A reason many people hate bottom lane(and by proxy autofill).

Mira Arya Enthe··16 votes·1,283 views

Bot lane fucking sucks.

One role is a ward bot because Riot nerfs them anytime they get strong. Or is a pseudo carry mage who relies on frustrating cheese harass and early kills on a class with no early game agency. I'd say at least tank supports are fun but it has been so long since I heard anything about milking those that I forgot if they are fun.

The other role plays whack'a'minion for 20 minutes while dodging skillshots and hoping they get the 4 man gank and are given the kills so they can be a relevant champion by 30 minutes. Or plays a cheesy lane bully and just prevents the other side from playing the game for 20 minutes and wins by just making your side worthless.

This was actually all fine when bot lane was a passive lane about farming and supports didn't need money while ADCs spiked at buying BF sword enough to be relevant. Ganks were harder and snowball was less relevant because dragon and towers weren't so criplling.

But that gameplay is never coming back. With stuff like Vel'Koz and Caitlyn Harass and 4 man ganks, people who can one shot squishies like Jhin and bot lane swallowing mages and getting them gutted. Rior really needs to think about how fun it isn't playing Marksman, Enchanter or Tank bot lane these days.

That would be the first step towards making people accept autofill.

I miss playing Soraka Ashe Leona I don't care if they are viable or not. The lane is just miserable. I get autofilled and feel mad, not because I hate supporting or playing ADC. I love these three champs here. But because there is so much aggression in bot lane now that you either have to join it and play Caitlyn/Zyra or defy it by picking Jhin/Morgana and hiding out of gank range.

I think ADC and Supports need an overhaul in general. But for now we at least need it to be less miserable seeing "You have been autofilled!"

44 Comments

Ralanr8 votes

Bot lane fucking sucks.

Really there's no better way of saying it. You're stuck with someone you don't know that you have to rely on and you have all the early game objectives nearby which only makes people want to come down more.

Bot lane is two of three birds that everyone is trying to kill with one stone.

Ben Sharpio6 votes

Braum : hey lucian im going to ward stay safe!

_an ally has been slain _

Braum : ....

Lucian cao ni ma SB trash fk supp gg

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

Soraka AA's minions nonstop with no wards up vs Draven and Leona with Lee jungler

Ashe "Soraka can you not push the waves while I am trying to farm please? We are behind and don't need to extend"

Soraka Spams Q on minions as well now "Fuck you asshole"

Goes both ways. It is human nature that some people are assholes regardless of their selected role. The only reason Support has slightly less toxicity than carry is that carry has more pressure on them. Just as playing Riven is not only more stressful than say Nautilus. But you are far more likely to get insulted playing Riven.

Ralanr2 votes

This is why I hate having "supports" whenever I get stuck in adc.

Like, guys I know I suck at the role, but I'm trying to get better. Can't really get better if I can't trust people to protect me.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

People with this dragon item are the most intelligent.

Awesomedude88882 votes

This is literally my support in a large proportion of my games when I fall behind on stuff that does not have a good early game.

Awesomedude88882 votes

As an ADC main, I love me some infernal (and mountain) drakes.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

As a Shyvana main I love me some dragons.

Ahristocats4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

Bot lane fucking sucks.

i'll try to keep my biase out as a support main then

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

One role is a ward bot because Riot nerfs them anytime they get strong.

that's like saying midlane/toplane/adc is a farm bot role Supports have as much to do as any other role: teamfight+roaming+instead of farming they have to ward. What exactly is wrong with warding? Supports have the power of life and death in their hands every single one of them(except the universal exception that is Sona) have the ability to decide if an ally dies or not, and if an enemy dies or not bard ult tahm kench W thresh W

and why the fuck are you adding bot to it? Warding has evolve from warding the entire map to ward 3 important location+control wards that can dominate a game if placed in objective areas or sieging against twitch and eve

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

Or is a pseudo carry mage who relies on frustrating cheese harass and early kills on a class with no early game agency.

