I keep seeing all these people complaining about Garen.....

Jesuszilla·Aug 24, 2015·9 votes·931 views

But his kit didn't change all that much. The biggest two complaints about him I see are how tanky he is and how easily he closes distances. His Q movespeed duration was nerfed, and his defenses are weaker early game now, since you don't really cap his W until mid game. So.... did people just forget how to play around Garen? Or are they so used to him dealing no damage late game, that since he's now a legitimate pick people refuse to move away from him or try to counter him?

21 Comments

Best Darius KRAug 24, 20155 votes

He was released at the same time when the new items were introduced, also it's hard to itemize if you are the villain

WolfChasesAug 24, 20153 votes

I am not QQing because I like him but to be honest, I saw him in 8 out of 10 last games and he was fed as heck in every single one. His late game is beastlike, and if he manages to get to the late you are screwed completely.

redniwediSAug 24, 20152 votes

His win rate went up, and is currently outside of the acceptable zone of 50-53% Riot wants for champions. This, coupled with people forgetting how to correctly fight a Garen, makes the QQ strong.

FiruAug 24, 20152 votes

Not picking one side or another of this discussion but I believe Riot said win rate does not indicate how Riot views a champion. More specifically, they never stated that they have "acceptable zones" of win rates.

redniwediSAug 24, 20151 votes

I read it from a Rioter first hand (I think it was Meddler, I'll try and find it). It's just a goal to aim for and not a rule, but many board posters don't read it that way.

EDIT: I can't find it, so just take it with a huge grain of salt.

StealthWardenAug 24, 20152 votes

not sure...i havent had any trouble with him personally, ive been on teams that dont know how to "walk away" from a champion without a dash....garen...and feed him really hard, but he is still garen and can be outplayed pretty easily. as far as laning, he is still garen and i still don have any problems, lol.

luckmalloryAug 24, 20152 votes

you forgot the part where he can one shot anyone on your team regardless of how tanky they are if they are the villain.

Zorae42Aug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

you forgot the part where he can one shot anyone on your team regardless of how tanky they are if they are the villain.

I think you don't understand the definition of "one shot".

His ult only executes you if you're down to ~30% hp. There is no way he's "one shotting" anyone.

luckmalloryAug 24, 20152 votes

His ult will kill you at slightly below 50 percent health if you are the villain. Also AD garen Qing you auto once and ulting can happen in about one second. Maybe not a one shot by definition but at least darius has to ramp up to it. Nope if you are below 50 percent health and are the villain, you are automatically dead

Critmaster GarenAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

His ult will kill you at slightly below 50 percent health if you are the villain. Also AD garen Qing you auto once and ulting can happen in about one second. Maybe not a one shot by definition but at least darius has to ramp up to it. Nope if you are below 50 percent health and are the villain, you are automatically dead

titanic hydra + w then ult can do the same for darius against a squishy tbh.

and darius has a ramp up, but when he gets 5 stacks on a single opponent, he has the potenial for chain dunks really quickly. garen will take out 1 target fast if he gets to it. darius will take out your team if he gets 5 stacks.

yes, darius is too weak right now, but buffs are on their way.

luckmalloryAug 24, 20152 votes

yeah except darius doesnt have 600 movespeed with DMP. Also do you even realize how hard it is to get 5 stacks? i can assure you after his ult damage nerf he cannot TH active W ult and kill a squishy.

Zorae42Aug 24, 20152 votes

How does his ult kill you at slightly less than 50%? Unless you're super squishy and that 525 base dmg on it is a third of your health, then it shouldn't be possible.

Being the villain doesn't increase the amount it does. It just makes you take the full amount.

And having the requirement of being at 50% healh makes it nowhere near a one-shot. As someone who often plays squishy-immobile champs that can often be burst down from full in the same ammount of time by assassins, I don't really have any sympathy...

luckmalloryAug 24, 20152 votes

The problem is that he can build full tank and still do 1200-1600 true damage. Thats toxic to the game. Also his ult does 40 percent of your missing health as well so yes you can easily kill somebody at 45 percent HP.

Assassins actually have to build full damage, garen can have 5000 health and 300 of each resist and still do that

Zorae42Aug 24, 20152 votes

He only does that much on a tanky character that is also the villain (not very common). On squishies it wont do anywhere near that much.

