@Meddler, you've had 5 months.

SaltyKracka·Feb 6, 2016·62 votes·2,900 views

5 months worth of incontrovertible evidence, of patch after patch after patch.

It's time to stop lollygagging and nerf Lux.

119 Comments

TehNACHOFeb 6, 201626 votes

I still find it funny that the Boards (and from hearsay, Reddit) are largely to fault for some of Lux's most recent set of buffs.

AzteryzFeb 6, 20163 votes

[deleted]

TehCrystalMethodFeb 6, 20165 votes

STOP POINTING FINGERS! FINGER POINTING GETS US NOWHERE!

#STEVE!

RendarkanFeb 7, 20163 votes

https://susanhenschen.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/finger_pointing_027.gif

WILLIAM MADE ME DO IT!

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20164 votes

Yes, people asked for buffs, but of all she got, only one was a community idea, which was making E "primeable" mid-flight like Gragas' Barrels.

Removing penalty for hitting the second target with Q, making E radius larger and W shield instant cast, were Riot's ideas to begin with.

TehNACHOFeb 7, 20161 votes

Not if I recall correctly.

Two major complaints were her mana costs (specifically to her E, but the buff on her Q is still on point) and how clunky the shield was (Reddit). E Radius and Second target Q are entirely Riot's, sure, but that still leaves a gigantic burden on the community.

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20161 votes

I meant of those she got, not all ideas that were thrown around.

Q mana buff? Never heard of that one coming from the community.

TehNACHOFeb 7, 20162 votes

Because mana complaints were focused on her E, but it still serves the same job, as I already said~

DIRUFeb 7, 20163 votes

lux gets buffed

"another one"

lux gets buffed

"another one"

fucking dj khaled on the boards

Hayaishi2Feb 6, 201614 votes

Preferably her burst because no "Utility" mage should be bursting that hard, and her laser needs a WAAAAAY higher CD, she shouldn't be using it for poke.

SomnitsuFeb 7, 20162 votes

Poke? I use it for wave clear. 45% cdr man

SeenanFeb 6, 201611 votes

Too much safety and burst in one AP champ. Mid-game all she needs to do is combo you as a support Lux and you're probably dead as anyone moderately squishy.

ZT XperimentorFeb 6, 20168 votes

What? A safe & burst-y champion? You don't say . . . Caitlyn Ekko Fiora Fizz Kalista Khazix Kindred LeeSin Lucian Quinn Rengar Udyr XinZhao Yasuo Zed But seriously, riot's running gag needs to stop; this kind of playstyle is frustrating to fight.

KetiFeb 7, 201610 votes

most of those are either not safe, not bursty, or neither

ZT XperimentorFeb 7, 20162 votes

Being able to deny an oppoent from hitting you is one of the safest things in the game; ever try to chase caitlyn as mordekaiser? How about land a hit on fizz? Try to solo fiora as darius?

ThumpinFeb 7, 20163 votes

Yes, I have played this game.

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20165 votes

You lost all the credibility at Yasuo, who is the most often killed mid lane champion in the game.

How is that "safe" for you?

The WhamboozlerFeb 7, 20164 votes

Well, I mean.... he has a free shield every few seconds and a wall that blocks ranged spells and auto attacks. Just because he's popular with dumb players and they feed on him doesn't mean he's lacking in safety. He's got some strong defensive abilities.

Earthlord JazzFeb 7, 20169 votes

Nerfs Swain's root to 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds

Let's leave Lux's equivilant 2 second snare with ridiculous range and width as is

Kuroi86Feb 7, 20167 votes

Lets compare two completely different champs and pretend it becomes a valid point! :D

No seriously, while the nerf to Swain sucks major donkey balls, comparing him and Lux makes no sense, they are nothing alike. =/

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20162 votes

They are a good example of favourism, though.

Swain is very low-range, burst-less champion, with not-so reliable CC, low playrate and average winrate. He gets his CC nerfed.

Lux is very long-rane, burst champion, with reliable CC, instant double shield, high pickrate and above average winrate. She gets buffs to every ability in the same patch.

Kuroi86Feb 7, 20162 votes

Except you're still comparing two completely different champs to try and make a point without any solid ground to stand on.

Can you prove both are in a healthy state for the game?

Can you prove that one is clearly stronger than the other?

Can you prove that one is more deserving of buffs than the other?

And no, pick/win rate isn't the end all of the argument. A champions pick/ban/win rate can point to a problem with the champion, but does NOT conclusively prove anything other than a champion may be popular or unpopular.

If you want to make an argument against Lux, go for it, but you have to do so properly, not throw up a completely unrelated champion for comparison to try and prove a point that you lack the evidence to prove.