Malzahar is the only remaining one that i see played botlane, everything else has almost disappeared zyra vel'koz or brand and that's good malzahar just needs to be gutted then reworked

on the other hand, there are unfun "supports" that you low elo players don't have to deal with

Camille costless low risk All in, combined with one of the most frustrating ult ever, she's tankier than braum or alistar while going full tank and still deals as much damage as a bruiser(which is a lot by definition) MissFortune no counterplay poke + one of the most braindead teamfight spell that has too much base damage Nautilus no reasons to pick leona instead of nautilus, no reasons at all

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

I'd say at least tank supports are fun but it has been so long since I heard anything about milking those that I forgot if they are fun.

Braum nerfed into oblivion TahmKench nerfed into oblivion Alistar is being buffed Blitzcrank works perfectly well until diamond 1 Leona i don't want this pick to be viable again, when she's viable she just forces enchenters to not be picked

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

With stuff like Vel'Koz and Caitlyn Harass and 4 man ganks

wtf is this? highest win rate adcs are twitch kog lucian kalista right now, why the fuck are you talking about caitlyn? bork is busted, caitlyn isn't and doesn't build bork. If you're a bork abuser you just buy item 1053 sustain the lane with warlord and destroy her later

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

people who can one shot squishies like Jhin

Teach me how you can oneshot someone with jhin, i want to abuse it cause i can't seem to do that

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

Rior really needs to think about how fun it isn't playing Marksman, Enchanter or Tank bot lane these days.

Thresh Lulu karma nami soraka janna and even sona until you arrive in high elo

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

I don't care if they are viable or not. The lane is just miserable.

for tank supprots? yes, because of infinity poke that they receive playing braum is impossible everything else is not miserable

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

But because there is so much aggression in bot lane now that you either have to join it and play Caitlyn/Zyra

if you can't win 2v2 with lulu you did something bad If you can't disengage a fight or negate the poke with janna you did something bad i could go on it for years

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:33:12.433+0000)

I think ADC and Supports need an overhaul in general.

correction: tank supports need massive buffs because they suck

enchenters need a rework to make them feel different

adc don't need anything until they become an option, because it's been 7 years that the role has never been balanced ADC: always 2 or 3 picks and everything else sucks toplane: always 1 or 2 picks above everything else, but you can still play everything

and if you don't believe me look at toplane viable picks since the begining

if i ignored things in your thread it means you were right

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-30T18:05:18.341+0000)

MissFortune no counterplay poke + one of the most braindead teamfight spell that has too much base damage

Which poke? The one that does no damage, or the one she can't use unless she takes Relic Shield? Also, apparently 0 is too much base damage.

Look, MF support is a troll pick into everyone not named Malzahar, who she counters due to the ability to instamurder his Pokemon. Outside of that matchup, she has no peel, little damage, no engage, and basically sucks ass.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Which poke?

i don't know, the one doing 80+80% AP at lvl 1? and that also happens to slow by an amount making you almost snared? if she happens to have jhin or caitlyn you're going to get destroyed

mf support is a troll pick in low elo mf support in high elo knows how to play and will win almost all the time unless you have a top tier sup

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

80+80% AP over 2 seconds* There's a reason MF isn't built AP. And the slow is only 28% at level 1, up to 60% at rank 5. That's really not very good. And don't forget that it costs 1/4 of her level 1 Mana pool!

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-03-31T16:56:25.250+0000)

mf support in high elo knows how to play and will win almost all the time unless you have a top tier sup

Really? Let's check that. According to LoLalytics and OP.GG, she has a 43% winrate in Plat+. Champion.gg puts her even lower, at a 42.5% winrate. Again, Plat+ only. And I know you're going to say Plat players don't count, but they do. Even if they're worse than you, they're still the top 10% of all players.

