Let's talk Riven balance :)

Arya Riven··25 votes·2,387 views

lvl7boxboxfangirllcsbigplays here. I haven't wanted to do this. Because I know how the boards feel about anything involving Riven. But I decided to put a little more faith in my fellow players. Be warned. If you expect the words gut, delete or remove to be used in this post, you will be disappointed.

Riven needs nerfs. But what kind of nerfs? Usually those talking about Riven nerfs are bronze-plat and just talk about what is "annoying" or "unfair" about her. While I appreciate your struggle, I feel the same facing Janna, Syndra or Fiora. But you won't see me demanding they be removed. Or making drastic, uneducated suggestions for champion destroying reworks.

Spite aside. The biggest problem with Riven is skill gap. Coming from a background of fighting games, rts games and platformers. I consider this a quality. But some people don't. I think the best thing to do with Riven is address the 40% win rate 1-5 games to 60% 125+. I would NEVER do this by dumbing down mechanics however. Turning Riven into Garen's current stat check noob friendly state isn't the answer.

The solution is to bring down the reward for mastering her. My proposal would narrow the win rate skill gap. Without hurting her skill cap at all. I simply propose to lower the reward for doing well on Riven, while also lowering the punishment for doing bad on her. Allowing Riot to better balance her for top tier players without her being worthless in low tiers.

Specifically my suggestion would be:

Nerf Q AD Ratio by 5% per hit. A total 15% loss over all 3 hits.

Nerf passive AD Ratio to 20-40% from 25-50%. A large hit on her fast combos. 5-10% per hit.

Buff base HP regen by 1 per 5 at level 1 and by 4 per 5 at level 18.

Buff the base damage of Riven's Q by 5 at 1 point and 10 per hit at 5 points. Encouraging leveling it first and a damage loss otherwise when Riven picks E first into hard matchups.

These changes would make Riven less famine when behind or played badly. Less feast when ahead or played well. By tuning down her rewards for success and tuning down her punishment for failure.

Thank you for reading, sincerely you friendly neighborhood Rovin Main.

Edit: for other Rovin mains who think these cuts are drastic. Keep in mind Darius, Camille, Yasuo and Jayce are seeing nerfs. While Lethality is being buffed. Meaning Ribbon is about to get a lot stronger by default of meta :)

55 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear8 votes

Your bravery as a outspoken Riven main is admirable.

Oh and the post is nice. +1.

Asayake 5150glow6 votes

Riven already loses out on a shit ton of damage from her Q if she maxes E, since the Q AD scaling goes up with rank.

Q's main use is an auto reset/burst... why should the damage from the auto go down?

These hits on her fast combo would actually severely wound her tank dueling ability. She already has a fairly hard time dueling most auto attack based duelists late game, and these are pretty significant damage nerfs.

Arya Riven6 votes

Riven with need significant nerfs with lethality being buffed and her competition being nerfed :)

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-25T02:03:27.703+0000)

Riven with need significant nerfs with lethality being buffed and her competition being nerfed :)

I don't think you'd build Lethality against a Trundle, for example, and that's something I've seen a lot of 'close 1v1 with ____' of :/

But yeah, guess that makes sense.

Arya Riven3 votes

Riven already beats trundle most of the time. And it is okay for Riven to have counters. :)

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T03:43:52.494+0000)

Riven already beats trundle most of the time. And it is okay for Riven to have counters. :)

Meh, haven't played the lane for a while, but him being able to Q you from outside of your W range is fucking bs. Has made me miss so many W's.

LordGeovanni1 votes

so much time you beat riven she cant even farm you reach level 5 and she reaches level 4 and she comes in combos and kills me. where admitedly i dont run because i should be stronger than her. Should being the key word

Leo10245 votes

R O V E N M A I N

Ark Sorcerer5 votes

I must give props on you being a player that logically tries to deal with a high skill cap champion and try to address it. Props.

PermabannedGaren5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-25T00:48:54.894+0000)

Riven needs nerfs.

... she does?

Why?

Bârd5 votes

she doesn't

ProfDrDeath3 votes

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Riven/Top/

Looking at her stats, she doesn't need any nerfs.

