So after Rammus and Malphite Nautilus has become one of the best top laners

Malicious Metal·Feb 28, 2016·75 votes·7,115 views

Is it them being blatantly overtuned or is it something else?

I personally think it's more of a symptom of the current Meta, having triple ADC comps and squishy junglers left right and center. He just serves as important backbone to his team, being really damn tanky, having decently good wave clear, obscene amounts of Crowd control and providing engage as well as peel for his allied squishies.

He's currently sitting at a 56% win rate and is the highest picked top laner. Now, as a Nautilus Jungle Main I do feel Riot might nerf him and leave his Jungle state to die but that's just me. I personally wouldn't want him to get nerfed, especially after they nerfed one of my other favorite champs ().

What's your opinion on the Holy Diver's current state? Should he get away from nerfs or does he have to ride the tiger down the land of the Nerfhammer?

122 Comments

EndlessSorcererFeb 28, 201632 votes

I'd imagine it has something to with with us seeing low-CC and low-durability mid laners and junglers recently.

If you have an ADC/Devourer jungle and/or an ADC/assassin mid lane, your teams needs to get durability, initiation and/or peel somewhere. It's not like you need more damage on top of that, anyways.

Zero Skill TankFeb 28, 20163 votes

This.

Also those champs work great AGAINST those squishy AD comps.

Also tank armor items buffed.

Ageless NocturneFeb 28, 201631 votes

Holy diver

hmmfp...

ride the tiger

I see what you did there.

Malicious MetalFeb 28, 201619 votes

GOTTA GET AWAY!

StephenizgodFeb 28, 201627 votes

It is definitely not them being overtuned, they absolutely do not deserve to be nerfed. Their dominance is due to lack of counterpicking/counterbuilding and terrible all AD team comp.

SirHeavyScrotumFeb 29, 20165 votes

Well to be fair Malphite is just actually too strong. But other than him yeah Nautilus while eternally viable because of the raw amount of CC he brings to the table isn't over tuned, and Rammus was only good once season 6 came and people started picking shitty team comps and the games were a lot faster.

StephenizgodFeb 29, 20162 votes

Malphite is only strong if you pick the wrong champ into him. Pick a sustain or tanky AP champ against him and he can't do much in lane. Then just don't group up where he can knock-up multiple people.

Chaotic ReksFeb 28, 201624 votes

Malicious Metal

Now, as a Nautilus Jungle Main

MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE

Malicious MetalFeb 28, 201628 votes

Let me rephrase that. As a Mordkaiser top laner main with 440k mastery points I do find myself playing mostly nautilus if I do have to Jungle.

KingsgraveFeb 29, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qIv9fXBH,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-02-28T18:27:34.958+0000)

Let me rephrase that. As a Mordkaiser top laner main with 440k mastery points I do find myself playing mostly nautilus if I do have to Jungle.

Someone likes big dudes in armor with gigantic weapons

MhihnjFeb 29, 20161 votes

note: that's a diving suit. And no, it IS a diving suit.

RalanrFeb 29, 20165 votes

It's armor for the deep sea.

charcharmunroMar 1, 20162 votes

He's been down too long in that midnight sea.

elon wątrobaFeb 28, 20165 votes

Still a guy in metal suit :D.

BoswickFeb 28, 201619 votes

It's a symptom of the meta. Who would've guessed rammus/malphite/naut get more popular after triple adc comps become meta, amiright?

Even with Nautilus' winrate, i find it hard to believe these 3 are "blatantly overtuned" when they've basically been exactly the same for whole seasons now and their item builds have been nerfed across the board.

Stars ShaperFeb 28, 201616 votes

It's them being the onlyones being able to survive Tank Akali Fiora MasterYi

TehNACHOFeb 28, 20169 votes

Now, as a Nautilus Jungle Main

WAIT A SECOND

Malicious Metal

Oh I guess that still works.

