when a carry levels their utility ability before a damage ability....

Very Hard Engage··1 votes·545 views

you know something is fundamentally flawed.

Veigar Veigar Veigar

its been this way for as long as forever... people find extra ranks into event horizon more useful than damage from dark meteor. despite being a carry, no other mage does this. look at viktor/lux/azir/anivia..... etc etc

its because his E has such crazy value you would be hurting yourself not to take it. now why would a damage dealing mid laner want extra survivability or stun potential when he in of himself doesn't need the duration or the cd, he will make or break a fight for himself after just one application. wouldn't it seem more justifiable to make the ability more reliable as opposed to potent?

hear me out on this one. veigar has always been the premier one shot wonder, but why does he have to be this way? "because of his infinite scaling, it would be op if he wasn't vulnerable" true true. and yes, i agree, thats where his power should be, but at some point you have to recognize that when he gets behind hes just donzo, and no amount of farming will ever bring him back, he becomes completely team reliant to function.

he should be able to 1v1 to some degree instead of falling over to anyone with a banshees veil. and a shorter, smaller, and less potent E would do that.

let me tell you the fix, lower scaling on meteor (crazy i know) possibly cd/size/base change to make him capable of wave clearing) coupled with a shorter static stun duration, like 1.75s at all ranks. (crazy i know) (but with a shorter CD and possibly radius)

this would change how veigar is played from tower hug and farmer. it would make him less team reliant while making him capable by himself in return. since he has lower base mana costs from the mid year mage update he could reliably look to stun and combo at early ranks without blowing his whole stack and leaving himself open. while simultaneously dealing less damage early but having more uptime to perform and take part in fights.

regardless of which changes are made, by changing both W and E simultaneously a lot can be done to make him a more balanced champion.

18 Comments

OurLestrade3 votes

I remember the first time I played Zed, I maxed W because of the passive AD :P

Ralanr2 votes

Same! I thought, "Hey, free AD!"

Why the hell does he get AD from that?

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

It would be kind of not satisfying to only get small CD down from leveling it up.

Dominick Destine2 votes

{quoted}

It would be kind of not satisfying to only get small CD down from leveling it up.

Evelynn

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

I believe the reason was so that all of his damage wouldn't have to be packed into his QE. If they loaded all his damage into Q and E, then he'd spike far harder in early- and mid-game and fall off harder in the late-game.

By having his W provide bonus AD, they smoothed out his power curve.

I'm not going to comment on how well it worked out, but that was the intention.

Sightless661 votes

I'm not going to comment on how well it worked out,

Well, he's doesn't have as much of a "get fed early or suck dick all game" tilt as Akali, so I'd say it's been a pretty resounding success. For all the problems Zed's design has, that W passive is one of the things I think Riot got absolutely right.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Rule of Cautious Editing

Whether I said it worked well or poorly, some people would be jumping down my throat to tell me I was wrong.

Sometimes, I find it better to just not comment on it.

A Basic Island1 votes

that's best right? RIGHT?!?!?

Free ad how can that be beat? Lets just ignore that overall Q brings more damage, but that extra ad :)

Trash MammaI2 votes

It's because his W does a fuck ton of damage even at level 1. So it's better to get Q or W max'd first as they do more noticeably than E

Very Hard Engage1 votes

thats because of the 100% ap scaling ratio attached to it. but you have to admit its near impossible to land, and at this point its a glorified bush checker. but with a shorter cd it could be used to clear waves instead.

by changing both W and E you have the potential to change how he plays altogether.

Revali2 votes

Isn't that the point of mages, to still have some value other than damage in their kits?

Brand has a stun which he can use to effectively stun say a diving vi, for example. if he's behind, he can ult the rest of the team but help peel of vi from her target.

Yaato2 votes

You max stun second because of the ridiculous utility it brings. Lower CD stun means more zoning or catching people out in the jungle. it gives Veigar more presence in mid game due to a lower CD, making him a strong threat to anyone. The added stun duration is a nice bonus so they can't retaliate or use flash, so a great catch while grouped or picking people off will make a huge difference in game. Like others said, the 100% ap ratio is already good enough for Dark Matter to do damage without pumping early points into it.

He's a one shot wonder because that's the theme of this champion and it fits him. He's meant to be pretty useless early game, but going unchecked he can be an annoying shit that one shots everyone. Veigar is by no means a hard champion, but the way you have to play him can be difficult. He doesn't have as many hard match ups as before, but many champions still out do him early and even late game. I am a firm believer that his strongest point will always be mid game since most lanes won't even have the proper resist to deal with him making him able to snowball himself even further if he's fed, or he can start getting his team mates fed with his stun.

I honestly think he's in a good spot though, especially with his stun not being a instant stun anymore. I will miss those days.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

theres nothing wrong with that

not all carries are ability based and some are about the utility specifically

Very Hard Engage1 votes

literally just veigar.

it would be the equivalent of vayne or lucian maxing condem/dash

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

there used to be a build for vayne that maxed condemn first to deal with her counters specifically

A Basic Island2 votes

lol wat??

you serious?

Many champs do this lmfao

Very Hard Engage1 votes

name them

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