What stands out for Riven, even, is her relatively low best winrate - which, for most champions, especially the high skillcap ones, is both higher than 55% and generally higher compared to the average winrate.

Opistach4 votes

I'd be fine if they added like a second or 2 to her Q cooldown, then nerfed the shield ratio on E. I don't have a huge problem with her damage personally, but her spamming in battle tilts me.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

I'd be fine if they added like a second or 2 to her Q cooldown, then nerfed the shield ratio on E. I don't have a huge problem with her damage personally, but her spamming in battle tilts me.

That Q has a 13 second CD dude, at all ranks.

Although honestly reducing shield doesn't matter toooo much, since it's usually used to kite or engage.

That's cuz I'm bad at kiting tho.

Opistach1 votes

When you take into account that her Q's cooldown starts on the first cast, and that most rivens rush 45% cdr. It gets extremely spammy, especially by experienced Riven players who are very good at comboing and timing her abilities.

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

{quoted}

When you take into account that her Q's cooldown starts on the first cast, and that most rivens rush 45% cdr. It gets extremely spammy, especially by experienced Riven players who are very good at comboing and timing her abilities.

Yes, but then you realize that a single Q alone is nearly fucking worthless.

Opistach1 votes

It most certainly is not, 1 Q gives her stacks on her passive. These Q's allow her to cancel animations and weaves abilities in between each other. 1 Q is just as valuable alone as it is coupled with the others.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

It most certainly is not, 1 Q gives her stacks on her passive. These Q's allow her to cancel animations and weaves abilities in between each other. 1 Q is just as valuable alone as it is coupled with the others.

Yes, 1 Q is just as valuable with the others as it is together, but 1 Q alone is still far, far, inferior to 3 Q's. Which is what I meant.

Early game you're not winning any trades with 1 Q, unless it's the third one and you dissengage immediately.

Late game, 1 Q isn't gonna win you any duels unless it's a matter of oneshotting them.

NGNL Asian3 votes

{quoted}

I'd be fine if they added like a second or 2 to her Q cooldown, then nerfed the shield ratio on E. I don't have a huge problem with her damage personally, but her spamming in battle tilts me.

Nerfing the shield would do a lot to her lmfao

Valeckserai4 votes

Someone with Riven in their name asking for Riven nerfs?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/855/340/23b.jpg

But seriously though, good post. Reasonable numbers and rational thoughts given as reasons for the changes.

Arya Riven2 votes

I mean, even Booxboox has said several times in the past that Riven was too strong when she was in season.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Be warned. If you expect the words gut, delete or remove to be used in this post, you will be disappointed.

But they were used in the post. I'm not disappointed. ;p

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

Eh sure. As riven stands right now she'll be absolutely dicking darius even harder with his nerfs.

Arya Riven1 votes

Plus buffs inc to her items and nerfs to her counters yes.

DunkinNoobs3 votes

Riven isn't even good unless you're a 1 trick and she most certainly doesn't need nerfs. No idea where this post is coming from.

Arya Riven6 votes

Exactly the problem. Too good on one tricks. Too bad for normal players.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

Riven 1 tricks aren't exactly dominating as far as I know. She's still a B tier top laner at best.

Arya Riven6 votes

Adrian 62% win rate. Viper 73%. Boxbox 58%. TheShy 75%.

And in plat she goes from 40% at 1-5 games to 60% at 125+

She isn't too strong. But still strong. Plus her counters are being nerfed amd lethality is being buffed.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T03:56:27.726+0000)

Adrian 62% win rate. Viper 73%. Boxbox 58%. TheShy 75%.

And in plat she goes from 40% at 1-5 games to 60% at 125+

She isn't too strong. But still strong. Plus her counters are being nerfed amd lethality is being buffed.

Where are these stats coming from?

Adrian and Viper don't appear to have win rates nearly that high. Both are 58-59% according to my source.

Where is the win rate by experience coming from?

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-25T00:48:54.894+0000)

Riven needs nerfs

No

[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-25T02:03:27.703+0000)

Riven with need significant nerfs with lethality being buffed and her competition being nerfed :)

Maybe, but lethality is still no live, and we didn't try it

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

The biggest problem with Riven is the same as with most AD toplaners.

