LS's newest vodcast really made me think

Hammermancer·Jul 26, 2019·25 votes·11,363 views

Look, I've thought for a long time that I've been sick of the arbitrary rotation of 20 or so slots of useful champions in this game.

Riot has clearly not been approaching balance in the right way if the game is less fun the way they do it.

Who here is sick of their main getting nerfed every time they get strong

or like, they nerf the king of a class because the whole class is making another class completely obsolete but they don't fix the core issue.

He makes a compelling argument

51 Comments

chipndip1Jul 26, 201915 votes

Why are you quoting LS to make this point? LS's vision of balance is largely centered around pro play. He doesn't a singular fuck about what anyone below Master tier thinks about the game's balance.

That said, let's say Riot "balances the game", then the question is "balance it for WHO?". First off, they can't balance this game in any capacity without comms, and they REFUSE to add them. Some champs, like Yuumi and Galio, have their potential locked behind coordination while other champs, like Sona support and most assassins, gain power due to a lack of coordination. The true power level of quite a few champs won't be realized in solo queue simply due to the environment of solo queue. However, if you balance the game for the sake of coordinated play (which you'd expect for a team game), you can bet your bottom dollar and the two quarters under it that we'll NEVER hear the end of "OMG RIOT SELLING OUT TO THE CHINE$E FUCK TENCENT AND THEIR PRO PLAY LC$ BULL$HIT".

The game's balance is shoddy because Riot, despite the lack of credit where it's due, refuses to sacrifice the experience of solo queue players to improve it. They've only recently tried to say "Hey, maybe we should sharpen match-ups so there'll be a need to pick more champions than the best 3 in every lane" just because they feared how sharper match-ups would effect average players. LS doesn't give a fuck about solo queue balance. Why would you quote him?

WeztJul 26, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Why are you quoting LS to make this point? LS's vision of balance is largely centered around pro play. He doesn't a singular fuck about what anyone below Master tier thinks about the game's balance.

That said, let's say Riot "balances the game", then the question is "balance it for WHO?". First off, they can't balance this game in any capacity without comms, and they REFUSE to add them. Some champs, like Yuumi and Galio, have their potential locked behind coordination while other champs, like Sona support and most assassins, gain power due to a lack of coordination. The true power level of quite a few champs won't be realized in solo queue simply due to the environment of solo queue. However, if you balance the game for the sake of coordinated play (which you'd expect for a team game), you can bet your bottom dollar and the two quarters under it that we'll NEVER hear the end of "OMG RIOT SELLING OUT TO THE CHINE$E FUCK TENCENT AND THEIR PRO PLAY LC$ BULL$HIT".

The game's balance is shoddy because Riot, despite the lack of credit where it's due, refuses to sacrifice the experience of solo queue players to improve it. They've only recently tried to say "Hey, maybe we should sharpen match-ups so there'll be a need to pick more champions than the best 3 in every lane" just because they feared how sharper match-ups would effect average players. LS doesn't give a fuck about solo queue balance. Why would you quote him?

Honestly that's the problem with League for me. Riot has to 'please' its players, which are mostly silver-bronze. So the balance of the game focuses around that. I mean, it's logical, but man it feels so disgusting for people that actually take the game a little bit more seriously to have to deal with stuff like a dumb champ getting nerfed because silvers where crying about it, when in reality they just had no idea of how to play against it. I'm not saying that focusing on higher elo players is better or anything like that, to be honest I don't know, but I do know that, from the perspective of a high elo player (lets say d4+), the game sucks right now.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 26, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Honestly that's the problem with League for me. Riot has to 'please' its players, which are mostly silver-bronze. So the balance of the game focuses around that. I mean, it's logical, but man it feels so disgusting for people that actually take the game a little bit more seriously to have to deal with stuff like a dumb champ getting nerfed because silvers where crying about it, when in reality they just had no idea of how to play against it. I'm not saying that focusing on higher elo players is better or anything like that, to be honest I don't know, but I do know that, from the perspective of a high elo player (lets say d4+), the game sucks right now.

As I ALWAYS point out, this half-half balancing could only work for so long. We've long since hit the point where the requirements/needs of pro and high ELO are grossly different from PUBs/PUGs. Riot continues to live in a world where the pro scene is "bad" enough (Read: Seasons 1-4-ish) that solo queue changes won't impact the meta so much. They live in a world where you can realistically balance Azir, Kalista and Ryze for PUG and Pro play.

