"Every new champions is super overloaded!"

Mira Arya Enthe·Jan 3, 2017·15 votes·2,188 views

Yes, yes they are. As opposed to being one dimensional like Garen, faulty like Galio or extremely stat-check like Olaf. Point? Riot is trying to advance this videogame, and making it more fun, fast pace, interesting, flashy and intense is one of their goals. And sure, some of the new designs result in problems, but you know... losing just because stat-check Morde was OP in S1 was any more fun. The difference is, you have outplay options for new champions as other new/or just generally functional champions. Whereas the older designs were simply "I have more numbers than you! I win!"

As somebody who has been playing since early S2, I can say that this game has only mostly improved and advanced, with some hiccups like dynamic queue, autofill and removing draft in EUNE and other servers. But otherwise, the game has moved forward, champions are more intricate, gameplay is more rewarding and we are no longer having 50-70 minute farm fests to get the stat advantage = win. Games close out quicker, supports no longer are ward donkeys, oh! and on the matter of balance we haven't had a single champion reach 90% pick or ban since Kassawin.

So before you QQ that another skill based champion with a lot of combat moves have been added to the game. Be glad that stat check monsters like Trynd and Xin have mostly fallen out of favor and games are not entirely determined by numbers.

31 Comments

Titanium70Jan 3, 201716 votes

And how is

"I have more abilities than you! I win!"

now better or worse than

"I have more numbers than you! I win!"

?.... [zombie-nunu-bummed]

It's exactly the same problem. If you win because you hit for 200 DMG instead 100 or if you win because you have this one gimmick that deals additional 100 DMG doesnt matter at all.

Sure a Yasuo flying through the Minion wave is fun for the pilot. But the other one has to play whackamole...

All those sometimes retarded Kits achieve is emphasize mechancial skill/reaction over mental skill/tactic - you dont need to think about how a trade has to be done if you can react to every single action. You dont have to react to every single action if you already planed the trade. In one scenario you're screwed if can't react in the other you're screwed if you misjudged the situation. OFC nothing is always Black or White.

Riot has to decide which way they will go. But to be honest - I actually started playing League instead of CoD because of it strategy elements.

As a Developer/Politician/Artist or w/e running after the majority you're risking to lose the loyal minority. You always need both - that's the magic of having success. Riot has success right now - I hope it will stay this way.

GULAG 4 UJan 3, 20171 votes

Mira doesn't suggests "i have more abilities, I win". She's suggesting that "overloaded kits" are actually better for the game because they also require strategical timing along mechanics (engaging yasuo when windwall is down and when he has use off his escape routes with E for example).

woodvsmurphJan 3, 20171 votes

Ummm "overloaded kits" = "more abilities". Don't believe me? Look at it this way... in top you have a malphite (older champ) vs a fiora (newer champ). Fiora can make plays and counter many of malphite's attempts to retaliate -- she has more potential because every ability can be useful in the 1v1 as well as teamfights. Malphite either needs major jungle pressure or to be smurfing or have tons more experience and the fiora be new to the champ in order for malphite to win. And even then, malphite only wins for so long. Eventually, it doesn't matter he's 1 item ahead, has 300+ armor and fiora half a defensive item; she beats him due to her kit. Same type of thing with darius vs malph. Sure if you can teamfight, you might get your "revenge" as the malphite who was bullied 1v1 most of game by having a huge teamfight impact, but in laning, you are still basically at the mercy of your opponent -- one who doesn't fall off. Why play lux, when you can play syndra (and delete someone much more easily -- don't have to be ahead in terms of damage to 1 shot) or vel'koz (spam abilities, do tons of sustained magic damage from long range; as opposed to cass or ryze's mid range) and do much the same thing -- only do it better? Why play cho when your damage trades are equal but you go oom because your mana costs are insanely high while the enemy can keep spamming them -- not to mention your q is so slow people can walk out of it even when silenced. You basically never see cho top anymore because everyone either tanks his abilities -- trading evenly in terms of damage via their abilities and runs him oom so they start winning trades, or they use mobility to dodge his abilities while still landing their own. How is basically making an older former staple pick unplayable a good thing?

Titanium70Jan 3, 20172 votes

But... that's exactly what an 'overloaded' Kit does, that's why it its OVER loaded. And if two equally overloaded Kits of equally skilled Players hit each other... hey we're back to raw Numbers.