Big LincolnFeb 28, 20168 votes

too much CC, too high base damage

honestly as someone who's played him for a long time, it's completely justified if he gets nerfs. especially if it shoves him out of support, i'd love if they pushed him out of bot and back into jungle

Malicious MetalFeb 28, 201614 votes

Something along the lines of nerfing his Riptide's base damage but giving it increased damage to monsters perhaps?

Big LincolnFeb 28, 20164 votes

that'd be good enough, honestly.

I've been playing Naut top and it's just.. not really that fair. I might be biased on it since I haven't really fought any meta top laner that can contest him, but that might just be the top lane meta being beneficial. would rather see buffs to struggling champions, but Riot never operates like that unless they weren't weak to begin with (see Xin Zhao)

Sahn UzalFeb 28, 20163 votes

He has a bunch of matchups that'll make his life a hell tbh.. summoner 31

Big LincolnFeb 28, 20164 votes

none that are in meta as far as i can tell

VulcanIsHereFeb 28, 20163 votes

Quinn

Big LincolnFeb 28, 20164 votes

that matchup is easy for naut, lol

SirHeavyScrotumFeb 29, 20163 votes

Naut hard counters Quinn... She's too squishy and she can't run from a Naut ult. Literally if she shows her face in lane he just ults her and 1 shots her. And the harassment in lane isn't very effective because Naut is just so damn tanky and Quinn is notorious for not being able to kill tanks.

charcharmunroFeb 29, 20161 votes

Singed, Galio and Zac are the only ones he has a below-50% winrate with, and Galio's so uncommon it's hard to really get any idea.

Sahn UzalMar 1, 20161 votes

Hmm... I'm personally expecting him to fall out of his FoTM status when the meta shifts a bit.. The same happened to Vlad a while ago, remember? He was FoTM and everyone was complaining about how OP and unfair he was, Riot didn't nerf him. The problem just solved itself...

Or maybe he should get nerfs... I guess I'm not on Riots balance team for a reason xP

We'll see :P summoner 31

Sahn UzalFeb 28, 20167 votes

If Nautilus were to get nerfed that would actually piss me off really bad. Toplane Nautilus gets eaten alive by counter picks. Jungle nautilus' LeeSin day Nidalee becomes Kindred even Quinn worse Elise whenever he gets counterpicked. Support Nautilus is not seeing that much play anymore, is it? summoner 31

KING OF MASKSFeb 29, 20166 votes

He's going to get nerfed. They're all going to get nerfed. Whether it's because rito hates tanks, or because they're the last remaining bulwarks against AD dominance... it doesn't even matter. They'll be nerfed. We all know it's not right. But there is no justice in this world. item 3070 Garen

OneSmoothDudeFeb 29, 20162 votes

And then you see that Garen has a 52.56% win rate and is op.gg's number one overall performance rating for top lane.

So there is some justice. :D

SpecterVonBarenFeb 29, 20166 votes

Top lane is where neglected junglers go to die. That is all.

ThwartinMaPlansFeb 28, 20164 votes

Omg did he just make a Dio reference for nautilus?

ltmetalFeb 29, 20164 votes

Stop nerfing the symptoms and start nerfing the disease. Once you aren't supposed to run double ADC in solo queue, then Rammus, Malphite, and Nautilus will be balanced on their own.

charcharmunroFeb 29, 20164 votes

I mean, I'm a Singed main. I am entirely fine with Naut and Malph being top-lane FotM. Rammus is... Iffy.

SirHeavyScrotumFeb 29, 20162 votes

Wanna see a Singed main cringe?

Ryze

charcharmunroFeb 29, 20162 votes

The only hope for Singed against Ryze pre-nerf and Fiora is "Hope they're shit at the champion", it feels like. Also, fuck Nasus. He builds Spirit Visage and you are literally just a gnat to him.

