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The Failure of Azir

ModCaptainMårvelous··21 votes·1,840 views

http://i.imgur.com/l1AXQIV.png

Before I preface this: I think Azir, as a champion, is a really cool and really unique champion. I can't really think of a character like him in League or in any other game of similar style. Azir as he is brings something interesting and neat to the genre. All this said, I think Azir is an experiment that was doomed to fail from the beginning. I want to discuss this step-by-step before I get my head bit off however.

#Where Azir Succeeded

  • Minion Mancer: While he doesn't have micro ala a DoTA2 character, Riot found a clever way to make a summoner/minion-based character who works through Azir in their shoddy engine. (Even if they're little more than some extra auto-attacks.)
  • Difficulty Curve: Riot really wanted to make a champion who had a skill floor and skill ceiling way higher than others. The difference between a skilled Azir (Faker) and a Scrub bastard (Me) is clear, concise and obvious.
  • Thematics: Everything about Azir is cocky, arrogant and selfish. Yet his story is more tragic than cruel and he still has moments of humanity and purity, such as saving Sivir. He also looks pretty damn cool.

All these things said...

#Where Azir Failed

  • Weakness: Riot seemed to want to give Azir weaknesses but, much like Yasuo, he has the tools to compensate for them. Dive Azir? He has self-peel. Outpoke/sustain him? Well he has one of the best ranges in the game with his soldiers. Corner him? He's got an escape tool. Riot gave Azir all the tools to be a god but locked it all behind a skill wall. Once you climb that wall, you're in paradise.
  • Unclear Role: Is Azir a nuker? A siege engine? Anti-siege? A playmaker? Anti-initiation? It feels like he can do all of this yet unlike a Jack-of-all-trades he does one or two of these better than most of the cast. Azir has no clear role of what he is save for being Azir. Good for uniqueness but awful for game health.
  • Bugs Galore: I don't really need to add anything to this.
  • His strength CANNOT be nerfed: Riot's been slapping this sun chicken with the nerf bat for a solid...two years? Year and a half now? Yet each time Azir continues to be strong. Likely due to his uniqueness, Azir occupies a position where only a flat gutting would truly make him bad. Of course, Riot doesn't want to do this. Some may argue "BECUASE OF DUH LCS RITE!?" but I feel like they learned from Season 1/2 and don't destroy champs like that anymore.
  • Azir isn't good enough in norms to get community outcry: Yes, we all joke about Gameplay's anti-assassin boner but the fact is that Azir's win-rate in norms is terrible. Constantly sitting in the 40-50% range, he only really shines in competitive. The side-effect is that there isn't much community outcry unless it's a higher-tier player...and even then, Azir fluctuates so much that a truly godlike Azir is hard to come by.
  • Azir is a solo carry champion in a team-based world: As many argue, Riot's been nerfing and tweaking the game so that it's more about the 5v5 than it is about individual champions. Yet Azir, at the highest levels, can easily carry games. He has all the tools and more to make enemies quiver and cry in terror. It's somewhat baffling to me.

For all these reasons, Azir seems like a champion that is doomed. He can't be justly nerfed without ruining the character and he can't be changed without removing a unique champion from the game. Eventually all the small nerfs will pile on until Azir is just a shell of himself and pros don't bother picking him yet these are all nerfs that need to happen. For lack of a better term, Azir is a paradox: If he stays good, he's a dominating and unjust force. If he gets crippled, you lose an interesting character.

Riot kind of designed themselves into a corner with this guy. Here's hoping they make it work one day.

50 Comments

Critmaster Garen8 votes

the first failure was that they designed him for zoning without counterplay.

they should have focused his kit around destructable minions like zyra, heimer, illaoi and other champions from the start. to clarify, this means that also his other abilities would be made with destructable minions in mind and not depend on them being indestructable too much.

the model for gangplanks barrels, where the hitpoints are counting down and remaining at 1 hp could actually have worked for azir soldiers. put additionally a limit on how many soldiers he can have active at the same time and you have barely changed anything about his mechanics and added counterplay to his kit.

but instead they gave him a "youre not allowed to go near this" ablity.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

The idea (or what I assume was the idea) was that Azir was far more reliant on his minions and lacked tools to deal with enemies who actually closed the distance.

