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Mordekaiser builds diversity: need for advices

DeathBurst··2 votes·1,430 views

A very short bit of context: I mostly play tanky champs (either true tanks or Juggernaut), and mostly Top/Sup (with a bit of Jungle). I'm a very bad ADC, and I really love creative team comps/breaking the meta, so when Riot tried to push Morde carry bot lane, I was really happy.

But I don't know what to build with this guy. I can see a lot of things being good, but what is best?

Also, I know @"Malicious Metal" is pushing hard for Morde's viability in solo lanes, so maybe some builds are better for solo lanes, and some better for when you have a support?

So, below are a few builds. Which one is better and when/on what lane?

AD Tanky: A build without AP at all, pretty tanky and your shield is very large, but may lack offensive power. item 3025 into boots, then you should be able to stick to ennemy, and the early armor is good for tanking the ADC. Then item 3053 for tankyness and improved Spellblade procs. Finally item 3748 for the basic attack reset (easier Q) and the synergy with all the tankyness built. Add Defense items when needed (item 3143 for the slow, item 3742 for the MS, item 3065 for the CDR and increased lifelink/W healing)

Alternatives: item 3078 +item 3022 instead of item 3025 The CDR on item 3071 looks cool, the health too, but you can't proc the passive really well, so I'm not too sure about it. Maybe item 3083 for an even bigger shield and Titanic proc, but you need MR+Armor too. On the other hand item 3026 is cool for the revive but it has no health at all, so does not improve your shield. Fozen Hearth is definitely not good (wasted mana + no health)

AP bruiser: A build with AP instead of AD, more damage, but less health. This is the build I used most often. item 3116 into boots (starting with the item 1011 if the lane is hard), for sticking power. Then item 3146 for sustain+damage and item 3151 for damage+a bit of health, and the synergy with Rylai. (It seems to work better in this order, but I'm not sure why.) Once again, add Defense Items when needed, but for an AP build, item 3001 and item 3157 are viable alternatives for MR/Armor resp. Warmog is not as good as in the AD build, though, since you don't have Titanic.

Alternatives: There is no SpellBlade proc at all in this build, so maybe item 3100 could be useful and has %MS, instead of Liandry's. item 3285 is probably good if you are ahead, for the heavy AP, and it has %MS too. item 3152 instead of item 3146 if you really want CDR and less sustain. item 3135 or item 3089 may be useful, since this build is full AP.

Hybrid Attack Speed: Morde doesn't scale very well with AS, but given his Q and hybrid scalings on Q and E, maybe it's worth a try? I did not actually tried this build in-game, so I'm not sure what's the best order. item 3124 item 3146 item 3115 item 3078 item 3053 and boots.

Alternatives: It's not very AP-heavy, so maybe item 3153 instead of item 3115 . Sterak is here only because of Triforce, so maybe a real defense item instead?

Hybrid bruiser: This is basically the build recommended by Riot, and I had reasonable success with it, but I'm starting to think one of the non-hybrid build above is better, when you focus specifically on AD or AP. Do you agree? Here it is for reference. item 3078 into boots, then item 3116 . item 3116 first is also possible if you are winning your lane. Then item 3151 if you are far ahead, or Defense Items otherwise (item 3742 is my favorite, but item 3143 is situationally better). item 3053 because you have Triforce. Add one Defense item to finish the build (MR if you have built Armor in 4th item, or whatever fit the situation best otherwise).

The starter issue: Is there a consensus about item 3302 as a starter in Duo-lane? For me, it is really the best, but some teammates berated me for buying it as a carry, or thought I would play support (then berated me for farming). Also, do you ever upgrade it into item 3097 ?

P.S. : It's really hard to play Morde bot, at least in low Silver like me. Half the time, people are not even aware Riot intended him to play bot and they flame you for troll pick. Add onto that that it's really a different job to support for Morde than for a common ADC, and that your support may be doing a sh*t job just because he is not used to it. Any tips on this area, guys? And what supports work the best for you? I prefer tanky engage sup (leo, tahm), but sona/jana/nami seem to work too.