This world doesn't exist.

Riot needs to take a hardline stance on either side. Balance for pros and make the game 100% pro centric? Fine. Cool. Say fuck the pros and go full-on Fortnite? Yeah sure, whatever, your call. But this 50/50 balancing act is making nobody happy. Pros don't get the changes they need and you still have PUG/casual players accusing Riot of only catering to pros when in actuality 75% of balance changes are made towards solo queue and below plat gameplay.

At this point I just want them to pick one or the other and commit, because this juggling is just making everyone annoyed. Might have worked when everyone who played was bad, even pros, but the skill ceiling is too high now. You can't clean a skyscraper by just using a long mop anymore.

WeztJul 26, 20191 votes

I 100% agree with you. I think this is the reason League is slowing dying and this will be the cause of its death. If you want to play this game casually and simply have fun with friends, you just can't. It's frustrating, it's boring, dying 1 or 2 times means you are most likely going to spend the rest of the game dying till you lose and go next, specially if you're bad/low-elo, and chances are you are bad/low-elo if you see League as a casual game.

On the other hand, if you want to play it like a serious, competitive sport, well surprise. Low-elo-oriented balance changes, champions, and decisions will keep coming your way, and you have two options: Adapt to this unfunny shit storm, or quit.

And now with TFT im 99% sure they don't even care about reviving League, and they just gave up.

AYAYA SupportJul 26, 20194 votes

In my opinion, balancing a game for Masters is a very good idea, because you are incentivizing noobs to learn their champions and the game and become masters, so that they can utilize their powers to the max. Balancing around weak players makes skilled players feel unrewarded and weak players have false sense of skill.

HammermancerJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Why are you quoting LS to make this point? LS's vision of balance is largely centered around pro play. He doesn't a singular fuck about what anyone below Master tier thinks about the game's balance.

Because we get placed in matches against other who peform the same as us, and mastery of the game being balanced means the game is ultimately balaced BUT he also says to make some stuff not all derpy

That said, let's say Riot "balances the game", then the question is "balance it for WHO?". First off, they can't balance this game in any capacity without comms, and they REFUSE to add them. Some champs, like Yuumi and Galio, have their potential locked behind coordination while other champs, like Sona support and most assassins, gain power due to a lack of coordination. The true power level of quite a few champs won't be realized in solo queue simply due to the environment of solo queue. However, if you balance the game for the sake of coordinated play (which you'd expect for a team game), you can bet your bottom dollar and the two quarters under it that we'll NEVER hear the end of "OMG RIOT SELLING OUT TO THE CHINE$E FUCK TENCENT AND THEIR PRO PLAY LC$ BULL$HIT".

But we already hear that pretty regularly, and what's another few of that same thread?

The game's balance is shoddy because Riot, despite the lack of credit where it's due, refuses to sacrifice the experience of solo queue players to improve it. They've only recently tried to say "Hey, maybe we should sharpen match-ups so there'll be a need to pick more champions than the best 3 in every lane" just because they feared how sharper match-ups would effect average players. LS doesn't give a fuck about solo queue balance. Why would you quote him?

because I like what he just said o n this.

You know the year before they introduced autofill I used to play with a 5 man in ranked, flex is not the same thing. Something about flex is so very wrong.

0megonJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Why are you quoting LS to make this point? LS's vision of balance is largely centered around pro play. He doesn't a singular fuck about what anyone below Master tier thinks about the game's balance.

That said, let's say Riot "balances the game", then the question is "balance it for WHO?". First off, they can't balance this game in any capacity without comms, and they REFUSE to add them. Some champs, like Yuumi and Galio, have their potential locked behind coordination while other champs, like Sona support and most assassins, gain power due to a lack of coordination. The true power level of quite a few champs won't be realized in solo queue simply due to the environment of solo queue. However, if you balance the game for the sake of coordinated play (which you'd expect for a team game), you can bet your bottom dollar and the two quarters under it that we'll NEVER hear the end of "OMG RIOT SELLING OUT TO THE CHINE$E FUCK TENCENT AND THEIR PRO PLAY LC$ BULL$HIT".