But then E and R exist and you're just like "what"

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

The idea (or what I assume was the idea) was that Azir was far more reliant on his minions and lacked tools to deal with enemies who actually closed the distance.

But then E and R exist and you're just like "what"

just imagine for a second, his soldiers worked like gp barrels and had 3 hitpoints counting down until they remain without time limit at 1 point. (but 2 or 3 soldiers maximum at the same time).

this would still give him enough time to pull of flashy combos with his q and e, as it would be really hard to destroy them when he summons a soldier for a dash. but it would prevent him from just owning the place forever.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

It's possible but then they'd also have to last longer. I'm not great at the game so I can't tell you what is the right path.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

It's possible but then they'd also have to last longer. I'm not great at the game so I can't tell you what is the right path.

id make them last 1 on minute or so. but he can only have 2 or 3 soldiers active at the same time. so he cant just prepare a dozen soldiers and 1 shot someone with a q.

an ammo system like Heimerdinger turrets might also be appropriate. but hes working off something like that anyways right now.

Arakadia1 votes

That'd be cool. Make his soldiers last for like a minute, with maybe a 35 second charge time, but give them health. It might change his play style a bit too much though.

583surgeons4 votes

{quoted}

That'd be cool. Make his soldiers last for like a minute, with maybe a 35 second charge time, but give them health. It might change his play style a bit too much though.

Lol? That's like if gangplank could only use barrels and each one was on a 35 second cooldown. He'd be literally useless. Azir sends out a soldier with Q or has to E away and now he can't summon another for half a minute?

Arakadia1 votes

The comment I was replying to also mentioned that the soldiers last for like a minute. I don't know if you saw that.

583surgeons1 votes

That doesn't matter because if they have HP. That means basically the second Azir sends out a soldier to do damage someone just presses attack move and insta destroys it the second it touches them. It's like if Heimerdinger had to launch his turrets at enemies before they did any damage. That's just horrible game design.

Arakadia1 votes

The soldiers wouldn't get one spotted. They'd have more health than that.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

The idea (or what I assume was the idea) was that Azir was far more reliant on his minions and lacked tools to deal with enemies who actually closed the distance.

But then E and R exist and you're just like "what"

Meanwhile, anyone who gets within restraining order radius of Aurelion Sol can curb stomp him into oblivion.

Captain Aishi2 votes

I've been playing sol a bit recently, he's hilariously strong but still, Riot designed him as 'a champion that puts emphasis on good positioning' by making him a slave to his own positioning while being at everyone else's mercy when not in that exact 600 range of him... fits his lore pretty well that he would be a slave to his own kit like that at least :S

Boulderox1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pzIzayUi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-26T02:15:48.641+0000)

the first failure was that they designed him for zoning without counterplay.

they should have focused his kit around destructable minions like zyra, heimer, illaoi and other champions from the start. to clarify, this means that also his other abilities would be made with destructable minions in mind and not depend on them being indestructable too much.

the model for gangplanks barrels, where the hitpoints are counting down and remaining at 1 hp could actually have worked for azir soldiers. put additionally a limit on how many soldiers he can have active at the same time and you have barely changed anything about his mechanics and added counterplay to his kit.

but instead they gave him a "youre not allowed to go near this" ablity.