It's always about raw numbers. It's alway about reaction time. That's the 'Black and White' thing.

The only question is how much emphasis Riot wants to put on those counter-parts. The more stuff you plug into a kit - the less readable/understandable (for both) it becomes resulting in more reaction based fights. The less stuff you plug into Kit the more said Kit becomes predictable resulting in most fights can be fougth in mind between both players by mere presence and occurance in lane.

I dont want League to become another Chess/Go ... (although I enjoy them - world has enough of those) I definitely dont want League to become another *insert random fighting game/shooter - world has enough of those.

I want League to remain that game of Quickplay it is. (was? watching A zed/yas mirror... I dont really believe in stragtegic decissions)

GULAG 4 UJan 4, 20171 votes

'overloaded' as in having more abilities actually means nothing. Sounds ridiculous? It does. Here's why:

It doesn't matter how much shit your kit has as long as it does one thing. Like master Yi. He has 2 less functions than Yasuo if you dissect it up. Does anybody call master yi overloaded? No, not really. Why? Because master yi only does 1 thing. Autoattacking and killing shit. That's why he's a crap champion outside bronze-silver. True overloaded champions should be able to do too many things, such as aatrox.

In overloaded kits, it becomes a duel of who plays better on openings and weakness (assuming there are any). For example, a zed playing around yasuo's windwall and yasuo around zed's w.

I don't think riot should make overloaded champions. I don't really have an answer for this question neither.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20178 votes

One extreme being bad does not justify the other. For sure, the game would not benefit from more Garens or Annies, but when you go full Yasuo/Azir/Kalista, you create large design problems that potentially warp the game even more. Even now, the boards are complaining about Camille because her own tremendous agency comes at a cost to everyone else's, a recurring issue with overloaded champions.

While I'm not defending overly simplistic champions, one saving grace is that if they happen to be overpowered, they don't take over the game completely, because they still tend to be countered fairly well by other champions. When an overloaded champion is OP, they tend to have way too much presence, because their excessive number of strengths and lack of overt weaknesses makes them dominant against practically every comp. Even when Skarner and Garen were at monstrously high win rates post-Juggernaut Update, they didn't make the game totally revolve around them, because players could at least counterpick them. When champions like Kalista, Elise or Jayce are even slightly ahead of the curve, they kick out a vast number of champions from their respective positions, and require urgent balance changes to prevent them from stagnating the entire game.

The other issue is that the OP frames the issue as if switching to heavily loaded designs saved the game from stat-checking nightmares. That is not entirely the case. Some of the most stable champions in the game are also among the oldest: champions like Morgana, Lux, Singed and Twisted Fate are among the first champions released, and have relatively simple kits, yet are consistently fairly healthy and popular to this day. Even new releases like Bard, Braum and Vel'Koz, all of whom have fairly straightforward ability sets with clear weaknesses, tend to be significantly less problematic than, say, Ekko, Kalista, Azir or Yasuo.

It's true that the game's original kits were too simplistic overall, and that it was a good move to add some more complexity, but that still does not justify going all the way into the deep end and creating champions that do too much. What we need is a happy medium, where champions have interesting options and real depth of choice, but also clear, intuitive weaknesses that their opponents can exploit. The Sion, Poppy, Taric and Yorick VGUs have all proven that we can have kits that can provide tremendous gameplay for everyone, without having to give those champions every mechanic in the book. We need champions with real depth, which generally requires some more complexity, but at the end of it, Camille is overloaded, and does not feel like she gives her opponent that many options when she's strong.

Sahn UzalJan 3, 20175 votes

Just to prove OP's point here... TahmKench Remember when this guy was strong on release? Tahm Kench isn't as overloaded as champions like Camille. He's a stat-check champion (And a support. An obnoxious one.) remember how much fun we had dealing with him when he was strong?

Meep ManJan 3, 20174 votes

On the contrary, Tahm Kench IS "overloaded" actually. It's just WHAT he does is super annoying. Instant, insane peel on your ADC with a ginormous body slapped on is just annoying. TK is not a stat check champion and he IS "overloaded". However, the OP is correct.

Mira Arya EntheJan 3, 20172 votes

Tahm is far from overloaded in the sense of having tons of moves and abilities. He has too many passives, like Xin Zhao, which is not what people complain about with Yasuo or Riven or Camille or Lee Sin.