Black Cleaver rush.

Arya Riven2 votes

I agree, the CDR itemization is over the top.

Ben Sharpio2 votes

how about we remove her AA canceling, that should balance her out.

Arya Riven4 votes

After 5 years of balancing it into her design this would be gutting. Out of curiosity, do you know what Animation Canceling does and how she utilizes it?

NGNL Asian2 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pum9TjXv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-25T01:02:35.598+0000)

how about we remove her AA canceling, that should balance her out.

That would make her actually a spam Q champ. Plus if you cant qa then just a q a q q a slowly

RexSaur2 votes

This guy is not a riven main.

RIven is in no need of any nerfs atm.

Arya Riven4 votes

When nerfs to Camille, Jayce, Darius and Fiora hit live, plus buffs to Riven items. My champion will become Pick or Ban status. I don't want that.

Slave Knight2 votes

This is actually a good riven balance post by a riven main. wat.

Parallelity1 votes

I honestly don't think we should just assume that she immediately needs nerfs. First off, yas is getting a buff. So is jayce. Also darius getting a nerf wont affect much, since the main way he counters riven is he has a re-engage when riven tries to run from a bad trade. Camille is banned constantly so that wont do much.

Arya Riven3 votes

Jayce is being nerfed. Yas is getting nerf.

Xeruon1 votes

While I don't hold a grudge against Rib-eye steak, I do think that she should get punished for using her E to escape. Maybe something like having her get no shield when (only) dashing directly away from an enemy, but increasing the base shielding value at all ranks, especially at rank 1 and 2. I think this would encourage her to use her shield to engage and outplay opponents, rather than a safety net. This would also remove her ability to poke melee champions under turret without taking any damage due to her shield.

But I don't main Reevon, so yeah.

Arya Riven1 votes

This would gut her in her hard matchups and make her good matchups bad matchups. Except for the absolute best Rivens who would just be a buff for. This would increase how feast/famine Riven is. The reason why I targeted damage scaling is it reduces her feast without hurting her famine much.

Xeruon1 votes

Her E does get a bit ridiculous though, especially since AD top laners love rushing Cleaver so much.

Wouldn't nerfing Cleaver's CDR help, then?

Arya Riven2 votes

Increasing the CD of it is possible late game. But early game it is necessary for effective survival against her counters. Which she already sacrifices several waves to early game.

FalconPawwwwnch1 votes

Riven doesn't need number nerfs, she'll just be a problem again once others have been nerfed

She needs mechanical changes and windows where she's vulnerable

Before this was easy because her CDs were abusable but now she gets 40-45% cdr every game

Her Q CD needs to start after the third Q, not the first, and reduce base CD to compensate

Or they can do what they did with graves' E, make her get a reduced shield when dashing away from an enemy champ

agbudar1 votes

personally i have a problem with her animation canceling i feel thats what needs to be looked at first.

to give an example if i find a way to animation cancel on mordekaiser it would get instafixed by riot

so what really needs to change is the double standards on riots part.

Arya Riven2 votes

Riven has been balanced around having animation cancels for 5 years. I heavily doubt that is changing.

Out of curiosity do you know what animation cancels actually are and how Riven utilizes them? If not I'd be happy to explain. A lot of people just hear faker did it at some point and call it broken without knowing what it does.

agbudar1 votes

cast Q + move + attack + repeat in quick sucession.

thats how it was explained to me.

im no riven main by a long shot but managed to pull it off here and there. because the damage is applied regardless of what the animation does.

Arya Riven1 votes

That is known as fast comboing but isn't what gives Riven a lot of strength. That is more similar to when an ADC goes move>aa>move>aa. Except adding Qs

The animation canceling that makes Riven strong are things like this. Go into a custom, buy Tiamat.

Now in very rapid succession slam E>Tiamat>AA>R>W>AA>Q>R>Q on a bot. All that is happening is the very long cast animations of her W, R and Tiamat are interrupted letting her deal more fluid combos.

Thay is it. There are a few combos that work with this. The most basic are E>Q, E>W, E>R and E>Tiamat.

agbudar1 votes

ah ok thanks for the explanation

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