meanwhile all of the other minion based champs skills aren't strictly defined by the minion, illaoi has w and q for damage, zyra q and e do damage, and heimer has abilties that work, hell, even yorick q does damage ... but azir can't do anything without a soldier, meaning if it had an hp bar he would be useless... personally i think they should have kept the cdr=AS and moved it like they did to w, as now he has a lot of AS that is quite abusive and can be seen as one of his problems... but if he could only get 40% cdr's worth of AS passively, it would be different.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

meanwhile all of the other minion based champs skills aren't strictly defined by the minion, illaoi has w and q for damage, zyra q and e do damage, and heimer has abilties that work, hell, even yorick q does damage ... but azir can't do anything without a soldier, meaning if it had an hp bar he would be useless...

not exactly. azirs q and e dont depend on the soldier being alive for very long. he usually will summon a soldier just to poke with his q, or for a dash anyways.

its all a matter how quickly they can be destroyed. the problem is really just when he puts soldiers into places to deny you being able to cs, or completley zones you off from your team.

it makes him just a ridiculous lane bully and zone control champion on top of his massive outplay potential in teamfights.

Boulderox1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pzIzayUi,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-06-26T02:34:57.178+0000)

not exactly. azirs q and e dont depend on the soldier being alive for very long. he usually will summon a soldier just to poke with his q, or for a dash anyways.

its all a matter how quickly they can be destroyed. the problem is really just when he puts soldiers into places to deny you being able to cs, or completley zones you off from your team.

it makes him just a ridiculous lane bully and zone control champion on top of his massive outplay potential in teamfights.

If that is the case, azir still loses out on his damage, which is balanced around the soldiers aa damage. But if that was the case, then why not have zeds shadow be destructible as well?

Miraweave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pzIzayUi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-26T02:15:48.641+0000)

the first failure was that they designed him for zoning without counterplay.

they should have focused his kit around destructable minions like zyra, heimer, illaoi and other champions from the start. to clarify, this means that also his other abilities would be made with destructable minions in mind and not depend on them being indestructable too much.

the model for gangplanks barrels, where the hitpoints are counting down and remaining at 1 hp could actually have worked for azir soldiers. put additionally a limit on how many soldiers he can have active at the same time and you have barely changed anything about his mechanics and added counterplay to his kit.

but instead they gave him a "youre not allowed to go near this" ablity.

The problem with making his soldiers destructible is that it would completely ruin his DPS lategame when they can just get killed quickly.

What he needs is lower range earlygame. Like, make his Q range scale up with rank.

LordKentravyon4 votes

I disagree Azir has a clear role And a clear are / time he is supposed to be weak

We all know what azir should be But riot refuses to adress it.

Azir was designed to be a late game ap dps hupercarry plain and simple his INTENDED role is clear

Following stabdard hypercary tendencies he's SUPPOSED to be weak and punishable early game

And here lies the problem The high damage with low cooldown (the later mandatory for him to work) on his Q coupled with the safty of his E + R Not only keep him safe in the early stages of the game but allow him to do something unintended, be a lane bully. This was alsp made mich worse with thunderlords he might have been better balance wise if they kept fervor of battle working on him

And here is the problem, riot REFUSES to address this, instead they remove everything else that isnt a direct strength.

First the E knock up Than because the issue still wasnt addressed The W on towers (which would not be a problem if it wasnt so easy for him to push others out of lane ) And the ult duration + speed boost

What needs to be done (more or a mix of the following not all of it)

  • ult duration partially restored

  • w on towers restored

  • if possible E restored (this is a fun part the ability feels aweful in amd of itself, only cool when combo'd with q)

  • q substantial early damage nerf, moderate late damage nerf, substantial early cd nerf, slight late game cd buff

  • w slight early game damage + cd nerf

  • e slight early cd nerf early / mid

  • r damage nerf

Make him less threatening and opreasive early game Make him more punishable early game more windows of retalaition / opportunity

  • leas burst troughout the game
  • more Emphais on relocating soldiers for dps late game

Sorry for any missed typos i suck at typing on mobile

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

You're half-right and half-wrong imo.

You're right on the money about Azir being a hyper carry. Where you're wrong is in having a clearly defined role.

