No one really complains about Gnar getting 14% max health damage

KoKoboto··3 votes·720 views

That is potentially on a 4s CD but when Sejuani has it people go nuts :O Note: Everything here is theoretical because Sejuani is perma banned and I rarely get to see what happens in actual game play.

"Hey don't compare different champions!" Okay let's see...

First off outside of her icebreaker passive Sejuani has really low damage, her whole kit has lower damage compared to before so although she has 20% max health damage it's like okay... 20% on say a squishy usually is around 350-400 damage, which is usually around around 1/5 of a squishy healthbar so that's quite a bit. However you need the 4 stacks and need to proc icebreaker for it which would take around 3-4s if Sejuani is by herself and than afterwards if you wanted to proc on the same target again you would have to wait ~14s. With an ally you still would need around ~11s to get a normal proc off again. So 1/5 of your health and than Sejuani is kinda outta options here because the rest of her kit is really lacking, if the squishy has any sort of support or is able to fend for themselves Sejuani won't be doing much I reckon.

Gnar on the other hand has range and has his 14% max health damage on about a 4s CD. So off the bat he will have more potential to get off more % max health damage than Sejuani. Sejuani may be able to get it right away on the engage but afterwards Gnar just does more, while being squishier. I think the main point is Gnar is able to get off more max health damage than Sejuani ever could but people don't really complain about it :O

The gray area is whether or not a tank should have that much damage in the first place cause that often leads to unsatisfying gameplay stuff. As mentioned earlier Sejuani will always have a ~11s CD on her 20% max health damage which means she's not doing that much damage overall cause of the rest of her weak kit. In the end, other tanks probably deal the same amount of damage that Sejuani does just over time rather than all at once.

My main point is stop banning Sejuani so I can see how she works please. item 2049 item 2045 item 3070 item 3070

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Sejuani has kinda fallen in discussion on the boards but she is still getting perma banned and I've only seen her a total of maybe 5 times since the patch came out! I can't even have an proper opinion on how good she is.

I'm tired please be gentle.

19 Comments

Tegash2 votes

I think the main reason people are freaking out about sejuani is that she can get that max health damage and build absolutely no armor and mr, WHILE STILL having 300 armor and mr through her passive

granted, it's only for the first three seconds of combat, but that's all a yasuo or vayne or (any other hard carry) needs to get a penta.

KoKoboto1 votes

Rammus usually has around 3-5s downtime on his defensive curl. Wukong just gains up to 40 mr and armor for being around people. Warwick and Galio gain 50% damage reduction just cause

On paper Sejuani should deal about the same damage as these other guys and will also be less tanky cause she has no other defensive steroids. Go to any league stat website, she is actually on the bottom half of the table when it comes to damage dealing.

Also first three seconds of combat and she is a front line tank, unless the enemy team is all melee or super low range she shouldn't be getting the luxury of using her passive to engage. Of course I don't know how often her passive is up because she is always perma banned and I haven't tried any strategies playing against her. @-@

UnboundHades2 votes

don't bring my main into your rantsGnar

KoKoboto1 votes

Do you think Gnar has been doing well recently?

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

Yes

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

Her pick+ban rate isn't really "pick/ban" status. I'm able to play her pretty often and even when I don't pick her no one else usually does. She is pretty strong, but her damage is the last thing to really complain about. A tank having % health isn't new, and is generally fine as long as it isn't true damage. Something to consider is tanks don't usually build any penetration, so their damage is easily reduced which is why they have higher % HP damage, and normally it doesn't have ratios either unlike some other champions.

The main thing that makes her a little on the strong side when played well would be the passive earlier on, which is what they'll be nerfing anyways. She's not really always picked often because she actually loses quite heavily either top or jungle with inexperienced players. Something else I don't think people realize either is how her passive interacts with Iceborn Gauntlet which is generally bought early in lane and second in the jungle, it's a pretty a large circle.