30 Comments

Jotunheimr1 votes

Tanky Ap: Rylias, Liandrys, alacrity swifties, Deadman's, Warmogs, Deathcap.

AS and CDR and mixed(for huehues): Rylias, Nashors, Guinsoos, Cleaver, Swifties, Liandys.

Tanky AD: Rylias, Cleaver, steraks, Deadmans, Titanic, Swfties

My old build: Warmogs, liandrys, rylias, Infinty edfe, deathcap, swifties. Hue.

Speedkaiser: Rylias, Daedmans, Ludens, Lichbane, alacrity swifties, phantom dancer(you choose) and gives about 500 movespeed.

DeathBurst1 votes

Are you sure about Cleaver? It procs on physical damage instances, and all your spells are magic damage, so you can only proc it with your basic attacks. In the AS build, maybe it's not too hard, but in the Tanky AD build, I'm really skeptical. And it shreds Armor, so it doesn't improve the damage from your skills, for the same reason.

Deathcap in the tanky AP, I'm not sure. I added it to the main post, but I still think a Void Staff with MR Pen is better to increase your damage, since you only have 2 other AP items (Rylais/Liandry). And lots of other AP items have interesting utility (Luden for the %MS, Zhonya to wait for your CDs, ...)

Old build, you mean, before the rework?

Speedkaiser seems fun if you can pull it out, but is it really efficient in a close game, or just something you use in a stomp? (Like full MR Pen Mundo with Rilay?) Also, isn't Triforce better than Phantom Dancer? The MS is more reliable, and the Spellblade proc is pretty neat.

Jotunheimr1 votes

Keep in mind i ryn 2 movespeed quints.

Honestly, Ive been rushing nashors in asc role and play safe. The AS for q procs and AP.

Cleaver is for later if you are willing, so in the mixed build you have this item for phage passive, 20% more cdr(40% total with nashors), health to boost shield, more AA damage, and a stronger q.

It works, but SV is good against an AP threat(gives you CDR, health, Extra healing, and regen.

Best start for me this preseason: Nashors, Rylias, and Guinsoos. Sooo awsome. Just gotta know how to time your heals and have ghost and flash to stick. That AS allows you to have fast qs, and the damage ups your AA AND abilities, plus stacks from Guinsoos. More AP means better heals.

Liandrys is amazing with ult and DFT. Ive been going AS mixed bruiser with CDR. It works well.

Nashors, Rageblade, Rylias, Liandrys, Alacrity Swifties, Cleaver/SV

Halarious stuff right there

Jotunheimr1 votes

Keep in mind i ryn 2 movespeed quints.

Honestly, Ive been rushing nashors in asc role and play safe. The AS for q procs and AP.

Cleaver is for later if you are willing, so in the mixed build you have this item for phage passive, 20% more cdr(40% total with nashors), health to boost shield, more AA damage, and a stronger q.

It works, but SV is good against an AP threat(gives you CDR, health, Extra healing, and regen.

Best start for me this preseason: Nashors, Rylias, and Guinsoos. Sooo awsome. Just gotta know how to time your heals and have ghost and flash to stick. That AS allows you to have fast qs, and the damage ups your AA AND abilities, plus stacks from Guinsoos. More AP means better heals.

Liandrys is amazing with ult and DFT. Ive been going AS mixed bruiser with CDR. It works well.

Nashors, Rageblade, Rylias, Liandrys, Alacrity Swifties, Cleaver/SV

Halarious stuff right there

I ised to do speedkaiser, but remeber I run 2 movespeed quints on him always. Sticking to opponents OP. Literally had people tell me Morde is too fast lol

DeathBurst1 votes

Triforce seems like a better Phage upgrade than Cleaver, to me.

Thanks for the tips about Speedkaiser, maybe I'll give it a try.

About the hybrid AS build, I fear that Guinsoo will be nerfed hard soon, though. Also, no Gunblade at all ?

Jotunheimr1 votes

Triforce was changed, and crit does not proc with q. Its not goid in him anymore, especcially after Sheen changes.

Speedkaiser is nice, but with the Guinsoos and Nashors, you can almost always have shield from hitting so fast and doing such juicy damage.

