Somebody tell me again about all the counterplay Fiora has.

SaltyKracka·Oct 1, 2015·72 votes·5,098 views

Because SKT sure doesn't seem to think there is any.

160 Comments

ComannderShepardOct 1, 201538 votes

just cc her and pink ward her spears

AuryielOct 2, 20156 votes

I'm glad this isn't dead

HexaDecimelOct 1, 201527 votes

Watching skilled players play a champion skillfully....

Bouncemaster ZacOct 1, 201537 votes

{quoted}

Watching skilled players play a champion skillfully....

Yeah, the way he mashed Q and got a triple for it sure was skillful.

DengedenOct 1, 201529 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, the way he mashed Q and got a triple for it sure was skillful.

LoL in a nutshell...

SeekêrOct 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

LoL in a nutshell...

IKR, every champ consists of 4 spells and a passive.... You can make the "smash [x key] for [insert: kill, shield, "to live" here] argument for any champion that performs well xD

FluxBoundOct 2, 20159 votes

DrMundo press W to almost die

iamleburkOct 1, 20159 votes

Everyone conviently forgets that Marin was given a lot of farm and two kills at that point. Fiora was fed, she impacted the fight just as much as any fed assassin would. OH and a lot of the damage was from Bang's crits, not only fiora. And before you say "two kills isn't fed", you need to watch more pro games. It isn't rare to see a player carry a game after being given just one kill

Saminus MaximusOct 1, 201513 votes

Just cc he-Wait...Uh. Just burst h...Oh..huh. Um...Build defenc-no...No that doesnt work...Hmm

LuggOct 1, 201511 votes

EVERYONE knows she is OP as hell. The only possibly stronger champ in the game right now is Darius and he is perma banned.

HoodwinkOct 1, 20153 votes

Demacia!

LuggOct 1, 20152 votes

Garen is very broken as well, just not as bad as those two.

SulghunterOct 1, 20151 votes

Honestly, Garen is the only one of the whole juggernaut bunch who is reasonably powerful.

LuggOct 1, 20152 votes

Morde is stupid powerful if he gets any kind of advantage. Skarner is OP in the crystal zones and UP outside of them. Darius is pick/ban for a reason.

Garen just does WAY too much damage for how tanky he is. You can't have a champion with that combination and not have a problem. Add into the fact that he has good mobility and INSANE sustain, and you have a champion that is zero fun to play against.

SulghunterOct 1, 20154 votes

What about playing against Annie Fizz Heimerdinger Leblanc Pantheon Singed Teemo Tryndamere Vladimir or Yorick ? None of these champions are fun to play against. In fact, I'd rather play against Darius, then any of these champs.

Krys StarOct 1, 20159 votes

Tbh I miss old Fiora, even though Blade Waltz was cancer, and I hate that I can't play Fiora anymore. The fact she has max hp % in true damage is stupid. It should be physical, with Grand Challenge switching Vitals to True Damage, and only during Grand Challenge. Otherwise, her passive shouldn't give her easy access to extra damage that cannot be countered by any means.

Blade of JusticOct 1, 20158 votes

I think someone said that item 3140 cleanses her ultimate from you.

That's a choice, but other than that, Fiora seems to like to wait until you have a vital point in the front of you (closest to her) before she strikes.

CaythelesOct 1, 201510 votes

SKT Fiora did not proc over 2 hits of her ult and never proc's her Heal. This shows thaty she is strong enough and negating her ult wont mean anything to her.

idokiOct 1, 20158 votes

It does, but being forced into buying an item against a specific champion isn't counterplay, it's pigeonholing.

Ariel the CruelOct 1, 201517 votes

It's counter-building which is a viable balance metric. Counter-play is still a stronger metric.

idokiOct 1, 20152 votes

It's not called counter-building... It's called building accordingly to the situation.

SinlaireOct 1, 201519 votes

building accordingly to the situation

counter building

which one is easier to say with essentially the same effect? i'll let you decide.

idokiOct 1, 20154 votes

Riot repeatedly said over and over that being forced to buy an item against a certain champion is not counterplay.

Ariel the CruelOct 1, 20159 votes

Riot repeatedly said over and over that being forced to buy an item against a certain champion is not counterplay.

Neither me nor SinLaire said it was counter-play. It's counter-build.

Note that neither of us are saying it's universally healthy either. Balance is measured on a multitude of matrices. Counter-build is one of the. If a champion's success is dependent on whether or not they or their opponents build a specific item, than that's a failure in that particular metric. Counter-build, counter-play, and counter-pick are all different things. Contrary what what many vocal forum-goers claim.

idokiOct 1, 20153 votes

So basically we are saying the same thing... I thought you implied that being an item is counterplay. My bad, my apologize :)

HellioningOct 1, 20154 votes

I don't think you should ever be encouraged to buy a MR item against a physical damage dealer.

NiyumiOct 1, 20156 votes

What counterplay does Fiora have?

Well, first off, you can reset her passive to a more favorable position, which makes it hard for her to Q it without putting herself at risk.
Secondly, she's VERY squishy. So if you go all in on her (not when she pops her ult, of course) you can just overpower her.
She has no hard CC unless you throw a stun at her parry.
She has incredibly short range (hello, Gnar!)

Now, as to which champs counter her? Jayce, Gnar, Heimer, Mundo, Darius, Teemo, Quinn... see the pattern? Anyone who can blind, keep her at range, go all in with overpowering damage, or any combination, can easily deal with Fiora. She's not as broken as people like to make her out to be. Is she strong? Definitely. Is she without counterplay? Not at all. She excels at dueling, and can take on most people 1v1, and she can annihilate squishies with relative ease -- tanks can fight her for a while, but if she pops her ult, you better run.

