only reason we have a support position is because of an extremely rigid positional meta. Out of practically every MOBA, League is unique in how limited its compositions are: Dota, an older franchise with very well-defined laning (to the point where some games are one big laning phase), has tremendous positional diversity, including 2-1-2 comps, 3-1-1 comps, the more easily identifiable 2-1-1-1 comp, etc., and more leeway on where different heroes can go. On the other side of the spectrum, Heroes of the Storm, which doesn't have a particularly strongly-defined laning phase, allows any character to basically roam from one lane to the other from the very start, and has no serious restrictions on which champion can go where. In these games, a framework such as League's Team Builder's would make absolutely no sense, and neither would there be in designating a specific bot lane "support" role, because there is so much more positional fluidity and diversity that it would be impossible to tie a specific position to a class. Considering how pretty much ever other MOBA has achieved this diversity, to its significant benefit, this is something League itself needs to move towards by addressing its own problems, instead of going about the nomenclature issue backwards.

Fondling GemsMay 25, 20173 votes

Oh boy! Then I get to have discussions with people where I have to explain the difference between supports, supports, and supports. Yeah, lets not have support be something a champion does to help their team, a class, and a role. "Supporting" is also a common term we use in Leauge that is separate from the other 3 too. That is just asking for hell, because then I get to be a support support acting as a support by supporting my team.

It gets better if we have a Lulu mid because then I get to be a support support being a support by supporting a support who is being a support by supporting the team but is not a support.

As amusing as it is to say ima have to veto that.

AtanchanMay 26, 20171 votes

Yeah, that's the real issue here. We don't need more words like "-sexual," which can refer physical sex, gender, sexuality, method of reproduction, etc. all based around what the prefix is. And sometimes prefix applies for multiple meanings, which can appear in the same sentence.

Seriously, whenever I think of how many double meanings there are in LGBT terminology, it's a lot less surprising that people can't comprehend it.

Teridax68May 26, 20173 votes

Speaking of LGBT terminology, "catcher" is common American slang for the receptive partner in gay male anal sex. If the intent is to make the average straight male American player feel better about playing a support, that might not have been the best name to pick. :P

Arcus DiabolusMay 25, 201710 votes

Could call them Trappers. Same thing in essence, but sounds more intimidating.

TheEdgeOfDestinyMay 25, 20174 votes

Trappers are the best one. Though it has some hunting, nature and tribal associations.

Malicious MetalMay 25, 20179 votes

I'd call them Play makers or Cherry pickers.

:^)

kile147May 25, 20178 votes

I think the best name would be tacticians. They are leaders who pick the targets and determine the team's focus. Also then we'd have the juggernaut who is not a juggernaut Sion , the vanguard who isn't a vanguard Garen , and the tactician who isn't a tactician Swain !

3TWarriorMay 26, 20172 votes

probably the only tactical decisions a swain can make are when to use his W and when to All-in

a yorick is more of a master tactician at this point, but it's part of swain's charm. He's brilliant, but doesn't care and would rather tear his enemies to pieces and eat them XD

at this point, I think swain should be categorized as a juggernaut: you don't want to fight him until he is alone and even then he is a threat

but at the same time, mage and juggernaut are a bit hard to associate together as unlike most juggernauts, he is non-committed upon engage and he is also a high-priority target (as let's face it, no one wants to take 200 dps in a team fight )

reaperteaserMay 25, 20177 votes

i dont see what's wrong with calling them hookers?

TheEdgeOfDestinyMay 25, 20174 votes

It's illegal in many countries so they will be removed from game like Grave's cigar.

PaladinNOMay 25, 20173 votes

Except Graves' cigar returned.

But if a "hooker" returns, I guess the term would be "regular" [customer].

CithriaCMay 25, 20173 votes

The cigar actually isn't officially in the game, it is just that they use an alternate cigar including splash screen if you live in a region that allows it. They could probably do the same thing with names, but it would get confusing having different class names in different regions.