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20161 votes

Comparing champions is the only proper way to gauge their strengths and weaknesses.

They don't exist in a vacuum. They are all part of the same game and will interact with each other.

The WhamboozlerFeb 7, 20163 votes

Yes, and no. For instance... if you compare Quinn and Darius as top laners you might think Darius is weak, because a half-decent Quinn will crap all over him. Does that mean Darius is weak? How about if we're comparing Darius to Garen? Garen is his closest counterpart so they should be even, right? No. Each is better in certain situations. Expecting to deal with a lot of poke? Go Garen, his sustain is bananas. Expecting to deal with a team of tanky melee bruisers? Go Darius and Q yourself so much health you'll never die. Similar champs, similar mechanic (sustain), different uses.

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20162 votes

Where did I say comparing should be done regarding only two champions at the time?

You should compare a champion to their whole respectable class at least. That's why support Annie and solo lane Lulu were nerfed.

For that matter, Lux does fine aganist most if not all mid lane matchups, while Swain only aganist like five, mid and top total.

Kuroi86Feb 7, 20161 votes

Comparing champions is the only proper way to gauge their strengths and weaknesses.

Not when their abilities do completely different things.

You're comparing an apple and an orange.

Vistha KaiFeb 7, 20161 votes

Citing the comment literally above yours.

You should compare a champion to their whole respectable class at least.

The WhamboozlerFeb 7, 20162 votes

Ok, I'll keep my example going. Quinn is an adc. Sivir is an adc. Ashe is an adc.

Let's compare how they all handle the situation I mentioned earlier... laning top against Darius. Quinn fares ok if she's smart about it. Sivir is probably utterly boned since her auto range is practically his grab range. Ashe MIGHT do better but she's hardly in a great spot either. So we can only surmise now that.... Quinn is the best of these those three, right? No!

That's my point, logic is mutable and statistic can say almost anything. Comparing characters isn't much help either... just play them and see which you like.

Kuroi86Feb 8, 20161 votes

You're still trying to compare apples and oranges, only now you're talking about throwing in melons, grapes and bananas.

Vistha KaiFeb 8, 20162 votes

Fine, then tell me, wise man, how do you tell if a champion is strong or weak?

Considering we can't use statistics, nor matchups.

What other source do you have then?

Kuroi86Feb 8, 20161 votes

When did you bother using statistics?

All you've done is try to compare two champs who have nothing in common.

You compare one champ who's full on burst to another who acts more as a DPS champion.

You want to use stats, then compare burst champs, not a burst champ to a DPS champ.

If you want to compare overall champs to one another, match up their combat styles.

Burst champ to burst champ. Where does Lux' burst stand in comparison to other burst champs.

I said it in an earlier post.

If you want to make an argument against Lux, go for it, but you have to do so properly, not throw up a completely unrelated champion for comparison to try and prove a point that you lack the evidence to prove.

Comparing Lux to Swain is about as effective as comparing Lux to Kindred.

One of the best ways to find the info on a champion is to play them and record the information.

Typical build. Average damage. K/D/A. Win/Lose. Average CS. The more numbers you have and can compare to champions that are comparable, the better an argument you can form.

Vistha KaiFeb 8, 20162 votes

I love how you contradict yourself.

One time you say comparing champions is pointless, then compare two very similar champions, sumarize it with "that's why you can't compare champions" and then tell me to "compare champions that are comparable" by playing countless games myself, as if this data wasn't already readily available in every possible flavour.

And on top of that when I told you I meant comparing champions of their respective class, you said I'm wrong... and the next comment you repeated the same thing after me, but claimed it as your own.

doubleguacFeb 8, 20162 votes

They are a good example of favourism, though.

People are so willing to see a conspiracy when there are many simpler and more reasonable explanations.

Yes, Swain had a low pick rate; that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't deserve nerfs. At the very least, even if the nerfs weren't warranted, I'm sure Riot had a good reason to think they were. They have access to a tremendous amount of game data, and it is in their best interest to keep the game as balanced as they can.

People are constantly accusing Riot of favoritism and I just don't buy it. The only claim I even sort of buy is that Riot sometimes tries to keep very popular and "flashy" champions playable at competitive. Lux tends to only be really popular when she's strong. And she's not a super exciting, flashy champion to watch in competitive. Riot buffed her because they thought she needed buffs. If they think she needs nerfs in the future, I am confident they will give her some.

Vistha KaiFeb 8, 20162 votes

The thing is, even if Swain needed a nerf, it was exactly not what he was supposed to get nerfed.