KaptainD1 votes

Teach me how you can oneshot someone with jhin

I think when he said 'people who can oneshot squishies like Jhin' Jhin was the squishy, not the one doing the oneshotting. Sorry just needed to say that, I pretty much agree with everything else you said though.

Great Muta3 votes

Bot lane is for masochists:

  • You are the weakest person in the game for the first 6 levels and usually for the first 20-30 minutes. You have low hp, bad armor, no escapes and single auto attacks.

  • Because you have a support, you share XP. You will be down 1-3 levels on the other lanes at all times and if they get fed and you don't, that can get to 4-5 levels down.

  • You have to deal with supports. In low ELO, most supports aren't very good and often turn 2v2's into 1v3's and 1v1v2. My supports insist on hitting minions despite me begging them not to which screws up my farming. And when the support wants to go in you either die with them or get yelled at for not doing so.

  • You will be taking a 4v2 at some point during laning phase and you aren't winning that trade. People like Talon and Kat can one combo you before you can even try to fight back.

  • Your early game items suck. Do you want to deal damage or do you want to farm better? Your call.

  • Farming is tough for ADC's. You have to last hit everything and really pay attention while people like Talon, Shyv and others can hit 6 minions at once.

  • Most games end now before 40 minions when ADC's get strong. So you are trading a weak early game for a great late game that never comes. 4 of my last 30 games went hit 40 minutes. I'm giving a lot and getting nothing back.

It is the hardest position to play when you factor in all of this.

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

You forgot one.

Your team picks Teemo top, Yi jungle, Talon mid, and Vel'koz support. They don't get fed. Then they complain that "omg ADC useless" because you get no peel while the enemy 4-0 Jax runs right at you.

RainXBlade2 votes

Stuff like this is why I have no faith in people that go AP "Supports" when I play ADC.

Big Lincoln3 votes

One role is a ward bot because Riot nerfs them anytime they get strong.

maybe because they're low counterplay and/or low interaction champions and if they're strong enough to go into a solo lane it usually means the game is about to head into the shitter for somebody else, be it fighter top lanes or mid lane assassins

bot lane sucks because marksmen are mandatory to any team comp that wants to be taken seriously. that's pretty much the crux of the issue.

Penns2 votes

No we are just retards tbh. Poor Lulu cant be op, in the end protecting people is what she is supposed to do, and its impossible to do your job too well. If an assassin literally oneshots you in .1 seconds with 0 risk thats fine as well, assassins are supposed to blow squishies up lel

RainXBlade2 votes

Isn't it Lulu's job to permanently put the enemy's juggernaut and/or assassin under a handicap because of the way her kit works. If a Lulu can't protect herself or her carry from the enemy's assassin or diver, then the Lulu player is doing something wrong there.

Big Lincoln1 votes

you might as well just say she counters melees, dude

Ralanr1 votes

Enchanters pretty much do.

Big Lincoln1 votes

tfw half the ranged roster is anti melee but one melee champ that can counter ranged cancer is reviled

hard life being melee

BlastRush2 votes

Anyone else fine with it?

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Must be a Caitlyn main. Very few people enjoy playing bottom lane. Just as one tricks and dedicated top laners gate people off the island of worthlessness. Bot lane misery makes it unfun to play.

BlastRush1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:39:20.915+0000)

Must be a Caitlyn main. Very few people enjoy playing bottom lane. Just as one tricks and dedicated top laners gate people off the island of worthlessness. Bot lane misery makes it unfun to play.

Yes caitlyn is my most played. I also play lots of other adcs and I just generally enjoy the role. Just an opinion

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Well I'd expect you to be fine with the misery in bot lane if your playing one of the biggest causes of it.

BlastRush1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-30T17:49:38.236+0000)

Well I'd expect you to be fine with the misery in bot lane if your playing one of the biggest causes of it.

I played her the most, doesnt mean I only play her. I barely have any games on her in my recent games.