Let's compare other hyper carries: Vayne and Yasuo. Both have similar power curves to what Azir hopes to accomplish. Vayne's goal is to be the ultimate duelist. Very few characters can 1v1 a late game Vayne. Even bad fights can be won through careful positioning. Yasuo's goal is to be the ultimate sustained DPS. He'll crit all the time, making his sustained flat-out higher than others.

Yet in both these cases, these characters still have weaknesses or areas they lack in. Vayne can't siege like a late-game Caitlyn can. Yasuo, for the mobility boards like to boasts about him having, doesn't really have escape options unless the enemy screws up. They have their roles and are carries, yes, but they still have defined things they're best at and areas they don't excel at.

Compare this to Azir. Late game, he has great poke. Great maneuverability. Great initiation/counter-initiation. Strong burst -and- sustained DPS. To be frank the only thing Azir is missing is a heal. He has an incredible amount of tools available to him comparative to other hyper-carries that he can do a multitude of rules, all very well.

You can nerf his poke but he'll still have sustain burst initiation escape tools. You can nerf the sustain but he'll still have other things, etc. But then you get the problem of other things. If you remove the dash-escape and wall then Azir isn't really "Azir" anymore now is he? He's a character being pulled in four different directions but that's sort of his identity.

Woook3r1 votes

not sure why you think the dash is such a core part of his identity.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Part of his playmaking and one of the most iconic things Azir is known for to the point where it has a name. (Shurima Shuffle)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnUyrVMku6c

Woook3r1 votes

well yea i guess if you want to put the character's identity around the part of his kit that is overloaded then yea hes broken.

I however think of him as the dude thats got other guys doing his bidding and he is setting up turrets all over the map like a usurper.

Btw. IMO. Characters with dmg and playmaking ability are generally broken. If you throw range and mobility into that its a guaranteed broken character. Not sure why rito doesnt know that yet. theyve been building the game over years and they cant tell? One more thing. If you want to identify a champion with the exact set of things that makes them broken then you set yourself up for this sadness thread all on your own.. you should know better too.

Divewing1 votes

That's actually not really fair to call. ONCE his early damage was toned down, Azir would then be in a position where his late game strengths WOULD BE JUSTIFIED, because he is now WEAK EARLY GAME.

Azir is supposed to be THE late game hyper carry mage. If his early game was worse to balance it out. Beating Azir should be about beating time, because that is essentially Azirs method of fighting. Azir is Leagues ultimate expression of patience, "I'm in no rush, you will die by my hand sooner or later.", which is similar to how his empire was forgotten; beneath endless sand that has no concern for time.

Azir would be balanced without his burst dmg. Honestly Q shouldn't be used with damage in mind, it should primarily be for repostitioning soldiers.

Edit: In fact removing his burst DOES make him less valuable in an area, in that he couldn't deal with primary targets as quickly as other mages.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

You're kinda missing the point I made. Yes, we can remove the burst, but Azir still has an immense amount of tools at his disposal. So you have to remove something else on top of it. Maybe his mobility or whatever. Maybe tweak his damage so it's pitiful early. Blah blah blah it goes on. There comes a point where you realize he's not really Azir anymore. It's all justified, yes, but there's so much in his kit and so much "iconic" stuff that it's almost impossible tweak him without fundamentally hurting who he is as a champion.

Divewing1 votes

Yes he does. You seem to be ignoring that removing his burst via lowering q damage results in nerfed poke, nerfed early game strength, increased early game weakness, and increased risk early game, and in most cases total inability to 1 shot anyone.

I think that's a fair trade.

I honestly hate to be that guy, but how much Azir have you actually played?

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

A few games. I've honestly watched more than played him. (Although I think you can forgive me on that considering I can turn on Twitch and see at least two-to-three pro azir games)

Burst would be a good start, yeah, but I don't think it'll solve everything. Early game, he'd still have good zoning tools. Not bursting, sure, but strong enough. He can still do it safely and with a fall back. (Even with Q nerfed, his range is still VERY good). Thus you'd have to tweak more things. Shorten his range, lower his burst in other categories, etc etc etc. It's a dangerous game.

