The Karma Rework Doesn't Solve a Problem

Winterkill··6 votes·1,208 views

https://imgur.com/a/OCIZpDd

Here are the proposed changes that Riot NeuroCat and Meddler came up with. For the past six years and since the inception of the VGU, players old and new have been voicing their opinions about Karma. Old Karma players want part of her old kit and identity back, while new players like Karma to be a champion that sits in the backline shielding her allies. The VGU six years ago created a divide among Karma players with her being played mid, top and as support. This rework heavily favors support Karma with nothing more than a numbers buff being thrown for mid. Top Karma is completely gone now. At the same time the number changes and interaction with her rework means Karma JG will be a thing now. No one asked for Karma to become a JG and no one wanted a rework that heavily favors one playstyle.

Instead of creating a rework that solves the original problem of Karma not having a unique and distinguishable gameplay identity, Meddler and NeuroCat continued the trend of doing absolutely nothing for this champion. The sad thing is that they are saying this is going to be a successful approach to this champion because having an interaction that is support role catered to, is more successful than listening to the thousands threads and conversations old and new Karma mains have been making for the past six years. Riot Game Developers are not touching the functionality of Karma's Mantra to make her a better champion. As a battlemage/enchanter, Karma would have gameplay of a support/sustaining AP mage that all players would like.

Karma's kit should be a mixture of having an ability that functions as a mage as well as having the option to use it for utility purposes for herself or allies. Right now Karma's only damage move is still blocked by minions, could have better functionality if it was at least made to be ground targeted, it is number buffed yet again, and the explosion damage on Mantra Q is irrelevant now and actually took a lot of skill away from the ability. What did Riot NeuroCat and Meddler do to this ability to make mage Karma better, other than fat fingering another number buff to it and making her even more unbearable to play against. Karma's new Mantra W mechanic is going to make her do the same thing she's been doing the entire time: sitting in the backline and casting an ability that benefits an ally. Also, the mechanic is quite frankly going to be too overpowered and it is going to take away from other parts of her kit. Reintroducing her clothesline mechanic or even one of the few options that was created for her in the rework sample Riot NeuroCat created would have been a better option than having two abilities that were removed from two other champions. Mage Karma players don't want to sit in the backline pressing Mantra W on an ally when Mantra W is nothing but numbers buffed. Mantra E, again, continues to be the one ability that old and mage Karma players do not like. Riot NeuroCat and Meddler decided this ability would be a better approach than adding the many of suggestions given to them, since the functionality of this ability is just an Iron Locket of Solari active with a speed steroid. The speed steroid is even nerfed harder now.

Proposed idea that benefits all the different playstyles Riot Game Developers created because of their lazy work ethic and horrible communication:

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P: Building Fire: Casting basic abilities will slowly build up Karma's strength. When fully stacked (gets stronger when AP is built) Karma's next Mantra ability is more powerful. (This would benefit Battlemage Karma as well as a harassing Support Karma and give her something to do other than sitting in the backline shielding.)

Q - Same

Mantra Q - Make the ability ground targetable and remove the second tick of damage on explosion and replace it with a flat heal that is stronger when support itemization is built. The explosion on Mantra Q would heal instead of do damage. Why? Riot Game Developers already removed the ability out of function with the rework, who cares what they do with it at this point. Allowing this ability to have stronger functionality and having the option of being used as a support, means it's just adding another layer of skill to both of her playstyles. Karma can throw out a Mantra Q to either heal an ally that is trying to escape from danger or damage an enemy if she wants to do damage. More AP means more damage on the ability but building support itemization that increases healing means stronger heals for Karma support. IT'S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY THAT THESE DEVELOPERS ARE AWARE OF.

W - Same

Mantra W - Remove the healing off of Mantra W and replace it with stronger CC or damage. If Mantra W is going to have such a strong mechanic with allies, why cannot Mantra W have an equal but powerful mechanic when used on enemies? More damage on Mantra W means she will have to choose to be aggressive or supportive. Isn't that offering more choices, skill expression and counterplay to Karma's kit? While were at it, having the ability to give both mana and cooldown reduction on Karma's Mantra W ally mechanic is too powerful. Have the ability to one or the other but now both. Quite frankly I would be more happy with it just having the mana mechanic and power being put elsewhere on her kit.

E - Same

Mantra E - REMOVE MASS AOE SHIELDING. No one asked for it to begin with and no one asked to have the damage mechanic removed in the first place. Having some sort of damage mechanic (it doesn't have to be shield bomb) is giving this champion something to do other than sit in the backline and shield. There are ways to make this champion function just the same and give support Karma players and mage ones what they both want.