The game's balance is shoddy because Riot, despite the lack of credit where it's due, refuses to sacrifice the experience of solo queue players to improve it. They've only recently tried to say "Hey, maybe we should sharpen match-ups so there'll be a need to pick more champions than the best 3 in every lane" just because they feared how sharper match-ups would effect average players. LS doesn't give a fuck about solo queue balance. Why would you quote him?

And that is where the balance should always be aimed at. High elo and pro play. Buffing champions because low skilled players cannot utilise their potential and nerfing champions because low skilled players cannot play against them is just wrong. High elo is where the champions and game are played to their full potential so that should be around what the balancing is done because that is actually the only REAL balance we can have even when it might seem to the low elo players(me included) as unbalanced.

NelsieLisnenJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Why are you quoting LS to make this point? LS's vision of balance is largely centered around pro play. He doesn't a singular fuck about what anyone below Master tier thinks about the game's balance.

That said, let's say Riot "balances the game", then the question is "balance it for WHO?". First off, they can't balance this game in any capacity without comms, and they REFUSE to add them. Some champs, like Yuumi and Galio, have their potential locked behind coordination while other champs, like Sona support and most assassins, gain power due to a lack of coordination. The true power level of quite a few champs won't be realized in solo queue simply due to the environment of solo queue. However, if you balance the game for the sake of coordinated play (which you'd expect for a team game), you can bet your bottom dollar and the two quarters under it that we'll NEVER hear the end of "OMG RIOT SELLING OUT TO THE CHINE$E FUCK TENCENT AND THEIR PRO PLAY LC$ BULL$HIT".

The game's balance is shoddy because Riot, despite the lack of credit where it's due, refuses to sacrifice the experience of solo queue players to improve it. They've only recently tried to say "Hey, maybe we should sharpen match-ups so there'll be a need to pick more champions than the best 3 in every lane" just because they feared how sharper match-ups would effect average players. LS doesn't give a fuck about solo queue balance. Why would you quote him?

I don't get your premise, namely your first 3 sentences. Shouldn't soloQ/lower elo players be concerned with the state of higher elo/pro play if they care about playing the game as best as they can? And it's not like mains and OTPs are not affected by those skill brackets depending on what champs they use. I am not even bothering with Ranked but even with my inexperience I can feel the difference between a champ being strong in a vacuum and a champ being strong in a team environment, a champ being strong because of bad players and a champ being strong because of a player's skill. As a personal example, I had to watch actual professional analysts and high elo players explain how Yasuo is actually not op before I understood how to exploit his weaknesses and stop getting pummeled by him. Nowadays I never bother banning him, if anything I feel empathetic towards Yasuo one tricks and mains that have to deal with all the bans and general stupidity of players that refuse to understand the champ.

chipndip1Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't get your premise, namely your first 3 sentences. Shouldn't soloQ/lower elo players be concerned with the state of higher elo/pro play if they care about playing the game as best as they can?

They should, but they don't and I've been on these boards long enough to understand that.

Like, just SIX minutes into the video and LS starts talking about how you should sharpen champion match-ups, so instead of nerfing champs, you draft answers to strong champs in other lanes and play those answers out in the team fight stage of the game. That already is massively incompatible with the solo queue mindset.

Is this the right answer. One thousand times yes.

Is it the answer solo queue players wanna hear? NO.

That's what I'm commenting on, really. I agree with LS's views on balance, but I know that solo queue players largely just want League to feel balanced to them, where THEY always have a decent shot to win, not necessarily holistically.

NelsieLisnenJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They should, but they don't and I've been on these boards long enough to understand that.

Like, just SIX minutes into the video and LS starts talking about how you should sharpen champion match-ups, so instead of nerfing champs, you draft answers to strong champs in other lanes and play those answers out in the team fight stage of the game. That already is massively incompatible with the solo queue mindset.

Is this the right answer. One thousand times yes.

Is it the answer solo queue players wanna hear? NO.

That's what I'm commenting on, really. I agree with LS's views on balance, but I know that solo queue players largely just want League to feel balanced to them, where THEY always have a decent shot to win, not necessarily holistically.