Divewing1 votes

His burst is mainly because of thunderlords and Q. TLords is just busted at a fundamental level so not much we can do about that asides from removing/reworking it. His Q dmg can plummet, it doesn't affect his late game dps fantasy, and makes him incredibly vulnerable to bullying from anything with a dash in the mid lane. LeBlanc is already a solid counter, removing Azirs ability to trade evenly will totally ruin him barring a colossal difference in skill/experience.

Erockandroll3 votes

I Think Azir suffers the same kinda problem Kayle has with being a DPS mage that scales with AS.

DPS mages need a step up, compared to the DPS of an ADC. This partially happens because mages are more level reliant and usually solo lane. But also because they do much less to towers and objectives, if they can't melt enemies, they have nothing. And the Problem with the AS scaling means that they are much less mana reliant. I don't think I've seen a late game Azir ever go oom.

Thus giving Azir lots of zoning power, lots of wave clear, and lots of DPS, for not a whole lot of mana. I would probably increase his Mana costs, and Cooldown, mainly at the higher levels. That would curbe his power curve.

Woook3r1 votes

Gut everything except the problem, then gut the problem, while not reverting previous nerfs?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

id say his passive turret is actually the greatest success in his kit. not only is the ability unique and incredibly cool to play with, but also fits the conquerror theme thematically.

and its actually pretty well balanced with the degrading health and limited lifetime.

Woook3r1 votes

imo, the only problem with azir is that hes incredibly safe (mobility plus 2 forms of peel), high range, high dmg, high utility. You cant give a champion more than two of those and expect to not have a problem.

Sarixis2 votes

Nice analysis, you hit the important points eloquently.

Part of why Azir can't be nerfed properly is also because he has overloaded kit syndrome, notably like Ekko in particular. As you said they either have to straight gut him or remove aspects of his kit to balance him properly. His intended power with the soldiers also suffers from no real counterplay and basically makes him Heimerdinger or Zyra on crack since you have no way to stop the soldiers outside letting yourself get zoned hard.

I look forward to Riot trying to give him a damage curve similar to marksman because the Burst + DPS power spike with just item 3115 + item 3116 very frustrating to play against (they should not have a 60% AP ratio with 50 - 170 base damage).

Dr Poro2 votes

My idea on how to tackle Azir:

  • reduce Q range. He currently has long range poke, dps and burst damage. I think it's not cool if a mage has all 3 possible aspects of a mage in one. Reducing the range of Q would also nerf his insane escape mobility which is kind of over the top.
  • reduce soldier uptime. They are on the field for an eternity. There is no open gap where he is without soldiers. Windows of opportunity, a term rito likes to use. Where is it?
Seenan1 votes

I always found bad champ design (in terms of gameplay) to be someone that continues to be good, nerf after nerf.

Ahem...Ekko Azir, even Lucian

ModCaptainMårvelous6 votes

I don't think that's a rightly fair assessment.

A bad champion design (IMO) isn't about strength or weakness but adding little-to-nothing to the game other than being an additional pick. Hence why I think most of Season 1/Season 2 character design is far worse than anything in S3 -> S6

DesolationKaizer1 votes

Yeah, Season 1-2 was pretty bad design wise imo. A lot of the releases were very samey, particularly with all the bruisers.

Captain Aishi1 votes

i guess i completely disagree there... the only champ releases I loved since s3 started have been velkoz and aurelion sol (and i think he's horribly designed anyways) and i've been 'ok' with braum, liss, aatrox, jhin and bard

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

Love =/= Good design. Illaoi is the only champion I've played recently that I like but that doesn't mean others are poorly made.

As I said, a good design (IMO) is bringing something new and unique to the game. Compare old fiora to new fiora. Old Fiora was just Master Yi with boobs. New Fiora doesn't really play like any other character in the game and brings an entirely new, fresh style of gameplay to League.