40% of 55% (amount missing) is 22%. So unless 525 is 23% of your health (~2.3k max), then no it shouldn't. Maybe around late mid-game, where tanks haven't stacked their health that high...

Again, this all only happens to the villain of the team. Which shouldn't be the tank anyway.

luckmalloryAug 24, 20152 votes

I think we are all forgetting the 400 damage silence and 1000 damage E that does 9 percent of your max health as true damage as well. If you are the villain you are fucked, the game punishes you for playing well

Ben SharpioAug 24, 20151 votes

As someone who builds extremely tanky, i've had a personal experience against a Garen. He fucking shredded me with ease. Silence after Silence, there was pretty much no way to get away from him OR chase him if he's about to die. Nobody had a problem with him before his patch because he was tanky and output a fair amount of damage. Now, it doesn't make ANY sense for someone to build full tank and be able to melt an adc with ease. The new villain passive is just retarded. Garen is already a braindead champion, but now they're giving him more play potential and people abuse his bullshit power. He's cancerous right now. If both of us build full tank, we should both be outputting a relatively similar amount of damage. Instead, his passive acts as an extra item that allows him to do whatever the fuck he wants. CC him? Ok lets just forget about the 4 other members of the team and he has gapclosers OUT THE ASS... He's now turned into a champion where you have to end the game before 20 minutes before he rips your dick off and beats you with it until you surrender because you cant deal with his bullshit anymore. His villain passive makes no sense either, it rotates to ANYONE on the team. I've seen my support with 0 kills become the villain and then what happens next? You guessed it, MELTED.

JesuszillaAug 24, 20152 votes

He gets the ability to secure kills on the Villain, someone he can't control who gets that. So it's really good on whoever is fed, allowing a team to make some comebacks without being stomped out and put down. Sure Garen does well himself, he now has damage like he should. Garen has no hard CC, his Silence got nerfed, his movespeed ability nerfed, his ultimate is only usable on one person in a fight, and his judgement is his only major form of damage, and it doesn't do a whole lot against someone who isn't the villain.

He is easily kitable, and doesn't off much to secure a win on his own. He can be crowd controlled and bursted, or kited and avoided until his team cleans up everyone else. Sure he barrels into your team to get the Villain, and you let them lead him out of the fight and get an easy 4v4. Not to mention he has several lane counters too. Sure he got a huge rise in win rate, but did you think maybe that has to do with him eating current meta picks, or being picked a large amount?

I played Garen before the rework, and I won plenty of times with him. I've also played against him post rework and watched him crumble.

azrolatorAug 24, 20151 votes

@luck5862 - Garen's e now does 50 extra damage for every 100 AD he adds. But only after level 16 and maxed E. So if you fight a Garen with 300 AD and stay in his E for the entire duration you will take an extra 150 damage compared to before at end game. If you are the villain and say he q's you before the spin and aa's you once after, that is an extra 12% max health as true damage combined, but only on the villain. If you have say 2k hps then that is 270 extra damage compared to before. His ult can only do true damage on one target, but it used to be magic damage and most champs aren't building a ton of MR so the extra damage on the villain from the ult is nothing like what you are making it out to be. The damage on it is the same as before. So yeah. if he builds 300 damage he could do the amount of damage you are talking about to very low armor targets. Of course he will be squishy because those numbers aren't achievable while building pure tank or even largely tank. And with the armors all getting nerfed he will be squishier than ever. And all he has to do to pay for that extra 270 damage + 12% max hps true damage to only one specific champ is have his movespeed nerfed, his silence nerfed, his armor scaling nerfed, his tenacity removed, his early-mid game damage nerfed and be forced to target only one specific champ and be much squishier. I like him, he is my champ. I like that they tried to make him relevant at the late game, but they didn't really. And they nerfed him early for that mediocre late game bump. I would rather have the old Garen back or at least fix the early game nerfs because he was desperately in need of late game fixing and didn't need the early game nerfs to make up for it. They aren't close to worth it. I could play other bruisers and late game delete some squishies easier and faster and without having to try to target a specific champ. IE Pantheon. High Ad scaling e, higher scaling q, ult that does 1000 damage but its area, and more innate tankiness and even has hard cc. I think you are just used to Garen being someone that could be completely ignored late game and can't handle that he has been brought more in line with bruisers. If you think he is doing that damage while building pure tank then you are mistaken.