Boards›Gameplay

Have you really thought this new Ashe change through?

SaltyKracka··8 votes·1,404 views

Alright, so you wrote this in the 5.12 patch notes.

Ranger's Focus is intended to provide a big payoff in spikes of damage for investment in the form of time spent building up Focus stacks. Currently this isn't actually the case, with would-be divers of the Frost Archer finding themselves gunned down by a flurry before the fight even starts (often thanks to tossing Volley into a minion wave or horde of enemy champions) and gaining access to her steroid instantly. Removing her immediate access to its powerful damage boost evens the playing field for her predators, requiring her to stay frosty in order to focus them down.

It's just...you remember how you changed her W so that tanks could soak it for the rest of their team? Made it suck for waveclear? All that?

Are you saying that there should be no downside for people hoping to jump onto Ashe? Should she have no options to instantly react to people diving her? A character that's already the least mobile champion in the game should have no ability to counterplay opponents who can gapclose onto her? Not even damage? Is that really the type of change you want to make to a character who's trending towards a 50% winrate after the nerf you gave her in the last patch?

And that's just talking about her W. Should she really not be rewarded for landing an awesome Arrow in the middle of the enemy team?

tl;dr: Riot, are you really sure that it's the right idea gating Ashe's already relatively low damage behind a very slow stacking pattern in the cases she's most vulnerable and in need of a fallback pattern?

@Meddler @FeralPony

21 Comments

disregardable5 votes

Yes? ... Getting jumped on is her weakness.

SaltyKracka3 votes

Getting jumped on has always been her weakness. It hadn't stopped being a weakness before this change was brought up, yet the way they phrase it makes it seem like Ashe has been blowing up people who try to dive her as their excuse for nerfing her in this fashion.

Kouga2 votes

While I see your point about "landing a good arrow", I also agree with them that 1 volley into a creep wave shouldn't let Ashe immediately ramp up her damage output.

There could be a compromise found here though, if it really becomes an issue. It could be, "Adds one stack if it hits any number of minions or monsters. Adds an additional stack for every Champion hit", that would avoid her Volleying a wave, but still let her benefit from a well placed Arrow or a good Volley into the whole team.

SaltyKracka1 votes

That's really kind of missing the point of my post, though. Sure, you can make W and R only get one stack from minions, but removing the ability of W to get multiple stacks from hitting a single champion means that as soon as a champ gapcloses onto Ashe, her W, Q, and by extension Ashe herself are absolutely worthless.

Kouga4 votes

Ashe is a kiting Cha-

No, Ashe is THE kiting Champion.

The strength of kiting Champions is keeping enemies at a distance. So yeah, if someone gapcloses on a kiting Champion they are in trouble.

1011001110003 votes

I don't think Ashe is even THE kiting champion anymore. That crown probably fell over to Kalista.

Bradley Dragon2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Ashe is even THE kiting champion anymore. That crown probably fell over to Kalista.

kalista can actually kite. ashes atack animation is so fucking slow that she really cant kite for shit without very high attack speed. you need her to have swifties and you to not even have boots for her to actually kite you pre lvl 18

SaltyKracka1 votes

Ashe hasn't been a or the kiting champ since the release of champions like Irelia and Nocturne.

Hell, Kalista is a much better kiter than Ashe is. Maybe it has something to do with being...y'know...mobile?

FirstSergeantBim2 votes

Why not? If Ashe is able to land 1 volley into a creep wave to gain her 5 Focus stacks, then that's a clever way to increase her power in a pinch and it's also obviously very situational. A clear window of opportunity for the enemy. Do not engage on Ashe if she is next to a minion wave. If there are "window of opportunity" rules for Gnar and Ryze, why can't there be the same rules for Ashe?

Rabid Husky2 votes

its because her arrows only count for one hit now that's why people have more issues with it now shes exclusively restricted to cc supports like morgana or taric to hold down enemys so she can get 5 stacks now yes she still gets stacks off minions but its a massive skill shot basically since you cant get the jump on a enemy going in with this nurf. someone like tristana or kalista can kill her before she can get 5 stacks edit: im just joining in this convo i tottaly agree with ya ^-^

LankPants2 votes

What I don't understand is why they're nerfing Ashe while Kalista goes untouched.

Ashe is a niche pocket-pick in competitive play, I'd argue she's fairly fine in solo-que too, sure she's powerful but she doesn't feel overbearing.

Kalista's pick/ban in almost every game and just feels 100% bullshit to have to play against.

LittleBlast1 votes

Kalista is not op, annoying? Yes. OP? No. Ashe and kali are two different champs, ones a high damage utility adc that needs to ramp up a bit, kali is a slippery low damage champ that gains more potential damage as she damages you.

LankPants3 votes

Believe what you want, but Kalista is the most banned ADC in both solo que and competitive play at the moment. She's also in the top 3 most picked and her pick/ban rate is the highest of any ADC.

Ashe is mostly played by a few players. (Doublelift comes to mind) She's also very unpopular in some regions, she hasn't been played once in the LCK since her rework. Kalista's popularity transcends region, she's considered first-pick worthy in every region.

Ashe and kali are two different champs

That doesn't mean I can't compare their power levels. Janna and Taric are two very different champs who fill the same position, yet it's very clear that Janna's vastly superior to Taric. (unless you're Edward)

The Ellimiist1 votes

tbh as ashe main I really dont care either way. It was a gimmick that if a minion wave happened to be close I could press q right away for flurry and im not a huge fan of gimmicks.

Also you get jumped on thats what R is for (assuming near tower/allies, otherwise you deserve to die)

SaltyKracka1 votes

R's a fucking terrible way to disengage, though.

Valheeru1 votes

Imho Riot never thinks through and after the nerfs they did on w now by the time i will have 5 stacks, I will be dead, way to go riot. new playstyle hide behind tower and use ulti to try to get a kill

straight4free1 votes

Ashe needed the nerf, and making her weakness more pronounced was a good way to go about it.

Icestar11861 votes

Her damage isn't that low.

SaltyKracka1 votes

bump

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by SaltyKracka

Somebody tell me again about all the counterplay Fiora has.
Gameplay160 comments
72
votes
@Meddler, you've had 5 months.
Gameplay119 comments
62
votes
I have the way to finally balance Zed once and for all.
Gameplay56 comments
58
votes
When somebody says "Every game is winnable", that's a goddamn lie.
Gameplay27 comments
33
votes
How do you solve a problem like Kayle?
Gameplay67 comments
30
votes
So Irelia's sitting at a 54% winrate.
Gameplay21 comments
9
votes