Captain Aishi1 votes

I was talking about how good I thought their design was, poor choice of words from me sorry

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Haha, no problem! Design is a very subjective thing and it shows with the reworks. (I still argue with my friend about old fiora vs. new fiora)

ZombeezyJeezy1 votes

I lost a 5v4 today because the enemy Azir would literally instagib anyone who came near him after 2 items. It felt really bad because we did everything we could to try to not lose, but Azir just could not be dealt with in a reasonable way.

When Azir came out, I loved his design. I sucked with him, but he felt fulfilling to play, which I think Riot nailed. The problem is that his kit in general is so applicable to everything in the game it's as if he could almost do anything except Jungle if the person playing him was skilled enough. This was so prevalent that they've actually had to remove parts of his kit so that he didn't dominate in almost every aspect of the game.

Darfaller1 votes

Possible way to nerf Azir, if a sand soldier q to a location, the duration of the sand soldier decreases by a couple seconds, or maybe 3 seconds. Next they need to lower the dmg from q and sand soldiers at max rank, or generally overall so that he doesnt nuke people but actually requires to hit you a few times to kill you. This way azir gets the gutting he needs without making him completely unplayable and increases the skill slightly higher cause you have to manage sand soldier timer.

Cerebral Absence1 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/l1AXQIV.png

Before I preface this: I think Azir, as a champion, is a really cool and really unique champion. I can't really think of a character like him in League or in any other game of similar style. Azir as he is brings something interesting and neat to the genre. All this said, I think Azir is an experiment that was doomed to fail from the beginning. I want to discuss this step-by-step before I get my head bit off however.

#Where Azir Succeeded

  • Minion Mancer: While he doesn't have micro ala a DoTA2 character, Riot found a clever way to make a summoner/minion-based character who works through Azir in their shoddy engine. (Even if they're little more than some extra auto-attacks.)
  • Difficulty Curve: Riot really wanted to make a champion who had a skill floor and skill ceiling way higher than others. The difference between a skilled Azir (Faker) and a Scrub bastard (Me) is clear, concise and obvious.
  • Thematics: Everything about Azir is cocky, arrogant and selfish. Yet his story is more tragic than cruel and he still has moments of humanity and purity, such as saving Sivir. He also looks pretty damn cool.

All these things said...

#Where Azir Failed

  • Weakness: Riot seemed to want to give Azir weaknesses but, much like Yasuo, he has the tools to compensate for them. Dive Azir? He has self-peel. Outpoke/sustain him? Well he has one of the best ranges in the game with his soldiers. Corner him? He's got an escape tool. Riot gave Azir all the tools to be a god but locked it all behind a skill wall. Once you climb that wall, you're in paradise.
  • Unclear Role: Is Azir a nuker? A siege engine? Anti-siege? A playmaker? Anti-initiation? It feels like he can do all of this yet unlike a Jack-of-all-trades he does one or two of these better than most of the cast. Azir has no clear role of what he is save for being Azir. Good for uniqueness but awful for game health.
  • Bugs Galore: I don't really need to add anything to this.
  • His strength CANNOT be nerfed: Riot's been slapping this sun chicken with the nerf bat for a solid...two years? Year and a half now? Yet each time Azir continues to be strong. Likely due to his uniqueness, Azir occupies a position where only a flat gutting would truly make him bad. Of course, Riot doesn't want to do this. Some may argue "BECUASE OF DUH LCS RITE!?" but I feel like they learned from Season 1/2 and don't destroy champs like that anymore.
  • Azir isn't good enough in norms to get community outcry: Yes, we all joke about Gameplay's anti-assassin boner but the fact is that Azir's win-rate in norms is terrible. Constantly sitting in the 40-50% range, he only really shines in competitive. The side-effect is that there isn't much community outcry unless it's a higher-tier player...and even then, Azir fluctuates so much that a truly godlike Azir is hard to come by.
  • Azir is a solo carry champion in a team-based world: As many argue, Riot's been nerfing and tweaking the game so that it's more about the 5v5 than it is about individual champions. Yet Azir, at the highest levels, can easily carry games. He has all the tools and more to make enemies quiver and cry in terror. It's somewhat baffling to me.