Lil Lewd Witch2 votes

I kinda have to agree... I kinda of mained ADC a few seasons ago when you could pick any ADC and do fairly well. Now its, Pick Ezreal Lucian Caitlyn for maximum safety and still hope you don't get focused while your attacks tickle the tanks barreling down at you.

ADC feels like a glorified lane minion that occasionally takes dragon/baron. Support is in a meh, state. I have been doing really well with Trundle Support this season still but I am in gold where most supports are just bad or trying to copy cat the pros without knowing how to do it.

USG Patient2 votes

I love bot lane, anybody who says supports are just ward bots clearly has no idea what roaming is. It's about zoning, looking for opportunities to run up to mid or get deep wards down. And adc is the same thing, everybody always pushes their lanes and never seizes roaming opportunities, at least in low elo. It's always push push push then cry when constantly ganked, which is no different than mid or top lane. Ward up, pay attention to the mini map, ping mia/omw/going on this target and just look for good opportunity to take objective/roams. It's not that hard

BlastRush2 votes

You're probably saying this because you dont know how to play bot lane correctly lmao

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

people who can one shot squishies like Jhin

Imma stop you right there. Jhin four shots squishies.

With that out of the way, you make many good points as to why many people despise botlane.

However I'd just like to say it's also one of the funnest lanes if your lane partner is somebody you know OR if you're the support and you know what you're doing and if the ADC knows what they're doing.

If you both know what you're doing, it's perfectly possible to play stuff like Leo, Raka or Ashe in this meta without fear because you'll know to freeze waves and whatnot to make the lane bullies easy jungler chow.

As for the four man ganks, yeah those suck.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

I am a Jungle/Support player. While I suck at Ashe I am more than aware how to play support. In fact I use to support more than any other role. I agree it is fun sometimes with a friend. I play Ashe with Lulu(Keira Helsh) or Ashe with another support(AndreiRayanovsky) and they make it fun sometimes. But even then some of these things still overwrite the fun they bring.

Or Andrei complaining about Lee, Yas, Riven, Vayne does ;P.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Lol. Well you already know I play Mid, but I can also Top and Support. I play a mean Taric/Leona.

In fact I played with Ralnar and some of his buddies, and one of them was Ashe. Our synergy was Extremely good. It makes sense when you think about it, as Ashes slows make easy stuns and passive procs from Taric while he lets her surive stuff like Rengar eaiser with his Armor buff and shield+ult.

One of the things that makes playing a duo lane with a friend eaiser is that you aren't playing with a stranger every game where you have to determine their playstyle on the passive or aggressive side of things all the time. With a friend you can "learn" each other's styles and reactions so you can act more cohesively.

RainXBlade2 votes

I might as well give out a list of factors on why bot lane was in a really horrible spot and still is right now:

  • When you're begging for the support to pick a dedicated support but instead goes stuff like Zyra, Brand, Vel'koz and/or Malzahar because, "hurrdurrr I can't trust my ADC so I'll ignore him, take all his CS, go for an early game cheese and if it fails, I'll blame my ADC because I have every right to blame the ADC I laned with and I'm protected from trashtalk because I'm still the support and in right."
  • Ziggs APC. He abused the shit out of the first blood tower mechanic by just pushing the enemy into their tower then 7-10 mins later, he just clicks W on the tower and boom, free 550 global gold by not interacting with the enemy laner and going all 9/11 on his ass.
  • 4 Man Bot into first blood tower and free drake. Not gonna elaborate on this because this is a bs strategy from the start and up to now it still is.
  • Lethality ADC's. That's all.
  • Even though this is old, I might as well say it: #ADCin2017LUL

Stuff like this is the reason why I quit playing ADC for a long time, well until I started picking up Ezreal and Jhin again.

Penns1 votes

One role is a ward bot because Riot nerfs them anytime they get strong.

