It's a very potent aoe benefit
It synergizes with another very potent aoe benefit
Mana regen on it is top tier. Other items are like 50% to 75%. Spellthief line's 3rd tier items are soon to follow.
What else even gets close to the potential power of this item anyway? Besides Locket...
Even if you nerf Redemption, if there's no suitable alternatives, you just nerf support as a whole and we'll still all build Redemption.
JackMcSnipeyz3 votesWhat's wrong with having a core support item? Every other class gets one, why cant support have high moments of clutch heals or fight changing AoE heals?
I think the only problem is when it's stacked, it should be 50% less effective on a 2nd redemption if you got healed recently
LostFr0st1 votesIt already gives a 1/2 effect debuff to redemptions that hit too soon afterwards.
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesOh, i didnt know that (i dont play support) maybe they should increase the penalty.
chipndip13 votesSUPPORT IS A ROLE, NOT A CLASS
JackMcSnipeyz3 votesOkay? How does that change anything i said in the OP?
chipndip13 votesROLES DON'T HAVE STAPLE ITEMS, CLASSES DO. NOT EVERYONE IN A LANE SHOULD BUILD THE EXACT SAME
JackMcSnipeyz2 votesNot every support builds it tho? I mean nothing is stopping them, but it isnt always the best choice. Just like you can buy black cleaver on every AD toplaner? Or IE on every marksman.
chipndip13 votesEvery support does build it, especially in higher elo play.
You don't even play support to pay attention to it to begin with, let alone how it works. What do you know?
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesI play adc, i share my lane with a lot of different supports and i know when my supports goes for utility (like locket and redemption) and when he goes for frontline/damage build.
Leona doesnt build it (regularly) same for tahm, thresh and naut. Barely any mage supports build it, there are plenty of supports who have better choices.
chipndip12 votesThresh does build it all the fucking time actually. Same for Tahm. Mage supports do in pro play.
Erockandroll1 votesROLES DON'T HAVE STAPLE ITEMS, CLASSES DO. NOT EVERYONE IN A LANE SHOULD BUILD THE EXACT SAME
The funny thing is,
Because Redemption has a good active, and can be built without wasting stats. (HP, regen, CDR, pretty much useful on any support) it becomes champion agnostic, and can be used effectively on everyone, same thing with locket. And personally, that isn't a problem. Redemption doesn't need to be stat bound to a particular class of supports.
That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't OP compared to your other options. But as a support main, I don't think it should be nerfed. Rather it should be the bar where all support items a measured. (Cause it's honestly a satisfying support item)
chipndip11 votesBut the fact that it's agnostic IS why it's bad, because if it's good, everyone has to build it.
Like, was the meta "fine" when every mage built Rylai's? No? Same thing to a tee here. There needs to be some discrimination between which type of support buys what. This is partly a strategy game. If you need a different setup, pick a different type of champ. You shouldn't be honky dory on any support building any type of item just for the sake of.
Erockandroll1 votesBut the fact that it's agnostic IS why it's bad, because if it's good, everyone has to build it.
Like, was the meta "fine" when every mage built Rylai's? No? Same thing to a tee here. There needs to be some discrimination between which type of support buys what. This is partly a strategy game. If you need a different setup, pick a different type of champ. You shouldn't be honky dory on any support building any type of item just for the sake of.
But on the same token, if a support item that's not nearly as agnostic, filled the same space on the OP latter, it would shift support viability based on said item, Which I would argue is even worse.
The issue should be less about who builds it, but rather it's impact compared to other item utilities. Both Locket and Redemption are team fight items, and how do they compare to single target boost items? (like Zeeks or Vow)
But ultimately, I still stand by what I say about setting Redemption as the bar. It's the only support item in a long time, that makes the support feel like they have an impact.
chipndip11 votesBut on the same token, if a support item that's not nearly as agnostic, filled the same space on the OP latter, it would shift support viability based on said item, Which I would argue is even worse.
It isn't. Blatantly. The treatment we give every other role in the game is based on the notion that we value "strategic diversity" in this game. If we say "It doesn't matter who you are as supports, just build this", then is that supporting the same type of fundamental game play that makes LoL fun as a game? Think of it like this: Tank supports don't always bring heals and shields, so they shouldn't be fond of heal/shield boosting items, while squishy supports shouldn't be too fond of more tank-friendly support items like Knight's Vow. If you think you're gonna need a Knight's Vow, then you should ALSO think you're not gonna play Janna this game, and on that note if you think you're going to need heals and shields...shouldn't you want a support that HAS heals and shields, rather than being able to buy both of these aspects?
The issue should be less about who builds it, but rather it's impact compared to other item utilities. Both Locket and Redemption are team fight items, and how do they compare to single target boost items? (like Zeeks or Vow)
Yeah, but those other support items are mostly tailored to specific groups, unlike these which are blatantly op and generalized. Athene's can't be used without a heal/shield of your own. Same for Ardent. Knight's Vow is half value if the holder is ranged. But Locket and Redemption are just bloody strong aoe team fight items just for the sake of. The problem's so obvious.
But ultimately, I still stand by what I say about setting Redemption as the bar. It's the only support item in a long time, that makes the support feel like they have an impact.
Redemption isn't a good bar. It's too damn high. If every support item was made to be as powerful as Redemption, support itemization would be bloody broken beyond belief...or Quad B for short.
Vith1 votesI beg to differ. No matter what class you play in the support role if you don't build support items your team is going to suffer and most likely flame you unless you're ridiculously ahead.
Top doesn't build "top items." Mid doesn't build "mid items." Even you you go adc as a non marksman you don't build "adc" items. As a support you always build support items. Except for outliers like brand who can do lots of damage without being fed or needing farm. For the most part it makes sense though right? Supporting really does feel like it is a class.
Iabusemyminions1 votesAs soon as I saw it, I knew there's nothing else to build. It just took me forever to see it.
Maybe that's because it's an item that gives you a shitload of health even though absolutely zero health items build into it. Like wtf? Give it a third wing with health requirements, raising its cost, and we might see some balance; Only fed supports can buy it.
The Lost Marbles2 votesMaybe that's because it's an item that gives you a shitload of health even though absolutely zero health items build into it.
chipndip13 votesI think half the issue is that people that never play support are usually the ones commenting on support itemization.
ChaddyFantome1 votesdamn straight
ChaddyFantome1 votesThe problem with redemption is the range imo. If it wasn't semi global, it wouldn't be so powerful