Every champion can be counterplayed, and (almost) every champion has weaknesses (looking at you, Riven, Vayne and so on).

SaltyKrackaOct 1, 201512 votes

Given that she absolutely dominated the lane against a Gnar, I think you should go ahead and rethink your conclusions.

NiyumiOct 1, 20152 votes

Bad Gnar vs. good Fiora would mean a Fiora won lane. What's your point? :P

SaltyKrackaOct 1, 201510 votes

...Pro play. She shat all over Gnar because Q didn't have a meaningful cooldown.

NiyumiOct 1, 20153 votes

Just because it's "pro play" doesn't mean that one side can't be worse at their champ/role. A good Gnar would laugh as they stomped Fiora. If he lost to a Fiora (who's Q, by the way, has a 4s CD at max rank IF YOU HIT SOMETHING), then I really feel no sympathy for him.

DrNovaOct 1, 201511 votes

You are just assuming the gnar was bad just to bolster you argument. And any champ who can gapclose beats gnar easy. She blocks his boomerang and she can just go to town on him. Super easy to counter boomerang.

Most of your points are arguable in either direction. But let me say resetting your vital is still a win for her, as you lose cs hard doing so.

RISE Shlack123Oct 2, 20152 votes

Pro play is what Riot balances the game around. So, by that logic, you have to assume that H2K's top laner is good on Gnar. You only say he was bad because that's the crux of your argument. Too bad it couldn't be further from the truth.

NiyumiOct 2, 20151 votes

Because every "pro" gamer is a god with every champion ever, right? Gnar is a harder champion to master, and obviously he wasn't good enough on one of Fiora's hard counters to make use of it. Sorry, but all your fanboying and worshipping of pro players doesn't mean anything.

RISE Shlack123Oct 2, 20153 votes

How am I fanboying? I'm simply stating the fact that LoL is balanced around the pro level of play, and Gnar is practiced heavily because he is very much a meta top laner. Stating simple facts about how LoL is balanced and the fact that you have to assume the top laner playing him is fluent with his kit does not a fanboy make. You're being combative for no real reason.

Baron of BreadOct 2, 20151 votes

If the instant she pops her ult you have lost then there might be something wrong with the champion. There is the idea of just running away when she uses it, but she gets a 30% minimum move speed boost just for being in the duel area. Combine that with her dash and there really doesn't feel like there is a viable escape.

I seem to recall that there was something said along the lines of "anyone should be able to outplay Fiora" in the rework page. I may be wrong but that statement sure as salt is too. Most low mobility champs have jack crap they can do to stop a Fiora from killing them in any situation.

NiyumiOct 2, 20151 votes

Well, given that it takes her a good 3-4s to pop every vital, you can get out fast enough since most immobile champs have some form of CC. And 99.99% of the population runs flash. If not, there are things called QSS, merc sword, Zhonya's and so on available to you. :P

I will admit that, numbers-wise, she's a little high (I think capping her passive to, say, 10-12.5% (40% and 50% max HP with ult) would be a good idea. But her kit definitely has counterplay available.

Baron of BreadOct 2, 20152 votes

A lot of them do have cc, but it has a tendency to be delayed a little. Using delayed cc against a Fiora is just a good way to kill yourself. Considering that 99% of the population uses flash you might expect the Fiora to also have flash, so you will die anyway. QSS and Zhonya's are not options that are good on a lot of people, and Zhonya's is probably a poor choice against Fiora anyway (unless you are in a teamfight situation and you are an APC). Outside of QSS there is no items that are good against her aside from maybe Rylai's, Randuin's and Twin Shadows because slows are always nice.

There is some counterplay to her. Do I think that there are a lot of champs that can't take advantage of said counterplay? Yes. I understand that there is such a thing as counterpicks, but it feels like Fiora is a hard counter to more champs than is reasonable. I don't know if reducing her numbers will make it so those champs can use her counterplay but it can't hurt.

DengedenOct 1, 20155 votes

H2K walked into her, they should freaking uninstall. That's the thing about her really, unless she can slow you, she can't catch you.

Rustling BushOct 1, 201512 votes

{quoted}

H2K walked into her, they should freaking uninstall. That's the thing about her really, unless she can slow you, she can't catch you.

i don't know about that, that dash of hers uses so little mp she can spam it at low ranks.

Weiner the PoohOct 1, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUi2f6pE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-10-01T17:56:38.975+0000)

i don't know about that, that dash of hers uses so little mp she can spam it at low ranks.

It adds up quite fast, especially when it's maxed.

SaltyKrackaOct 1, 20153 votes

It really doesn't.

iamleburkOct 1, 20152 votes

Really? Why do most pro fiora's build essence reaver then?

SaltyKrackaOct 1, 20153 votes

...They don't.

iamleburkOct 1, 20152 votes

Lmao are you serious?

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Fiora?region=KR

4th most popular item.

SaltyKrackaOct 1, 20152 votes

When it gets to be more picked or meaningful than any of the other offensive items she builds, I'll start caring.

ChaoticPineconeOct 2, 20152 votes

its the first choice BF item for her. thats pretty meaningful.

Edit - its meaningful considering that no other champion really uses essence reaver. Most would opt for BT, QSS, or IE instead.

RisenDarkKnightOct 2, 20153 votes

IDK built in 6% of games really isn't enough to say that she's mana hungry. They could be just building it to get to 40% cdr.

ChaoticPineconeOct 2, 20153 votes

Oh, i really dont know why they built it. Im just saying its a meaningful item to her - its the first time in pro play that essence reaver was consistently bought on a champion.

The explanation could be as simple as "its the cheapest 80 AD item" for such an item dependent champion. Maybe its because she cant charge up a Bloodthirster before a teamfight, or she doesnt need extra 10% lifesteal it gives since she generally gets Ravenous Hydra first item.