I suppose you might be right about the majority but that's as good a guess as any. At least the poster seems to care about actual balance. I myself am already fed up with the mindset that's prevalent in my elo, that is, abyss elo, like the inability or unwillingness to draft around teammates and enemies, conform your playstyle, listen to pings and discern bad calls and I've been a soloQ player for the 5 measly months I've been playing the game. I'd be all in for those changes, at least if the meta became more complex and drafting was more demanding people would treat the game as it's supposed to, a team strategy game, rather than an arena where you get to flex your alter ego fantasy skills.

Tahminatrix Jul 26, 20198 votes

Its not just how they nerfed tahm kench that made me sick, its how they buffed him in the first place in order to compensate him for his W self ground + slow...

They buff his q slow + cd...and all that ever does is make tahm kench oppressive against immobile champs...his q slow and cd buffs were what really pushed him into toplane and made him oppressive against immobile champs, especially immobile melee.

Then they take away things that don't even make him oppressive, using your q to stack as tahm kench is increadibly important for playing against mobile champions, its the only reward you get for landing it on them since the slow is almost completely ignored via dashes / blinks...

Soon after the 9.14 patch, riot quickly gives tahm kench some buffs because all of the nerfs were too much....

What was one of those buffs?

Even more cc on tahm`s q, even more than pre 9.14...

He had a 1/3rd increase to stun duration and slow duration on his q...with only a 1/4th increase to cooldown compared to pre 9.14

At the cost of only being able to stack on enemies via auto attacking which he will never get to consistently do against a mobile champ but against immobile champs he will gladly bend them over as soon as he lands a single tongue lash....

All 9.14 did was make tahm kench even worse against mobile champs and take away his skill expression when playing against them, while keeping him equally if not even more oppressive against immobile champs....

congrats riot, you made tahm kench into something that NOBODY wants, you pushed him in a direction that NOBODY asked for,

Just nerf his ability to bully immobile champs and buff his ability to deal with those who have dashes, we know you can do this because you just did the exact opposite and a revert + nerf to q slow would bring you closer to this goal.

Necro Warrior87Jul 26, 20196 votes

LS aka “Last Straw” is always on the verge of commiting vehicular manslaughter. He has been assigned to multiple psychiatric hospitals, but always manages to escape due to the prison guards “bad pathing”.

Sir SaltarinJul 26, 20193 votes

LS, aka "Low Standards", is a commentator for the LCK that is often ridiculed for his annoying personality and questionable game knowledge. He is specifically known for his Annie and Tahm “Thomas” Kench two-trick-pony in low platinum solo-queue..

TheBrothersGrymmJul 26, 20193 votes

LS is so biased it aint funny, i hate him, cant watch LCK vods for missions cause hes on there spewing complete stupidity.

NelsieLisnenJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

LS is so biased it aint funny, i hate him, cant watch LCK vods for missions cause hes on there spewing complete stupidity.

Care to explain? Biased how? He criticizes every Riot balance change.

ChaeorJul 26, 20192 votes

thought of posting this on forums . but also thought ill get down voted to unseen . glad some one is sharing this

HammermancerJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

thought of posting this on forums . but also thought ill get down voted to unseen . glad some one is sharing this

I'm used to getting downvoted ^.^

RagnaveilJul 26, 20192 votes

Idk, im tired of toplane being ignored more than this rotation shit. Aatrox was deadass the only way a toplaner was gonna have an impact on the game other than being a Riven or Irelia (before her gutting) one trick. Now that his revive is gone he is more vulnerable to being focused down and bursted, in a meta where if the front is gone, the back will likely follow in seconds.

General Esdeath Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Idk, im tired of toplane being ignored more than this rotation shit. Aatrox was deadass the only way a toplaner was gonna have an impact on the game other than being a Riven or Irelia (before her gutting) one trick. Now that his revive is gone he is more vulnerable to being focused down and bursted, in a meta where if the front is gone, the back will likely follow in seconds.

Yeah, his core problem wasn't the revive, it was people not buying GW against him. It's like fighting Mundo in silver. He's OP until everyone has GW items, then he's just annoying.

RagnaveilJul 26, 20191 votes

Exactly.

HammermancerJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Idk, im tired of toplane being ignored more than this rotation shit. Aatrox was deadass the only way a toplaner was gonna have an impact on the game other than being a Riven or Irelia (before her gutting) one trick. Now that his revive is gone he is more vulnerable to being focused down and bursted, in a meta where if the front is gone, the back will likely follow in seconds.

top lane is literally only champions getting nerfed. Everyone gets nerfed for like two years and then a line of over the top buffs come through that riot wont follow through with uplifting the game around. Most of the more popular top laners just get nerfed into trash tier.