For all these reasons, Azir seems like a champion that is doomed. He can't be justly nerfed without ruining the character and he can't be changed without removing a unique champion from the game. Eventually all the small nerfs will pile on until Azir is just a shell of himself and pros don't bother picking him yet these are all nerfs that need to happen. For lack of a better term, Azir is a paradox: If he stays good, he's a dominating and unjust force. If he gets crippled, you lose an interesting character.

Riot kind of designed themselves into a corner with this guy. Here's hoping they make it work one day.

Well written. I hate the "nerf XY, XY is unhealthy, bla, bla" threads, but yours is pretty good. Maybe because you actually want to go to the roots instead of just crying and cocking around like so many people out there.

Woook3r1 votes

why go thru the trouble of sounding eloquent? azir is overpowered. qq. just cause he used words you liked better he is right? is that how your brain works?

Vistha Kai1 votes

His strength CANNOT be nerfed: Riot's been slapping this sun chicken with the nerf bat for a solid...two years? Year and a half now? Yet each time Azir continues to be strong. Likely due to his uniqueness, Azir occupies a position where only a flat gutting would truly make him bad. Of course, Riot doesn't want to do this. Some may argue "BECUASE OF DUH LCS RITE!?" but I feel like they learned from Season 1/2 and don't destroy champs like that anymore.

Do you really believe what happened to Kassadin after his rework is "learning"? Gut everything except the problem, then gut the problem, while not reverting previous nerfs? Something they've been religiously doing to some champions ever since?

No, sir. His strengths can be nerfed, but won't, because Riot is too thick-headed with once taken idea.

Look, they did some attempts to nerf his QW, but in the end they are nearly exactly the same. Certainly not different enough to make any impact. For reference his Q has +5/lv1 and -15/lv5 base damage, while his W has 1%AP lower DPS.

Instead they are trying to trim his secondary power, but guess what!

Doing that has exactly ZERO impact on the fact, he's both stupidly bursty and possibly the highest DPS mage at the same time, unless they completely remove his ult and/or dash.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

By comparison, however, kassadin still (Occasionally) sees play. Yes, he's not the dominating 97% Ban Rate of Season 3, but Kassadin is still worth picking. Is he balanced? Vaguely, but the point is that Kassadin is still a worthy pick even when Riftwalk is nerfed to riftlimp.

Azir is the same case: Yes, you can nerf everything until the cows come home but Azir's position as...Azir....is unique, solitary and unstoppable. Like I said, the only way to really kill Azir for good is to take away a core part of his kit like the dash of the wall. Yet then you're removing a major part of his kit and he loses out on being Azir.

Woook3r2 votes

im pretty sure azir can still be azir without a stupid f'ing dash.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Nobody wants to remove Azir from Azir. He simply does too much, for example burst is something he shouldn't have.

And removing burst is simple.

Lower Qs numbers to the point his DPS suffers for using it. Bam, he's only an AP DPS with a Lee Sin-like move or two.

Woook3r1 votes

" Gut everything except the problem, then gut the problem, while not reverting previous nerfs? "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Goosetard1 votes

I think one thing that you should keep in mind/include is that he's a midlaner. High DPS characters are typically the go-to targets for assassins, and this should be the same with Azir. But a well-played azir completely dumpsters a lot of assassins (who would have to lane against him) in lane because he can bully them.

Woook3r1 votes

its almost like giving a champion self peel, and mobility, and waveclear, and aoe sustained champion dmg, and poke, and magic dmg dps, and a single target dmg steriod, and very high range, and very low cooldowns wasnt a good idea. Its almost like they should have picked a few of those things and given them to another champion. hmmm.

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