Jo0oMay 25, 20175 votes

I liked Disruptors. What was so bad about Disruptors?

I'm a Bard main. I fucking love playing Bard. I love finding new and interesting ways to fuck up somebody's day with Bard's abilities. I'll peel an enemy gank off my ADC by stunning the enemy jungler into their support. I'll find a ridiculous angle to portal my allies out of a blown engage, or behind enemy lines, or efficiently rotate them to the next objective. I'll go full AP or AD and surprise the enemy team by randomly assassinating their carry with my burst damage. I'll seed healing shrines near friendly objectives so that my jungler gets more sustain, or seed them near my botlane turret so that my ADC can heal while I roam. I'll split the enemy team in two with my ult. I'll go on a crazy adventure, kiting multiple foes through portals and stuns and jukes and jungle plant fuckery, wasting the enemy's time in a way that few champs outside of Singed can typically manage.

And yes... sometimes I catch people.

I'm a Catcher? Really?

RalanrMay 25, 20172 votes

You sound like a cosmic Warlord to me.

Jo0oMay 25, 20175 votes

Cosmic Warlord Bard, bringer of death and cocoa. I like.

BrascusMay 25, 20175 votes

HOW ABOUT

M A S T E R

B A I T E R S

PaladinNOMay 25, 20173 votes

Well, they are usually at the frontline. On the tip of things, as it were.

JbelsMay 25, 20174 votes

"Controllers" lol

RalanrMay 25, 20174 votes

"I'm a controller but I can't control my team! Riot buff me!"

But seriously, supports as a general class term doesn't really need to be changed. Everytime they try, it doesn't look that great.

JbelsMay 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"I'm a controller but I can't control my team! Riot buff me!"

Is that supposed to be the role name that replaces support? If so, I'm incredibly disappointed. What's so wrong with ADC/Marksman and support anyway? Both have a nice ring to them, and support has always conveyed the role's significance perfectly fine. Supports support. You want to know what a good role name to replace support would be?

Hero. They constantly risk their lives behind enemy lines just to secure vision, and are known for saving lives, not taking them.

RalanrMay 25, 20173 votes

That might give support players an ego.

So yes. Call supports "Heroes" because frankly that role is stereotyped as having no ego.

JbelsMay 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That might give support players an ego.

So yes. Call supports "Heroes" because frankly that role is stereotyped as having no ego.

There IS a stigma when it comes to the name support though. A lot of people don't even want to play the role because it's called support in the first place. I can understand why the need for a new name, but controller is just gross

RalanrMay 25, 20172 votes

Hero, leader, captain, all of these can give a more "badass" representation of the support role.

JbelsMay 25, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Hero, leader, captain, all of these can give a more "badass" representation of the support role.

Overseers? Protectors? Babysitters?

SilverjustMay 25, 20178 votes

support is a position, controllers are a class of champions, you can play tanks, mages and controllers as support

kile147May 25, 20176 votes

Exactly, everyone thinks Riot is coming up with more polite terms for support when they're really trying to make a distinction between champs like Brand who are often played with an ADC bot lane, and champs like Thresh who actually support their team.

Deep Terror NamiMay 25, 20172 votes

A what now? lol, can you link me this update, I haven't been paying attention to updates and announcements recently, and I want to see what they're saying about this officially.

RalanrMay 25, 20172 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

You're a mod now? When did that happen?

Deep Terror NamiMay 25, 20173 votes

Ok if those are "catchers", which is a terrible name, I'd go for maybe "Grapplers"?

Anyway, I was renamed an Arbiter like 7 weeks ago.

RalanrMay 25, 20171 votes

I still prefer Warlords.

Edit: What do you do as an Arbiter?

SexualsaurusMay 25, 20175 votes

What do you do as an Arbiter?

Carry out the Prophet's holy missions and ensure the great journey.

######They act as volunteer mods for the player behaviour boards

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