RagnaveilJul 26, 20191 votes

I mean, Riven deserves nerfs. Once a toplaner happens to go into mid, Mid mages complain and Riot immediately nerfs them to be weaker vs mages, which then prompts mages to be picked toplane to abuse that.

HammermancerJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean, Riven deserves nerfs. Once a toplaner happens to go into mid, Mid mages complain and Riot immediately nerfs them to be weaker vs mages, which then prompts mages to be picked toplane to abuse that.

Does she though? Or does she need counterplay options introduced to weaker champs?

Like people just want riot to remove riven amd then in 2 months theyll release a new champ... briven who has all the same bs because riven mains want a hard to master champ that is engaged and rewarding

Why do we have to have 'class dominance' metas where only x class, it's counters amd it's counters counters are allowed to exist?

Like tanks get op amd then tank killers (usually specific marksmen) come in then their counters (usually very specific assassins) come in

Then mages and foghters dont get to exist so then all the sudden they massively overbuff fighters and mages and you get last season where conq top laners/junglers ran around as mages 1shot everyone else

Couldnt play assassins outside of a select few because.outside of akali the entire assassin class struggles against bruisers.

Thats fine in some matches but they made it the law through nerfing powerful champs who could fight these bruisers and deal with mages (many of which are tanks)

And mid lane melee mains havent been allowed to win on diana, ekko. Fizz, Or nidalee for years now because riot immediately nerfs them when they get good.

Riot seems to think that the solution is always to remove powerful champions but like.. if the issue is they have too many options then the issue is really just that older members of the roster lack viablility due to too much specialist linearity

And i think thats true for most of the adc, tank, and mage rosters

Much of this could be solved through adding a few mechanics to kits and items

MasterDCloneJul 26, 20191 votes

my champ never gets strong in the first place but still gets nerfed, been like this for years honestly i just dont like the current jg meta but it will cycle back soon anyway

Modl Ryden lJul 26, 20191 votes

My qualm with these posts like this is that there only seems to me negative points to talk about. And that's completely fine.

By my concern lies in whether or not those negatives points can be realistically fixed. Like can you, the OP - or any poster, bring in discussion points that can improve on the negative points.

It's fine to agree and share opinions but not talking about ways they can be rectified does not help solve anything.

It's interesting what this post and the VODcast insights, but what does OP think can be done to fix it? It's a good topic to bring up by what are some examples you think you can do to make them better? That will help us come with ideas to talk about.

ZaFishboneJul 26, 20191 votes

I mean, in the last patch notes, LS didn't even seem to understand the difference between stealth, obscurity and camouflage, saying that Akali will now be revealable through control wards, so I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

HammermancerJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean, in the last patch notes, LS didn't even seem to understand the difference between stealth, obscurity and camouflage, saying that Akali will now be revealable through control wards, so I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

though he has been a professional high level coach right?

ZaFishboneJul 26, 20191 votes

For Koreans. And how well have they been doing again?

preternaturalJul 26, 20191 votes

booooooo hate this community like no other. now that LS said it everyone is onboard but me saying a literal week ago that riot should stop removing mechanics from champs and start adding them and buffing the collective roster gets down voted. boooooooooooooooooooo. worst community on the planet. not even the dark web be like this

Midg3tJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

booooooo hate this community like no other. now that LS said it everyone is onboard but me saying a literal week ago that riot should stop removing mechanics from champs and start adding them and buffing the collective roster gets down voted. boooooooooooooooooooo. worst community on the planet. not even the dark web be like this

Depends on your explanation to justify that statement. If you simply say "riot should stop removing mechanics from champs and start adding them and buffing the collective roster" without any explanation (or a poor explanation) then ye, you will get downvoted.

But if you provide in-depth reason like LS did, it will make sense.

You need to make people to agree with you by providing reasonable explanation, not just say something and expect people to agree with you for no reason.

preternaturalJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Depends on your explanation to justify that statement. If you simply say "riot should stop removing mechanics from champs and start adding them and buffing the collective roster" without any explanation (or a poor explanation) then ye, you will get downvoted.