Janna Lulu http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/thinking-face.png

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

Angry fizz main angry he cannot oneshot everything

Penns3 votes

I guess everyone is a Fizz main because I never ban Lulu and she has been perma banned in all my games for a a few weeks now lol

Nymzo2 votes

By ''few weeks'' you mean since everyone copied the pros since they played her at the LCS.

Which is like 2 weeks at best.

Man those defensives spells on those Enchanters tho. This is totaly not the only thing that they can do late game while also giving up lane pressure in the early game, man.

Penns1 votes

Im pretty sure people in around low diamond would ban something op over something "everyone copied from the pros because she was played in lcs".

Also sure, Lulu, one of the strongest lane bully supports atm gives up lane pressure for it kappa

Nymzo2 votes

That's how being a flavor of month champ works, it's either you are pick or ban or somehow nobody took the champion.

Yea Lulu has as much pressure as a disrupter kappa.

Also you can be a lane bully and not give any pressure at all. Cough Zilean who is probably another one of your worst enemy with only his ult.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=psrXVkU6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-03-30T18:02:54.365+0000)

Angry fizz main angry he cannot oneshot everything

So are you under the impression that Lulu is weak right now or something? You're sort of sidestepping the fact that Lulu is the best support in the game and is extremely strong right now, and certainly not just a ward bot.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I see it slightly differently.

Normally the support is someone who wanted a different role and/or doesn't know how the play the role with the rare exception. So, because of how the lane is, this person can either win the lane or lose the lane and most of them don't realize that they are the deciding factor in this 90% of the time. I have turned many ganks with Brand support or Lulu or Janna or Thresh, it just requires that you actually PROTECT THE ADC. Most people don't get that part of the job. This doesn't mean you are their bitch, but if there are Rengar eye's lingering over your ADC, maybe you should stand near them so Rengar has a slightly more difficult time murdering that ADC.

On the other side, ADC can range from the baby rager who's upset that you didn't flash ult and exhaust the Rengar while you're dead to the people who understand that that mistake is their fault for pushing up alone. Depending on the person, most of the time they realize that they need to be protected, but only some actually try to do something while being attacked rather than just trying to drain tank while eating skill shots and crying "gg, no peel".

Literally just had a game where my Sona support built item 3285 item 3165 item 3174 item 2301 item 3107 item 3100 . That's, what, 70% CDR from items alone. I'm fine with a support that builds damage, but please, actually build GOOD items for your champ. Build Sona like a midlaner for all I care with deathcap and all, but not don't waste so much gold on capped stats.
Enemy support was Ashe with Bond of stone who built item 2301 item 3504 item 3158 item 3065 item 3109 item 3085 . Surprisingly, all those items sorta synergize with her role this game.

Best part was after the game she said "s- i can't carry as support kms". Not if you build like that. Not if you don't use your one active. Not if you run ignite and then stand 60 feet behind me all lane only to walk up and Q once or twice. And especially not if you wait till 41 minutes into the game to buy a sightstone.

Aptest1 votes

My personal experience with bottom lane in the previous 20-30 games is this:

bot lane wins and loses games... ...but whether it wins or loses the game does not depend on the bottom lane players.

whether the lane is won or lost has limited bearing on whether the game is won. the victory is achieved through jungle and mid lane making plays on bottom lane, with the passive support of bottom.

if bottom lane is fed, it has limited bearing on the game because the mid lane and jungler are specifically good at killing the fed bottom laner. if not fed, same situation. The game will lose if the mid lane or jungler suck and do shit ganks and feed the opposing bottom lane or anyone else on the enemy team.

what should happen are two things: the jungler should become more voulnerable to plays against him from the bottom lane. winning bottom lane should be able to more easily extend power against the enemy jungler. the mid lane should be easier to kill as an ADC or support, with the asssitance of mid lane or the jungler, and turning on the gank and trolololing away with your escape skill AND a kill should be more difficult for a typical mid laner.

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