Meep ManJan 3, 20175 votes

He has two passives though... and tons of moves and abilities isn't overloaded. It's how much can be done with them and how much they do that's overloaded. Otherwise, the only overloaded champions would be Jayce, Rek'sai, Elise, etc.

Sahn UzalJan 3, 20173 votes

Tahm Kench if a ball of stats if I've ever seen one. Comparing Irelia, who is a ball of stats to Camille would be a much better comparison tho.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20172 votes

This is true, one of Tahm's biggest issues early on was that he had the damage of a juggernaut and the CC of a tank, yet also had a lot of poke on top of good trading power. To this day, those issues still persist, it's just that he's been toned down to more manageable levels, and despite having a fairly straightforward playstyle, he has a lot of different effects on his kit.

Big LincolnJan 3, 20173 votes

He's been gutted to trash tier, don't front.

Tahm has all of those things because he has no consistent AoE damage -- the AoE he does have requires him to give up using W on an ally or enemy to spit a minion.

He does not have the CC of a tank -- he has a single target stun and a single target suppression, both of which require his passive be stacked.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20172 votes

His current balance situation does not change his design, which retains the issues I mentioned.

"Consistent AoE damage" is also not a Warden strength -- Shen does not have this, and neither do Braum or Nunu, yet none of these champions require a vast number of advantages in other domains to function.

Tahm's CC also surpasses that of all other Wardens. Shen has one taunt, for example, Braum has a stun and some CC tied to a long-cooldown ult, and Nunu doesn't even have hard crowd control. By contrast, Tahm has two different sources of hard CC on his basic abilities, and his suppress lasts 3 seconds, which is huge, and longer than any other suppress in the game. Just to note, all other suppresses in the game are on ultimates, and the only other one that comes close to Devour's duration is Malzahar's, at 2.5 seconds. He is significantly above the baseline in that respect. He may be balanced now, but in the end he does a lot, which is in part why he's so annoying to play against when he's strong.

Chembaron YamadaJan 3, 20173 votes

Tahm Kench's CC is really not that great in my opinion. Yes, he has a 3s suppress.... what you didn't mention is, that unlike other suppresses, his doesn't allow you to attack the enemy while he is cc'd. His Devour kinda feels more like a delayed replacement than a suppress.

And it already got mentioned that his stun requires him to get 3 stacks and hit with his Q. Other supports have more reliable CC than TK, at least in my opinion.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

what you didn't mention is, that unlike other suppresses, his doesn't allow you to attack the enemy while he is cc'd. His Devour kinda feels more like a delayed replacement than a suppress.

Literally every other suppress either locks the champion applying it into an animation or prevents them from attacking their target, but I agree that Tahm's suppress is unique in that they cannot be attacked his allies, either. This, however, is also counterbalanced by the fact that Devour itself deals massive damage, and can be used to place his target in situations they cannot escape from, especially since a coordinated team will know to jump on Tahm's victim the moment they pop out. In the end, Devour is a tremendously powerful ability, which is why it was originally conceived as an ultimate.

{quoted}

And it already got mentioned that his stun requires him to get 3 stacks and hit with his Q. Other supports have more reliable CC than TK, at least in my opinion.

Braum's stun also requires stack applications, Shen's taunt requires him to land a very thin dash onto his opponent, and Poppy's stun requires her to slam her target into terrain, to name but a few examples, so he's not the only one who needs to set up his hard CC. For sure, he has less reliable CC compared to many other champions, especially if you count Leona, Nautilus, Rammus, etc., but by Warden standards, he's still well above average.

Chembaron YamadaJan 4, 20171 votes

That's what I actually meant. When Warwick or Malzahar are suppressing an enemy, your team is able to attack the defenseless enemy while Tahm Kench makes the enemy untargetable. That the skill itself deals damage is not really an argument in my opinion, since all these other suppresses deal damage as well. =/

Braum just has to his his Q OR an AA to set up the stacks, after that every ally can stack it up to 4 to trigger the stun. That is not even close as situational as Tahm Kench, who has to be in melee range to hit the enemy 3 times and then hit the Q to get the stun. As long as there is an ally (especially ranged) nearby, Braum's stun is way easier to pull off.

Shen has to land 1 skillshot, while Tahm Kench has to stack up 3 times by AA'ing and then landing a skillshot. Tahm is more situational. And Shen's CC is AoE.