Riot beats around the bush with nerfs. They nerf masteries, items, champion abilities unrelated to the problem which ends up making a champion in question utter garbage balanced around a counter-less, toxic mechanic.

As such the moment champion actually becomes strong, the mechanic mentioned gets nerfed and the ultimate result is the champion reaches Olaf'd, Eve'd, Kassadin'd or Sejuani'd( make your pick) tier.

I did play Lux before those buffs and I agree that she felt... clunky at times, but the amount of buffs was completely unwarranted and uncalled for.

As to why nobody at Riot has seen the problem with them? The hell if I know.

We can either call it incompetence or conspiracy theories (again, take a pick).

WizzleboomFeb 7, 20168 votes

I honestly don't mind fighting Lux because she has no mobility escapes. If she misses her snare and you have magic resist it's not an issue.

Mandang0Feb 6, 20166 votes

Just get rid of thunderlords and all of the balance-warping keystones, and then re-evaluate.

SaltyKrackaFeb 6, 201611 votes

Thunderlord's wasn't around 5 months ago. Hell, it wasn't around 3 months ago.

Mandang0Feb 7, 20162 votes

Funny, neither was Lux. Weird how that works out...

SaltyKrackaFeb 7, 201613 votes

...Uh. She totally was.

A Miss FortuneFeb 7, 20162 votes

He means you couldn't of seen her anyways after she kills you from 3 screens away.

Sire HippingtonFeb 7, 201611 votes

She had a rather high win-+play- rate after her e QoL-buff, and a really high winrate after the totally uncalled Q buff way befor preseason. Actually, her winrate droped by nearly1% in preseason...

lux succes has nothing to do with thunderlords.

LoL Ergo UrgotFeb 7, 20165 votes

http://blog.zacscy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/NoLollygagging.jpg

10TicklerFeb 7, 20165 votes

@Meddler, You've had Five and one-eighth of a season.

5 years worth of incontrovertible evidence, of patch after patch after patch.

It's time to stop lollygagging and nerf Irelia.

Definitely BaitFeb 6, 20164 votes

Well her pick rate in the lcs might help move things along. Hopefully golden glow takes out bjergsen to follow up the Pobelter lux game. Sadly I'm not holding my breath. Fox hasn't played well at all this season.

RetillinFeb 6, 20161 votes

I don't know. The pick/ban rate of Gangplank hasn't really moved him along...

Definitely BaitFeb 6, 20163 votes

He has been nerfed quite a bit since the rework. It's just he has a very hard kit to balance.

MissMikasaFeb 7, 20163 votes

Lol you call for Lux after 5 months? What about the people calling for Lee Sin nerfs the last how many years? Or all the people complaining about Zed. Lux isn't that big of a nuisance right now.

SaltyKrackaFeb 7, 20163 votes

No, I've been calling for Lux nerfs ever since her winrate shot up above 54% immediately after her buffs.

Riot's just been incredibly lazy about it.

MissMikasaFeb 7, 20165 votes

Buffs? The only changes I have watched Lux get are QoLs. They weren't buffs. From what I've seen Ahri is at 54% win rate just fine. She's not overbearing or having tons of people call for nerfs like Lee Sin, who mind you is at a 46% win rate and people are raging at how strong he is right now, not to mention he's been like this the past few years without major nerfs. And don't get me started on Zed.

Lux is fine. She doesn't need anything.

Also, I remember you. The guy that so meanly went after a guy for posting about Sona. If I were you, folks, stop listening to this guy. All he will do is attack you verbally.

SaltyKrackaFeb 7, 20162 votes

Oh wow, way to bring up irrelevant shit to distract from your (lack of) argument. But in order, just to get this over with: Ahri has also needed nerfs for a long time. Lee gets people complaining about him despite being relatively underpowered because he's just no fun to play against and has been in so many games for so long it's practically a kneejerk reflex for people. And Zed would be relatively fine if they would just nerf the shit out of him before they introduce this new item.

Now, back to the actual meat of the post, wherein I address the subject of this topic and not you being an idiot.

Let's look at the buffs Lux recieved, shall we?

V5.17:

Light Binding **Mana cost reduced to 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 from 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90. Secondary target will now receive full damage and snare duration. **

V5.12:

Prismatic Barrier ** New Effect: Lux now gains her initial shield instantaneously instead of after the 0.25 second cast time.** Lucent Singularity ** Slow zone radius increased to 350 from 300.** New Effect: Can now be activated while in-flight to immediately detonate upon arrival.

Now that all sure looks totally Quality of Life to me, right? Right? Mana, damage, and speed buffs are QoL, right? It's not as though it was a bunch of unnecessary power increases that immediately sent a relatively fine champ up to the top of the winrate/pickrate charts, right?