Im telling you, try it. aS is so nice on him, and stacks from guinsoos are amazing.

DeathBurst1 votes

Sheen gives CDR instead of AP, it's still good. And Crit doesn't proc on Q bonus damage, but it still procs on your base AD as usual. Black Cleaver simply has no synergy at all with his kit or the other items you suggest (guinsoo deals magic damage too), so really I can't see any reason to build Cleaver instead of Triforce, if you want to upgrade your Phage.

I trust you that the hybrid build is good. But I really think Guinsoo will be nerfed next patch, so yeah, maybe not worth to invest in that build? And you don't build Gunblade at all when you go for Hybrid AS?

Jotunheimr1 votes

Gunblade.. I have before, but it takes so long to get, and guinsois gives me what I need when paired with Nashor's. Sure it may be nerfed soin, BUT the principle of stacking mixed damage and AS is great on Morde. Gives for many huehues. If you want tri, go for it. Yes the base AD still crits, but that AS is needed. If I want spell vamp, I go Will oA. For a slow I go Rylias, a MUST on Morde. My mixed AS build carries hard when I go adc. But, you need a Blitz, Theesh, Leo, or Than as supp for adc Mord to work. The AS mixed build is OP. YOU CAN ALWAYS SHIELD HUEHUE. The damage is insane and you hit your q reallllly fast, and even if Fuinsoos gets nerfed, hitting harder and faster is great. The AP stacking boosts all abilities, the AD stacking boosts AA hits and as a result your q, and with how q is coded you get 3 stacks from q, not 2. Even if nerfed, Mirde still uses it better than other mixed champs. You can even take towers solo, and melt them when with an ally.

DMP is also goid for defense and speed. If you run DFT keystone, Liandrys is a must to add to your ult, while geanted health to boost your shield. Thats why I like tanky AP items like Rylias and Liandrys. They are offense and defense. Nashors and Guinsoos ramps up damage to God tier. Swifties reletivly early for speed, and a situational defense item, normally

Jotunheimr1 votes

Morde needs AS in some form to acually be a powerful threat. Without it, you may die before you kill one or two of them. Also, the AS and AP lets you keep up your shield nicely, especially mid and late. If you go AS and tanky/bruiser AP, your shield stays up much better, and CDR helps ability spam and as such more shield for longer.

Khâmul1 votes

anti-ADkaiser item 3151 item 3116 item 1313 item 3143 item 3065 item 3075 (it works really well)

DeathBurst1 votes

There is Spirit, which is MR not Armor, and I'm not fan of pure Armor items since you need health for a bigger shield. Deadman's instead of Thornmail? The passive from Deadman's is also pretty good for Morde. Sunfire is also a good item with Armor+HP if the slows from Rilay/Randuin are enough (but how do you reach them in the first place to apply the slow?).

Also, Liandry's first? It seems strange to me, you don't need the MR Pen so early, and without the slows from Rylai, the burn is weak.

Merxamers2 votes

Getting Thornmail is fine; each of the other items gives health. You probably wouldn't want to rush a completed Liandrys, but getting an early Haunting Guise is pretty cost efficient; i could see something like:

item 1011 -> item 3136 ->item 3020 ->item 3116 , etc.

I've had some success building hybrid AD/AP tanky items, but i'm honestly not sure item 3078 is justifiable on him anymore; i'll have to try it i guess. I have tried item 3748 on him, and it felt a lot less effective than i would have expected. Then again, I haven't played a ton of games with him since the rework (perma-banned to suddenly never played, hue)

Jotunheimr1 votes

Titanic does not aa reset like its supposed to on Morde to help get off q's for sone reason. This could be because first q is already an AA reset.

DeathBurst1 votes

It's a bug specifically on Morde, or a general bug with Titanic?

Jotunheimr1 votes

It's a bug I presume. Zin zoa uses it to get 3 hits off rapidly; Morde cant do that for his q.

Khâmul2 votes

{quoted}

There is Spirit, which is MR not Armor, and I'm not fan of pure Armor items since you need health for a bigger shield. Deadman's instead of Thornmail? The passive from Deadman's is also pretty good for Morde. Sunfire is also a good item with Armor+HP if the slows from Rilay/Randuin are enough (but how do you reach them in the first place to apply the slow?).