But if you provide in-depth reason like LS did, it will make sense.

You need to make people to agree with you by providing reasonable explanation, not just say something and expect people to agree with you for no reason.

he didn't provide in depth reasoning he just said all the things have been nerfed and they stay nerfed, that's literally the state of play forever. they then remove mechanics from their shiny new reworks, the champions begin to play unfun to the pilots, the designers are blamed for making boring champs, meanwhile the balance team doesn't know how to balance these mechanics at all there are better ideas coming out of independents.

i said buff tanks base hp, a far cleaner solution than fiddling with their items that are open to everyone to use and will result in problems that gets items nerfed instead of specific champions. look at lissandra and lux getting aftershock nerfed for everyone. I. also said to add mechanics to the older roster, KogMaw make his vomit ground people so that he isn't so shit scared of the mobile assassins, look at that kog is now playable without numbers being added. no rework/vgu needed either. this type of thing can be done with the entire roster to modernise them and resultantly new champs that push the game forward actually get to push the game forward instead of having to acquiesce to a state of balance they were never designed for.

taleofsonataJul 26, 20191 votes

Why listen to trash diamond 4 Hashinshin when you can listen to this guy who cares about every elo and competitive plays.

NelsieLisnenJul 26, 20191 votes

Let me start off by saying thanks for bothering to post this, it's good that LS takes the time to make the playerbase think. For me, if someone is going to absorb just one sentence from this vid, it should be "make EVERYONE powerful". Not only in terms of numbers but of kit as well. Yes, that would make some losing match-ups even more oppressive, but it would also make counter pick champions a lot more relevant and a lot less situational. Let's think for a moment. Why is the current meta so stale and rigid. It's because the choices that are safe and all-rounders are much better than less "balanced" champions. But if you started buffing and improving the kits of the obsolete end of league's roster instead of trying to bring down "power-picks", that are there because everything around them is just worse, all of a sudden champions that are more risky or sacrifice some gameplay aspect for disproportionate gains on another would be worth the risk. And it's not like they'd be miracle pills since their counters would also be buffed and relevant, creating a more complex interaction dynamic and more variable drafts.

Daddy AntsJul 26, 20191 votes

"Riot balances based on the vocal minority"

Yes they fucking do, he got that right.

Daddy AntsJul 26, 20191 votes

I also recall him mentioning

"Why nerf? just buff what can contain those champions instead"

For example.

Instead of nerfing Riven, buff things that can contain her such as Quinn, Trundle.

Instead of nerfing Vayne, buff Caitlyn, Lucian, Miss Fortune.

Instead of nerfing Aatrox, buff Gangplank and other champs who can do well into him.

TobykachuJul 26, 20191 votes

There is literally no difference between buffing weak champions and nerfing the strong ones. In the end, there will be some champions that are inherently on top, making those beneath them obsolete. Remember when Lucian was OP and the only nerf they ended up giving him was a slight nerf to his E. People were going out of their mind as to how Lucian can dominate bot lane for months and have this be the only thing they do to him - a very VERY small hit to his most useless ability. However they also buffed a LOT of the other ADC's to compete with him and suddenly they took over and now Lucian is again in a very poor state.

His other point of buffing the answers to strong champions is completely ludacrous and only works in games on a competitive level and is a direction Riot is trying to take the game in that I wholly disagree with. Riven is OP? Just pick Poppy, a champion you may not know how to play properly or enjoy playing and then Riven is significantly weaker. It never feels fun to get hard countered in champ select and feel like you lost the game before it even began.

I'm very much of the opinion that the quality of pro play is the direct inverse to the quality of solo queue. The LCS is fun and exciting to watch with a huge roster of champions being picked? Solo queue is a mess where there are so many OP champs that you can't ban all of them and every game feels like a clown fiesta. Pro play is slow and boring? Solo queue feels relatively balanced.

LS could easily balance the game at a compettiive level, but it would ruin Solo Queue as a result.

EvidenceJul 26, 20191 votes

basicly we should all quit the league and play other games,so riot then fixes its game and then we come back, but that will never happen ,cuz there are a lot of addicts in this game, who spend their money on this "Russian" rulet loot chests. we the community made them what they are,we in reality dont care about pros,they should just make another server and play on that,just for pros and their special non chaos patches. we deserve more then the riot give us,the problem is many veterans like me quited the game,so new people came in into this game and they have yet to know that this game sucks,this game as act man will never be fixed. as is corruption in every country in this world will never be fixed.