Poppy has to slam her target into terrain, but beside mid lane there are enough walls everywhere to get this stun procced. Granted, it is fairly situational, but more than Tahm Kench? Not sure about that.

And one fact I want to act: One quality of wardens is that they are able to protect their allies. Tahm Kench is really good at protecting exactly 1 ally by using Devour (which denies him using it as a cc). Other wardens like Braum or Shen are actually able to protect an entire team.

Braums shield is protecting his whole team from projectiles. Shens taunt and block is AoE. Poppy negates dashes and has great disengage.

Teridax68Jan 4, 20171 votes

32% (+ 2% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health + 4.5% of Tahm's max health is some of the highest damage you can find for a basic ability, and Tahm's a tank. Even when compared to the damage of the ultimates you are comparing it to, it's still huge. This is also ignoring the fact that Tahm can also naturally regurgitate his victim at a good spot for them to die in the 3 seconds it takes for him to set it up. Even with Tahm's stack requirements, that surpasses by far the crowd control of any other Warden, and his Q makes setting it up far less difficult than it would normally be for a melee champion with no gapclosers.

You bring up Braum and Shen's AoE defenses, but Tahm's E passive allows him to body-block massive amounts of damage and regenerate it thereafter, thereby making him significantly better against poke. His active protection is mostly directed towards one target, but that generally isn't a hindrance in a metagame where, in the end, there's generally one target that takes priority over all others when it comes to protecting them, i.e. the marksman. In the end, the problem with your line of argumentation is that you bring up specific strengths of other champions, when the issue being discussed isn't just the raw power of Tahm's individual abilities, but the sheer number of tools at his disposal. Tahm isn't OP at this point, but he certainly is overloaded.

Big LincolnJan 3, 20172 votes

Tahm is a Juggernaut with support qualities. Shen is a fighter/support and he (used to) do respectable damage to back up his utility.

Tahm doesn't have a global shield or a dash, or a wall that blocks all incoming projectiles, a massive AoE slow that saps attack speed, etc. He can't engage or counter-engage like Braum, he can't protect you nearly as well as Shen, and he can't completely disable a rightclick champion like Nunu can.

Tahm Kench's kit is fine. His numbers were the issue; they were far too high and rewarded him too much for not building a single damage item. Now they are too low.

He may be balanced now

Tahm is a troll pick right now.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qA2u70sm,comment-id=000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-03T19:54:36.434+0000)

Tahm is a Juggernaut with support qualities. Shen is a fighter/support and he (used to) do respectable damage to back up his utility.

Tahm is listed as a warden first and foremost. If you want to list him as a juggernaut, that's fine, but then you need to acknowledge that his CC is way above-average for a member of that subclass (no other juggernaut has more than one instance of hard CC, for example, and most juggernauts have very little overall crowd control). Shen is also a warden with diver qualities, but his dueling power is tempered by a complete lack of range and extremely situational sticking power. Tahm is slow, but even that much is partially countered by his ranged damage, and his own sticking power is much more reliable.

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qA2u70sm,comment-id=000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-03T19:54:36.434+0000)

Tahm doesn't have a global shield or a dash, or a wall that blocks all incoming projectiles, a massive AoE slow that saps attack speed, etc. He can't engage or counter-engage like Braum, he can't protect you nearly as well as Shen, and he can't completely disable a rightclick champion like Nunu can.

If you want to do pure ability comparisons, then I can say that none of those champions can give their ally a 6500 range blink, or 6 seconds of stasis, nor can they regenerate 90% of poke damage, shield themselves for 40% of their max health, or deal large autoattack damage just by building tanky. His protection is significantly more consistent than Shen's, which is why he was picked in Worlds 2015 specifically just to protect the ADC, he can disable any champion much harder than Nunu, and he has many more options than Braum when it comes to entering or leaving fights if an ally is around (he can teleport right in the middle, or pick up a friend to gain bonus movement speed when going in, neither of which Braum can do). In the end, the point isn't that Tahm outperforms all of these champions at once, but that he gets to do a little bit of everything: he's a Warden who can play hyper-aggressively, a juggernaut with two ranged abilities and hard CC, a support with great dueling power. That's the reason why he was overnerfed, he does too much.

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qA2u70sm,comment-id=000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-03T19:54:36.434+0000)

Tahm Kench's kit is fine. His numbers were the issue; they were far too high and rewarded him too much for not building a single damage item. Now they are too low.