Also, Liandry's first? It seems strange to me, you don't need the MR Pen so early, and without the slows from Rylai, the burn is weak.

When I say anti AD,it's against a team with a majority of ad damages.The spirit gives health (good for shield), CDR (which will allow you to use your E more often) and Better self healing (with your W and R). so it's not a waste. Secondly,I don't buy these items in this order.lyandris is for late,and I saw that pene boots are better than berserk boots for example. With my build,the shield is about 900.if I take deadman's plate,it won't be a lot higher but since thornmail gives more armor and make adc kill themselves(or helps me a lot).

There's also one more reason: I have more armor,it's more worth than deadman's plate because your shield is hp ,so the armor make it more efficient than hp themselves :)

Malicious Metal1 votes

The thing is Morde scales extremely well with AP but can't build full AP builds due to his abysmal low base stats, building AD is also detrimental with his ultimate scaling solely with AP.

The Build I usually rock is the following; item 3116 This is a must buy on Morde, period! item 3146 Gives you all the sustain you need, a burst damage active slow with low CD and adds A LOT of damage item 3053 A great offensive defensive item, Morde scales with total AD making this a damage spike as well as giving him a lot more durability item 3157 Morde is prone to getting focused down and the AP scales well with your abilities. Helps to wait out sticky situations item 3065 Overall great stats as well as synergizing extremely well with Gunblade and Morde's ultimate heal.

Boots of choice, I usually get either Merc's or Tabi though.

Other great item options are; item 3742 item 3001 item 3124 item 3078 (Not as good as before 5.22 though) item 3026

Or If you just want to hit those 60% max HP damage ultimates take this item 3089

DeathBurst1 votes

I tried Sterak a few times, generally when I'm ahead and I can't decide between Armor and MR, so I build Sterak for the HP. But I find it unsatisfying. Deadman looks much more useful to me.

Recently, I also tried to buy a hextech revolver early when I'm behind, before completing my Rilay. It seems to work relatively well. Do you use Vampirism or Natural Talent, in Masteries?

Triforce is cool, and at least much better than Cleaver as a Phage upgrade, as I was saying in another post, but I am more and more convinced than pure AP is better than an AP/AD mixed build.

If you wanted a high CDR build with Morde, what would you use? Spirit is the only item with CDR and good synergy that I can think of... Maybe put CDR in the Runes instead?

DeathBurst1 votes

Bump :) Can you answer these questions, please?

  • What starter items?
  • Vampirism or Natural Talent? (And why?)
  • If I want CDR, what should I build?

Related to the CDR, is Gunblade so much better than WotA? WotA has CDR, and it is much cheaper. So you trade the CDR for the active, and you can buy your next item earlier, to compensate the lost damage.

Finally, you never buy Liandry? It has MagicPen and synergy with Rylai+your ult, so I'd thought it would be a rather common buy.

Thank you :)

Malicious Metal1 votes

I usually start either cloth 4 against AD opponents or boots 4 when against magic damage dealers or skillshot reliant champs

Natural talent gives both AD and AP, both stats morde scales extremely well with. Besides, the 2% spellvamp would only be a third as effective on AOE

Spirit visage is a great pick up, lucidity are decent too.

Gunblade is more slot efficient and provides a lot more damage as well as a low CD burst spell slow. Cdr isn't as good on morde as it used to be. Pre rework i got SV and Will for 25% cdr

I'm not a big fan of liandries due to morde lacking reliable DoT. It's decent but there are better options and i tend to build Hybrid anyways^^

Hope that helps.

DeathBurst1 votes

Sure it helps :)

Well, more CDR means more spells means more shield, no? I often feel like with just a tiny bit more CDR, I could have cast that last E that would have given me a full shield and saved me in that big teamfight... (3 champs hit = 75%, without even counting the shield conversion from the damage)

So post-rework, only Spirit and Lucidity for 20 % CDR, and nothing else is worth in your opinion?

About Gunblade slot-efficiency, sure, but do you really get to full build regularly, since pre-season?

