Why vayne has the 2nd highest adc winrate?

KONO RUBICK DA·Aug 31, 2015·6 votes·941 views

lane bully should be able to destroy her completly, i wonder why there is a paradox since vayne has a bad early ga...

oh wait

21 Comments

luckmalloryAug 31, 20152 votes

You do realize there is more to a game than the early game and that contributes to win percentage right?

KONO RUBICK DAAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You do realize there is more to a game than the early game and that contributes to win percentage right?

you do realize that what i mean is destroying her early game won't do %%%%?

luckmalloryAug 31, 20151 votes

Yes it will, if the game goes past 30 min than she will get strong. Thats her point, if you destroy her early game you will dominate dragon control and team fights. If you dont close out the game from that domination and let her catch up to her late game build you deserve what you get.

Also, Draven beats her at every stage of the game, pick him

KONO RUBICK DAAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes it will, if the game goes past 30 min than she will get strong. Thats her point, if you destroy her early game you will dominate dragon control and team fights. If you dont close out the game from that domination and let her catch up to her late game build you deserve what you get.

Also, Draven beats her at every stage of the game, pick him

draven can't damage darius/garen safely and can't kill them in 3 shots.

also, once vayne has BRK, it's almost if you have a 3 sloted draven

luckmalloryAug 31, 20152 votes

Are you for real? If they both have full build and last whisper draven can two Axe darius or garen. His crits do near 1.5k damage.

Also if vayne has Botrk and Draven has IE Draven will pub stomp vayne. Dont even make me do a stat and damage comparison.

At any point in the game Draven can out damage Vayne assuming he isnt 3 or more kills behind. Late game if draven hits one axe on vayne she loses. If it crits it can very easily almost one shot her. Draven has the highest damage of all ADC's there is no comparison.

MarthianAug 31, 20151 votes

He honestly needs nerfs along with Vayne for that specific reason: His axe doesn't have much counterplay for the insane amount of damage it deals (not every carry has CC). He's good at any point of the game, Vayne less so (though her supposed weakness of a early game no longer exists.)

ZephyrDrakeAug 31, 20152 votes

because ADC lane bullies don't exist anymore, every single one has been nerfed to oblivion and now have ok early games at best. Vayne has a bad early game that is easily punishable but since everyone who is supposed to be able to take advantage of her weak early game can't do tat anymore due to how butchered they are then Vayne can just do whatever she wants for the most part

MatezoideAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

because ADC lane bullies don't exist anymore, every single one has been nerfed to oblivion and now have ok early games at best. Vayne has a bad early game that is easily punishable but since everyone who is supposed to be able to take advantage of her weak early game can't do tat anymore due to how butchered they are then Vayne can just do whatever she wants for the most part

So why is Twitch's win-rate for games that last 0-25 minutes unchanged?

ZephyrDrakeAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So why is Twitch's win-rate for games that last 0-25 minutes unchanged?

because Twitch is a much worst Vayne? literally every single ADC can take advantage of Twitch since he is simply too weak both in the early game and late game. Why bother picking Twitch when Jinx, Vayne, Trist and Kog are much better late game ADCs

MatezoideAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

because Twitch is a much worst Vayne? literally every single ADC can take advantage of Twitch since he is simply too weak both in the early game and late game. Why bother picking Twitch when Jinx, Vayne, Trist and Kog are much better late game ADCs

So Lane Bullies are trash.

But Twitch is still bullied.

It is almost like he actually has a weak early game and you shouldnt need to be a ''Lane Bully'' to beat hyper carries early on.

ZephyrDrakeAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So Lane Bullies are trash.

But Twitch is still bullied.

It is almost like he actually has a weak early game and you shouldnt need to be a ''Lane Bully'' to beat hyper carries early on.

Twitch has way more than a weak early game, he has a weak EVERYTHING unless he somehow manages to get some kills early

MrfishiiAug 31, 20151 votes

It's because ADC lane bullies are weak now, allowing her to survive. Graves, Lucian, Ezreal all were meta picks and got nerfed. Lets not forget the meta picks for support, bunch of tanks which work well with Vayne; no lane bully supports (ex. Zyra, Sona, etc).

Vayne never got buffed, it's just the meta has shifted. If she's OP, she been OP for years.

BestTristMyHausAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Vayne never got buffed, it's just the meta has shifted. If she's OP, she been OP for years.

The same thing happened to Tristana, but that didn't stop Riot from reworking her.

MrfishiiAug 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mahou Girl Mami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qGe3Fzqi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-31T21:05:30.209+0000)

The same thing happened to Tristana, but that didn't stop Riot from reworking her.

For good reason. Tristana was in a bad spot as a champion. Tristana only auto attacked before with a DoT that didn't fit with her bursty play style nor her actual character (now she shoots a canon and uses bombs), on top of that AP Trist was never fun to play against. In addition, her hyper late game had no weakness with her added attack range, reset jump and knock back ult.

Out of all of that, Vayne only has a knockback/stun, and Vayne definitely has some exploitable weaknesses (susceptible to point and click abilities, no immediate dashes/dodges).

DreadlocksAug 31, 20151 votes

I think champions that carry hard in the late game generally have higher winrates. I find it funny that people use winrates to justify needing a nerf (like vayne) but champions like lee sin who has a low winrate is also a champion people want nerfed. Both have high playrates so that isn't a valid argument. My point is, if people are going to say winrate doesn't mean anything, then stop using it as a tool to get champions nerfed.

I personally think it means something, but it often differs from what most think. Win rate to me shows how well X champion is at carrying in Solo Q. And not much more than that.

MarthianAug 31, 20152 votes

Except Vayne has a great win rate and very high play rate. The supposed weakness of her early game is non-existant now, and rushing BoRK is way better for her than other carries having to rush IE.

MrfishiiAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except Vayne has a great win rate and very high play rate. The supposed weakness of her early game is non-existant now, and rushing BoRK is way better for her than other carries having to rush IE.

I said it before, she fits into the meta well. Back in the "League of Assassins" Vayne was nothing, even with BotRK and lower CD on her ult. Sure Vayne's win rate is sometimes slightly higher than other ADC (only by 1%, sometimes less) but that's expected. Vayne's play-rate is definitely much higher than other ADC's though, but that doesn't mean she's stronger in any way. Vayne's early game weakness still exists for sure too, just it isn't exploited as much, again due to meta picks; you would never see a Vayne win lane against an Ezreal and Sona lane.

DreadlocksAug 31, 20151 votes

What about Jinx? Ahri? Janna? Riven? Blitzcrank? Xin Zhao? Do all 6 of these champions need nerfs too because they have a high winrate and playrate?

MarthianSep 1, 20151 votes

Did I ever say they didn't? (On Xin, Sated needs fixed before he's looked at. It made him and a few others way too good with it.)

DreadlocksSep 1, 20151 votes

Then i suppose those with high playrates and low winrates need buffs? I'm not understanding your argument very well. Please further explain. =]

MarthianAug 31, 20151 votes

Don't think Lane bullies have to do with it (Miss Fortune chunks her pretty hard.)

The problem is:

She doesn't have a weak early game. Period. Her E and Q are some very safe abilities, not to mention they can help set up for a kill early on. Her W may have some high values early on too.
BoRK rush is ridiculously broken on her. While other carries generally have to rush IE and skip out on sustain for a big damage boost, she gets everything she could ever want from rushing BoRK: Attack speed for her W, sustain, a great active, and health% on auto attacks. And she gets just as much (if not more) of a damage boost from doing this than most other carries.