The issue with his numbers specifically is that his combat pattern is still very stat-checky: if he builds enough health, he can out-tank and outdamage his opponent, and if he doesn't, he loses on both fronts. Giving him health-to-damage ratios was not a good idea, and is a major cause of his current instability.

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qA2u70sm,comment-id=000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-03T19:54:36.434+0000)

Tahm is a troll pick right now.

That is usually the case for overloaded champions: if they're strong, they're really popular, but the moment they're even slightly underpowered or just balanced, they drop out of visibility altogether, bar some very few exceptions (e.g. Lee Sin).

RebonackJan 3, 20172 votes

Camille is at 85% pick/ban.

That's pretty damn close.

SlytherinUmbreonJan 3, 20172 votes

Tl;dr: Camille being able to fly across the map, lock you in a box, and kill you because higher stats is more fun then at least being able to potentially kite overtuned Morde with higher stats. Ok. Overloaded kits are not immune to being balls of stats or stat checks, if anything being overloaded makes a potentially stat checking champion even worse.

TyrekGoldenspearJan 3, 20171 votes

Another good post. +1.

You're on fire this week!

Mira Arya EntheJan 3, 20171 votes

This post isn't about Camille people :^)

ZephyrDrakeJan 3, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qA2u70sm,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-01-03T18:47:07.516+0000)

This post isn't about Camille people :^)

it's still the same. The game may not be decided by numbers but now it's decided by who has the better reflexes most of the time. Simple designs allow you to make champions have really good strength while giving them a good number of weaknesses that prevent them from going out of control. Overly complex champions pretty much just want to give everything to everyone to the point you just ask "what is the weakness of this champion?" do they instant they are strong they push out everyone else out. They all by themselves wrap the game in such a way that is actually unhealthy to the game itself

Chembaron YamadaJan 3, 20173 votes

"The game may not be decided by numbers, but now it's decided by who has the better reflexes most of the time."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that kinda the essence of outplaying? If you have the better reflexes, you outplay your opponent. If he has, he outplays you.

And I actually think that should be the goal of that game, people are winning by outplaying each other and not because they chose the champ with the highest stats in game.

ZephyrDrakeJan 3, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"The game may not be decided by numbers, but now it's decided by who has the better reflexes most of the time."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that kinda the essence of outplaying? If you have the better reflexes, you outplay your opponent. If he has, he outplays you.

And I actually think that should be the goal of that game, people are winning by outplaying each other and not because they chose the champ with the highest stats in game.

no it's not. I shouldn't be losing just because i got a ping spike or my enemy has a better PC or has better reflexes. You are essentially saying "you don't have a great PC? well screw you!" when you devolve everything to twitch reflexes it doesn't make the game better, it looks nice but it makes the game boring and dull. Since it pretty much eliminates strategy, it eliminates thinking. All that it matters is "are my reflexes/PC/internet better than his? yes? i win!"

Outplaying is but not limited to: you using everything you have available to your advantage. It's you using the correct skill at the correct time. It's you baiting the enemy in a unfavorable situation. It's you dodging the right way. You using the enemy's skill on your favor. Not "i can react faster than him therefore i win every single time"

Chembaron YamadaJan 4, 20171 votes

I don't see where that is not the case any more. Using your reflexes still means using your skills accordingly. The game doesn't work like "I click, if the enemy doesn't click 0,1s after that action, I won".

It is a dance of action and reaction. Every action of your enemy you have to answer with a reaction, making both of you dancing around each other. If the enemy is using a skill, you have to react accordingly. May it be using counterplay, dodging or countering it by using your own skill. All these actually require you to react in a specific time. To solve this dancing around each other, there are 2 ways to solve this:

Your enemy is reacting wrongly to your action, creating an opportunity for you to strike, punish the mistake and defeat him.
Your enemy is reacting too slowly to your actions. That means you are creating advantage because you are always a step ahead of him. Again, you get opportunity to kill him.

You say you shouldn't be losing just because you got a ping spike.... So basically you are saying if you are standing in front of your enemy doing nothing while he is loading his whole combo onto you, that shouldn't make you lose?

Just because you don't have a time window of ages to think for your reaction and play accordingly doesn't mean there is no strategy and thinking any more. The best plan can be ruined by 1 fast unexpected action, it is up to you to change your plan fast enough to turn the tables again.

ZephyrDrakeJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't see where that is not the case any more. Using your reflexes still means using your skills accordingly. The game doesn't work like "I click, if the enemy doesn't click 0,1s after that action, I won".

It is a dance of action and reaction. Every action of your enemy you have to answer with a reaction, making both of you dancing around each other. If the enemy is using a skill, you have to react accordingly. May it be using counterplay, dodging or countering it by using your own skill. All these actually require you to react in a specific time. To solve this dancing around each other, there are 2 ways to solve this:

Your enemy is reacting wrongly to your action, creating an opportunity for you to strike, punish the mistake and defeat him.

Your enemy is reacting too slowly to your actions. That means you are creating advantage because you are always a step ahead of him. Again, you get opportunity to kill him.

You say you shouldn't be losing just because you got a ping spike.... So basically you are saying if you are standing in front of your enemy doing nothing while he is loading his whole combo onto you, that shouldn't make you lose?

Just because you don't have a time window of ages to think for your reaction and play accordingly doesn't mean there is no strategy and thinking any more. The best plan can be ruined by 1 fast unexpected action, it is up to you to change your plan fast enough to turn the tables again.

you have ZERO idea what i am talking about right? there is little to no strategy when every single action you make is decided simply due to how fast you can react to something. Assassins before the update were pretty much "you can't react to my combo in time? well i win every single time and there is nothing you can do about it at all" needless to say most people found that annoying because you were always at a disadvantage and the instant they got a slight lead it essentially meant that they would take over the game. Overloaded champions are the biggest source of imbalance the game has, every time they are good (not even strong) they wrap the entire game around them and push every single other champion that is unable to compete away.

Overloaded champions negate any dance of action and reaction whenever they are strong since the only way for you to beat them is to essentially either pick a champion that is just as broken or hope that whoever is using them is terrible at it. They are frustrating to play against or even have on your own team since having/facing a good Ryze vs a bad Ryze pretty much decides the entire game all by itself. Overloaded champions very rarely have clear weaknesses and when they do their kit more than makes up for said weakness to the point you just ask yourself "why even bother having this as its weakness?"

Also like i said before when the entire game devolves into "who can react faster" it pretty much gives unfair advantages to whoever has the better PC/internet. Champions need to have a balance of simplicity and complexity not just "let's make everything a complex monstrosity" there is a reason people hate overloaded champions, they are a nightmare to balance and people who like the champion then suffer because their champion is never allowed to be good because of it. Simple champions on the other hand even when they are strong they rarely, if ever, wrap the entire game around them. They are allowed to be insanely strong in certain areas because their weaknesses more than make up for that strength.

When i fight against a champion and the first thing that comes into my mind is "there was nothing i could do about it" or "how am i supposed to react to that?" that means the champion's design is flawed. Most of the most balanced champions in the game aren't these complex twitch inducing reaction champions. It's the simple ones who have their moments to shine depending on the situation (like morgana).

Truly PridefulJan 3, 20171 votes

Exactly, this is essentially what I've been saying to people I play with / talk with regularly. This game is far more interesting now than it once was because Riot has become more willing to roll the dice with kits and map changes. Do they have some misses? Sure, every conpany does but for the most part they've done well making the game itself more dynamic.

I've been playing this game since pre-season 1 and everytime someone says "This game was so much better in s1 / s2" I just have to laugh at them. The old Metagolem League was so much better than now? For a week Riot should set up a mode that goes back to the past, doesn't let you play new champions (Let's say s3 onward) or use new items, and puts the map back to how it was. It wouldn't take long for people to realize how much they miss these "overloaded" champions and all of the "terrible" changes Riot makes.

Before anyone says I'm just a blind Riot follower, I have plenty of issues in the game currently but they aren't any worse than they've been before. The difference these days is I have champions to play that are far more dynamic and fun to play.

PS - Camille is busted people, yes, but let's give them a patch to see what they do here.

woodvsmurphJan 3, 20171 votes

So, I have no problem with champs having lots of mobility, outplay potential, exciting new abilities, etc. When I do take issue with these, is when the result is a champ where their kit basically entirely covers up their weaknesses -- preventing any 1v1 exploitation unless you get a counter-pick and when their kit basically completely negates another champion's kit to the point that older champ becomes mostly useless/unplayable unless new champs x,y,p are banned.