SirHeavyScrotumMar 1, 20161 votes

Man I always feel like with Nasus v Singed that neither can really do anything to the other, Nasus can never kill, nevertheless dive Singed, and Singed can't do shit to Nasus after the Spirit Visage, but he can keep Nasus off his towers so it just feels super boring lol.

charcharmunroMar 1, 20161 votes

Singed vs. Nasus, assuming neither gets fed early on, is a farm lane for both of them. Singed CAN shut Nasus out of teamfights pretty well, though, especially with a Rylai's.

SirHeavyScrotumMar 1, 20162 votes

Nasus What's item 3512 teamfights item 1056 precious

Cowgirl EdFeb 28, 20162 votes

Nautilus ALWAYS needed nerfs, his base damage is insane and is just retarded. He's gonna get nerfed soon (for this reason AND because he stops the so beloved adcs)

Zenthon PrimeFeb 28, 20164 votes

This is common trend for tanks. If a tank is OP, 95% of the time the damage is too good.

Quite bluntly, if you build no damage items, you should be hitting like a wet noodle. Modern tanks.....well, they hit a lot harder than that.

swordishforceFeb 28, 20169 votes

Tanks are supposed to have decent base damages otherwise they wouldn't be able to build full tank and still be a threat. Especially for tanks who aren't loaded with cc like naut.

Zenthon PrimeFeb 28, 20163 votes

That's the thing. Tanks loaded with CC end up being overpowered when they have decent damage, because the threat as tanks isn't supposed to be damage, but CC.

Baron of BreadFeb 28, 20162 votes

Depends on the tank, but this is certainly the case for Nautilus.

ManiacalCoyoteFeb 28, 20162 votes

That's Nautilus true!

Nasus has CC and wonderful damage.

Although, he does have balance: if he doesn't farm the **** out of his lane, he's worthless.

Zenthon PrimeFeb 28, 20165 votes

Nasus is a juggernaut, not a tank. Actually a fairly significant difference (Nasus builds a damage item usually and has a single CC skill).

SirHeavyScrotumFeb 29, 20165 votes

I mean he has a single target slow, that's not enough to make him a tank. Darius has two slows and a displacement but no one considers him a tank.

WadeWilson1337Feb 29, 20162 votes

You cant really compare whither to Nautilus...

Sire HippingtonFeb 29, 20162 votes

i agree, there are serveral reason for them to perform well other than beeing overtuned.

They work very well for engageing on carries and have overall good mechanics vs them like the massive as slow from malph or the inbuilt thornmail from rammus, in nautis case they offer massive peeling for the own carrie, but most of all they are really save.

If you have a tank like that top, you can be pretty sure that he won't feed, and he will be somewhat effective even if behind in farm. This prettymuch removes toplane as a risiko factor, allowing your jungler to focus purely on bot/mid, and if your carry gets a lead you have as good as won, same with a snowballing assasins. They also offer rather strong tp ganks to help getting your carrie ahead, and if you have a damage focused jungler like nida or lee, a champ like naut can give them free kills vs more squishy laners post 6.

So righ offer alot benefits, they suplement the usually rather damage focused low cc teamcomps, they are save, they have strong synergie with agressive junglers, and they either have great peeling or engage, or both.

That beeing said, i do think naut is a bit overtuned. He offers relible engage, catchpotential, peeling, solid damage, waveclear, good early trades and good tankiness(as far as tankiness goes, which still means a 5+ item adc kills him in a matter of seconds) i think they should shift some damage from his E back to the W, which would help his jungle clear whil it hits the waveclear and harras/short trades in lane and his reliable aoe damage in teamfights, while keeping good potential damage if he's alowed to AA duering W.

also with the rather stupid metagolem rising, they have an easy life in lane. Really, outside of fiora i haven't seen that built ever working out on usually squishy champ, and fiora also works well with a lifesteal focused built or other bruiser builts... just saw a 'juggernaut-akali' face rammus top some time ago...she run out of energie and ultsteps befor anyone even was at 50%...