The new Mantra E will not have Mass AOE shielding and if it is overloaded with mechanics, remove the speed steroid. Make the shield on Mantra W last longer but give a short window (maybe like a glowing shield that fades into a regular shield) that if a player or Karma is hit with the Mantra E shield glowing, damage is reflected back at the first attacker. When the shield is no longer glowing (give it a short period of time as well and longer when it is leveled up) the player or ally is susceptible to damage that isn't reflected back at the first attacker. This compromise is the best of both worlds while also still keeping Karma the way she is. There is also a bit of counterplay as opposed to Karma's old shield bomb that didn't really have it and it was removed and put on Ivern. More AP means stronger damage reflected back at the attacker but stronger support itemization means stronger shield and speed boost.

R: Put the current passive here.

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It's 2019 and there have been nothing but excuses by Riot Game Developers as to why they cannot get it right with this champion. The majority of us understand that new Karma players have to be taken into consideration since they didn't have the opportunity to play old Karma. At the same time there has been ZERO attempt by Riot NeuroCat, Meddler, Reav3s, and even RicklessAbandon to rectify mistakes on this champion. Three separate playstyles were created for Karma with no regard to two of them for years now. There are ways to make this champion play the same with a cohesive kit that all parties of Karma players will enjoy. Fat fingering another numbers buff on her kit, when all of her current Mantra abilities have gotten 10+ times now and always nerfed, is not listening to the Karma players that are trying to make her a better champion. The rework is not doing a darn thing other than catering to Support Karma and not trying to unify all parties of Karma players and making her better.

Do a better job, Riot Games.

8 Comments

HP Crookshanks4 votes

I thought they gave up on that support Karma rework. It's so sad for mid and top Karma. I hate it when they push mages like Karma Morgana Zyra etc. into support role only. [sg-ahri-1]

IxtaliKing1 votes

It's so sad for mid and top Karma. I hate it when they push mages like etcKarma Morgana Zyra . into support role only.

And then justify it by letting us know that's where they're played most.

It just shows how little regard they have for Karma's core fanbase who've stuck by her through all her iterations. Same for Morgana and especially Zyra.

Jenivie2 votes

I love the points you make. Personally i kinda like what theyre doing for karma as of now, lowering an ally's cd seems pretty cool and i honestly love playing her as support rather than mid ( I cant pull off karma mid no matter how hard i try). But what i want most is maybe an e animation, or a new character model for her. They made her look so cool and different in the cinematic and i hope they can make her look better, like how her cloak behind her attaches to her bracelets on her wrist, and how her mantle is on her shoulders rather than it awkwardly floating behind her. But yea the points u made and the changes youre advocating for would be pretty cool too, i still side with you ;)

Frosted Tips2 votes

Actually it causes more problems.

Q - higher burst and will always do more damage because most of the time people dodge the second part, but if they stayed in it they would be punished, but now the first part just does more damage which is going to make her harass better than she already does and the second part is not scary anymore. Also still the only form of damage.

W - Added 2 parts of a kit that a re super hard to balance since they have to be balanced around every single champions abilities. Also it is not a satisfying effect for Karma which is what people wanted.

E - Still has so much utility. The team shield and team haste is just too much utility making them have to keep the numbers low because it is so powerful without feeling powerful. Low satisfaction. should be a shield bomb solved the insane level of utility issue and solved the only 1 easily blockable form a damage she has.

Winterkill1 votes

Yeah. Many of us have been saying for years that parts of the kit are just overpowered while other parts are horrible and not enough. How Riot Games have been buffing Karma is just making one Mantra more appealing and stronger than another, instead of making every single Mantra do something unique.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yeah trust me I have complained for years about this to Riot and so have many others, but they don't care about us. They first push Karma to be a dedicated support and now they are trying to put the nails in the coffin.

Kazekiba2 votes

Sorry stopped reading when you said no one asked for Karma JG. Her W works on - and heals her while ulted - Jungle camps. Ive played more Jungle Karma than any othrr position and gotten S ranks from it. Her RQ+E+W or Q RE W ganks can be potent and her build paths are excellent.

item 1402 item 3107 item 3174 item 3151 item 3157 and item 3117 example build

jocomotion1 votes

I don’t think you’re giving them enough credit.

I think that the proposed changes still fix some of her problems, mainly the discrepancy in pro play and the lack of usage of Mantra’s based off of what playstyle you’re going for. Having Karma’s passive work on a charge system, giving her base W (Spirit bond now) better damage while keeping base Q (Inner flame) the same, for example is a HUGE buff to AP karma, as well as FINALLY adding an AP ratio to Renewal. I think they need to tone down the RE a bit more, but at the very least they’re careful enough to not outright buff it.

I do think the souls alight thing is gimmicky though, as well as the new RW being hard to balance. I’d still need to play it myself though before I could come up with any conclusion on that. I’d say that if they changed that, and maybe gave Karma a new source of damage this mini rework would be a 10/10.

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