Malicious Metal1 votes

Oddly enough I do.

Global gold was increased and Gunblade's price remained the same. Its build path is great too^^

The problem with CDR is that it's mostly located on mana items, which sucks :(

DeathBurst1 votes

For the record, CDR items without mana:

  • both Aegis upgrade
  • Death's Dance
  • Face of the Mountain
  • Ionian Boots of Lucidity
  • Nashor's tooth
  • Spirit Visage
  • Black Cleaver
  • Will of the Ancient
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade
  • Warrior jungle enchant

But Death's Dance, Cleaver and Youmuu (and Warrior) are all out of question because they synergize with physical damage, not magic. That leaves WotA (Gunblade is better, you say), Nashor (you don't really want AS), Spirit and Lucidity (OK), FotM (maybe if you start in duo-lane?) and Aegis upgrades (not bad, but another MR item on top of Spirit?).

A Sheen upgrade may also be an option, despite the mana.

DeathBurst1 votes

Also, no one replied about the starter item :p

Any advice?

Jotunheimr1 votes

I typically start Amp tome and a potion. I go null magic if against AP in lane

DeathBurst1 votes

I suppose you play in solo lane? Or you start with amp tome even in duo lane?

Jotunheimr1 votes

I will normally always start amp tome, but I tried using AD runes, and started with a long sword, taking ghost and ignite. I was laning top against gnar yesterday, I hid in the bushes lv. 1, and started q. I had warded so I was not seen. When he got right past half out in the middle of lane, I flipped ghost and turned on q. Got all 3 off, and igited him. He slmost died, but I just zoned him instead, which is okay. I used this to gain a csing advantage. I dont reccommend this ballzy technique tho, because the minions are powerful. I ended getting minion blocked and killed not by gnar, but by minions.

In solo lane, I'd say its best to start e first. Use as a poking tool and last hit tool. Than q, than e again. THAN w.

Anyways, I went solo Mord, got a handful of doubles, handful of triples, and a Quadra. It would have been a penta, but the last guy ran away. Hahaha they where trying focus me.

I built AS, CDR, and the tanky on hit AP items. Nashors and Guinsoos allowed me to get those kills when I was focused. It was a hard early laning phase for the most part, until I got ult. Than I could kill gnar very easily.

I remeber yi ganking me. Had the AS by this point. Took him out just in time. Timing the heal and shield OP. Got a bouble, farmed more, and got Guinsoos.

Funny thing is, I was being hardcore flamed for even choosing beloved Mordekaiser. Minions got me twice early, and I had the enemy gamk me A LOT early. They where telling me wtf Mord is not OP anymore, to which I told them I just like the champion. They kept flami g me.

Than I started to snowball and asked them who else they know that can play solo Mord this well, huehue. I kept getting doubles and triple fast as hell. Huehue. Always shield, never die.

Even after my Quadrakill peel for my dying team, they still told me I was bad, and didn't know how to play because I choose Mord.

I literally carried my team and I didn't even go adc.

MORDEKAISER IS NOT A BAD CHAMPION, you just gotta know your timing for things.

He does need a base stat buff tho, or a tweaked stronger solo w. Duo w can stay the same.

Poske1 votes

Rylai>Gunblade > whatever (Ability power stuff) ussualy lyandri/rabadon work

Dont build trinity Old trinity sucked on morde New trinity is Ultra trash for morde

Start with boots + pots

DeathBurst1 votes

Ah interesting, I never thought about starting with boots. I feel like for the first few levels you don't want to fight, you just want to farm, so you want sustain above MS, and Relic Shield is better. But boots are definitely worth a try.

Jotunheimr1 votes

Boots and pots is great for helping dodge skill shots early on, and mord needs the mobility. Personally, I run ghost and flash normally, so I'll get boots second back.

But I also use 2 movespeed quints always on Mord, so it's like having boots already. That way instead of buying boots, I get damage to be one step closer to the item Im rushing, although I normally get boots first back and finish them second or third back.

If you do start boots, start e, last hit, spam shield and ALWAYS hit e on champ and minions for shield gain and poke when you can; if its reletivly safe

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