Minimac2000Jul 26, 20191 votes

I watched this earlier on YouTube and really, really disagree with everything he said. It's just plain false. The reason everything is so freaking overloaded rn especially in terms of damage is because of this "buff everything instead of hitting the 1 problem" philosophy. This is why there are currently way way too many must ban champions that if you pick an average champ into you auto lose because they got buffed to try and fix a different champ and now there are 2 broken champs instead of 1

chipndip1Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I watched this earlier on YouTube and really, really disagree with everything he said. It's just plain false. The reason everything is so freaking overloaded rn especially in terms of damage is because of this "buff everything instead of hitting the 1 problem" philosophy. This is why there are currently way way too many must ban champions that if you pick an average champ into you auto lose because they got buffed to try and fix a different champ and now there are 2 broken champs instead of 1

He's not talking about solo queue in the slightest.

Minimac2000Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He's not talking about solo queue in the slightest.

Doesn't matter, it's still part of the same game and fixing pro play in this way causes tons more problems for soloqueue which is not even remotely addressed

chipndip1Jul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't matter, it's still part of the same game and fixing pro play in this way causes tons more problems for soloqueue which is not even remotely addressed

It doesn't make what he's saying "false".

ArtumisPrimeJul 27, 20191 votes

It is irrelevant if he's talking about solo queue or pro play. The fact is that RIOT buffs champions and items far more than they nerf. This is an integral part of from where damage creep has originated.

chipndip1Jul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It is irrelevant if he's talking about solo queue or pro play. The fact is that RIOT buffs champions and items far more than they nerf. This is an integral part of from where damage creep has originated.

No, but you're not here to care about what anyone else has to say on that topic, so whatever.

ArtumisPrimeJul 28, 20191 votes

You are correct if you are unable to provide me with facts to prove me wrong.

chipndip1Jul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You are correct if you are unable to provide me with facts to prove me wrong.

It's not worth the trouble. Ciao.

ArtumisPrimeJul 29, 20191 votes

Weak, dude.

DeusVultJul 27, 20191 votes

I disagree with LS's premise. He says that Riot to often nerfs champs instead of letting champs that counter said champ emerge into the meta. IMO, pro teams and high level players only have so much time to play X amount of champs, and have the practice put in to play those champs at a high level. So they tend to play what is already established in the meta.

But how many times has a champ suddenly re-emerged into the meta with no changes simply because someone played them, did well, and suddenly many other players picked that champ up because they saw how good they are. Or a champ receives buffs for 1 patch, becomes P/B, then next patch all buffs are reverted, but they remain P/B.

Far more champs are viable at high level/pro play, but dont see play because teams dont value them at the time, and dont want to put practice on something when they already know a champ that does pretty much the same thing.

ArtumisPrimeJul 27, 20191 votes

But how many times has a champ suddenly re-emerged into the meta with no changes simply because someone played them, did well, and suddenly many other players picked that champ up because they saw how good they are.

Sylas jungle, Corki.

Or a champ receives buffs for 1 patch, becomes P/B, then next patch all buffs are reverted, but they remain P/B.

Karma. Obviously not all reverted, but small enough changes overall to warrant this as a good example IMO.

Far more champs are viable at high level/pro play, but dont see play because teams dont value them at the time, and dont want to put practice on something when they already know a champ that does pretty much the same thing.

In high elo, sure. I completely disagree with the sentiment when regarding pro play. They are slaves to the meta at that level of play. They need to eke out every extra fraction of a percentage of potential that they can out of any champion they play. This means that they can [almost] exclusively play the upper most echelon of champions. Sure, there might be some champions who are exceptional that haven't been discovered, but that has more to do with their potential not being fully realized than it has to do with overall viability.

SnowbrandJul 27, 20191 votes

But you can't keep buffing forever? It will end with Veigar one shotting you with no stacks at level 1 or stuff like that? You are gonna need to nerf champs eventually right?

preternaturalJul 27, 20191 votes

where do people come out with these claims that champions have been buffed. 10% of the roster got buffed around everything else getting nerfed and not even the buffed things are worthwhile. BUFF THE ROSTER FFS