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah this is what I'm thinking, she isn't that over the top. I feel inexperience is really putting her win rate up.

Funkin Dunkin2 votes

Sej's old W used to do HP% damage on top of her basic and additional DOT. No one went nuts about that then. What's the difference now? And Gnar's W passive only happens when he's mini, making him significantly squishier. If you have a problem with Gnar why not complain about Ekko or Vayne or Zac ?

KoKoboto1 votes

Exactly. Although Sejuani discussion has really died down, at first people were going nuts about how OP she would be. I don't really understand what is giving her such a high winrate cause I rarely get to play with or against Sejuani... but yeah she really doesn't seem busted.

I guess one idea to her high win rate is that people don't know how to play against her yet. They let her have her passive up for an engage and don't try to take it down before the fight.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

Sejuani is actually a hell of a lot easier to gank with now. Even though her overall damage output is lower, she now has 3 hard cc tools to use against 1 single opponent. Not many junglers can claim that. So despite her Q and R only freezing/lifting 1 person, if you look at it in a solo gank perspective, she can really shit on a solo laner. Her strength now comes from getting people ahead instead of being a hyper tank that does damage.

Big Lincoln1 votes

gnar is bad and sejuani isn't

KoKoboto1 votes

Gnarly<3

Ralanr1 votes

The problem with Sejuani is that it starts at 15%, and ends at 25% (I think) which is higher than other %max health damage scalings and if she has enough melee teammates can apply it to multiple people in quick succession.

KoKoboto1 votes

Hah hah see this is the problem, I'm not sure how often you went against Sejuani, I'm gonna take a guess and say not so often. Her % health damage was nerfed in either the hotfix or on PBE to 10%-20%.

Let's look at her early damage on a squishy. Sejuani stays in 10% max health damage until level 7, most squishies around that level will have around 850-900 health. That's only a measly 85-90 damage for a gank. Looking at other tanks: Rammus power ball - 100 magic damage Amumu bandage toss - 85 magic damage Nautilus Anchor Toss - 65 Mao'Kai Twisted Advance - 50 Poppy Heroic Charge - 50 <> 100 Cho'Gath Rupture - 80 Galio Justice Punch - 100 Sion Decimating Smash - 20<>60, 60<>180 (idk if you max this first) Zac Elastic Slingshot - 80, 180

So in terms of damage she isn't that much different compared to other tanks. Also her stun will be around 1s - 1.4s early cause she maxes W first, she gets a total of around 1.3s - 1. 7s lockdown with her Q. Melee supports aren't that high in play right in bot lane. Maybe she has a lot of success ganking top lane. The enemy can see when their laner is able to apply frost stacks by looking at the vfx on their weapon so they will know Sejuani is in range.

Now after if she is able to get the 20% max health damage what else? She doesn't do anything else unless, as a front line tank, you are running around getting stuns. Also I have been in a situation where I had 3 potential stuns and due to the cast time on E it's really awkward. Stun, W, stun move to other guy, auto, it's just really clunky. You can try it in practice tool just put some dummies near each other. You can get the stun in quick succession but it means you are having to invest time focusing different champions for the % health damage, I'm not sure you have that kinda luxury as a tank that needs to be often focusing one person down, at least in Sejuani's case.

Also I mentioned this before but Sejuani is on the bottom half in terms of damage dealt compared to all other junglers.

kasfas2 votes

Jungle sion maxes q. Top/support sion maxes e first almost exclusively, which does 210 base damage at rank 5 not including the 30% bonus from minions.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

It is 10/15/20%.

I believe it was nerfed back on the PBE when they added a slow to her W2.

Ralanr1 votes

My mistake then.

Anags1 votes

If you really want to know then you will have to suffer through blind pick.

KoKoboto1 votes

You can put me up against all the Yasuos, All the Lee Sins, all the Graves and I'll stand through it (Although I'll be a real bitch about).

But blind pick... Blind pick? I'm never going back. NEVERRRRRRR

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