there is no sense on ekko's ult having more ap ratio than veigar's ult

jjookkeerr·May 29, 2015·46 votes·5,179 views

i know both are tottaly different characters but still there is no sense on his ult having that ap ratio on aoe and his ult also do more than just damage.

63 Comments

SexyTaylorSwiftMay 29, 201520 votes

Sure there is. Veigar's kit is overloaded with other stuff. Oh wait, that's Ekkos.

1000angrybeesMay 29, 201514 votes

So veigar's passive and his Ult's effect of using it on another AP champ isnt good enough? Well alright.

DrCyanideMay 30, 20156 votes

Veigar needs to have 1.3 times the AP that Ekko has to deal the same amount of damage to an AD champion (and lets face it, anyone who can build AD against Veigar does so). With item 3100 item 3285 item 3089 for 416 AP on Ekko (champion spotlight recommended core), Veigar would need 540 AP to do the same damage, or basically an extra 120 AP item. If we assume Ekko can hit multiple targets, then Veigar can't match the damage output.

Personally, it feels like there's something a little off for a "skirmishing assassin" to be out bursting a burst mage, and to be doing it in an AoE too. I've never liked the idea of an "assassin" that can take on an entire team though, so maybe my concern stems from that.

1000angrybeesMay 30, 20154 votes

The last part I can totally understand the concern. I dont really think that assassins should be able to handle a whole team. Maybe 2 v 1, but not really much more than that.

(I'm also looking at you, you shit asses----> Fizz Katarina MasterYi )

DEN TEL0SMay 30, 20151 votes

AP Fizz can't really do it anymore after the nerfs. It takes skill to kill one champ with him now, unless you are ahead.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

Or Veigar could be using his ultimate on an AP champion and it will do about 150% of Ekko's ultimate.

DrCyanideMay 31, 20151 votes

If used on an AP Champion with the same amount of AP as Veigar, then Veigar's ult effectively has a 50% better AP scaling than Ekko's, but it would not be 150% of Ekko's ult, it would be 138%. And again, we're limited to a single target with Veigar, so as soon as Ekko hits two people he's dealt far more damage.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

OK, then those 2 people could see Ekko's obvious indicator and dodge it that way.

PrinceOfStormsMay 31, 20151 votes

Except Veigar also has a stacking mechanic that gives him AP when he gets CS.

DrCyanideMay 31, 20151 votes

That's limited to CS he can get with his Q or champion kills, but it can help bridge the 120 AP gap. But how much extra AP does Veigar need to have a meaningful advantage with his burst?

Heckin SupportMay 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So veigar's passive and his Ult's effect of using it on another AP champ isnt good enough? Well alright.

Thank you, people keep forgetting that veigar's ultimate will delete late game against any ap and if that doesnt the 1:1 ap on his w will help.

WuWoMay 30, 20155 votes

Veigar has a W? I pressed it once and nothing happened. Should I keep waiting for it?

Sona PingJul 10, 20151 votes

That's not the point. Veigar's ult is an offensive spell and it has no other use other than it's damage numbers. Meanwhile, Ekko's ult is a utility and _defensive _ spell. Why does a defensive spell have a higher AP ratio of damage than damaging offensive spells? Much less one of the highest AP ratios.

IcyPepperMay 29, 201510 votes

Except Veigar has a passive to get even more AP, while Ekko can only get AP from items.

Veigar has lower scaling because when late-game comes, he has enough AP to deal more damage hands down. And against Ekko, even more.

jjookkeerrMay 29, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Except Veigar has a passive to get even more AP, while Ekko can only get AP from items.

Veigar has lower scaling because when late-game comes, he has enough AP to deal more damage hands down. And against Ekko, even more.

and a shitty early/mid game and his combo has a bigger cooldown, is damage is way more unreliable before the nerfs and he is easy to kill, ekko more slippery thank zed and leblanc

MaikalMay 30, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Except Veigar has a passive to get even more AP, while Ekko can only get AP from items.

Veigar has lower scaling because when late-game comes, he has enough AP to deal more damage hands down. And against Ekko, even more.

So why should a champion that isn't veigar be compensated for not having free AP via a higher ratio, AoE, a huge heal, and the ability to dodge abilities/escape anything. Not to mention that his kit gives him a ton of damage for free (Passive and W passive, actually his ultimate is free too lol)

SaiannaMay 30, 20151 votes

Amount of AP Veigar needs is beyond hard to farm with his Q-passive.

His passive used to give him advantage, now it's "must farm with Q or lose misarably"

It's same type passive as Lissandras. It "gives free spell cast every 20s, while her base mana regen is below low"

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20152 votes

It's same type passive as Lissandras. It "gives free spell cast every 20s, while her base mana regen is the worst in the game"

ftfy

SaiannaJun 1, 20151 votes

Thanks :D

flibitydooMay 30, 20153 votes

Veigar can nuke way harder with W and R than Ekko can. Usually at the 40 minute mark, you can expect Veigars W and R to deal around 2000 damage in a single nuke (each), with R escalating to 3000+ damage when cast on an AP caster.

The most I've seen of a 6 item Ekko hit for is about 1000 with his ultimate.

jjookkeerrMay 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Veigar can nuke way harder with W and R than Ekko can. Usually at the 40 minute mark, you can expect Veigars W and R to deal around 2000 damage in a single nuke (each), with R escalating to 3000+ damage when cast on an AP caster.

The most I've seen of a 6 item Ekko hit for is about 1000 with his ultimate.

500+1,3 ap hit for more than 1000 very easy. And no dark matter dont hit 2000, the damage is 320+1 ap, would need 1680 ap to do 2000 damage on a 0 magic resist targer that is dumb enough to get stunned

Silents429May 30, 20155 votes

Oh no he cannot.

My late game Volibear can't be nuked by a fed as fuck Veigar, but a late game ekko with 3 kills can blow me up and my team mates with an ult I didn't even notice was happening.

YormaughmMay 30, 20151 votes

This. Right. Here.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

Why didn't you notice it was happening? It's the most telegraphed ability in the game. Sure, in a teamfight it's hard to see, but that's your fault for not keeping tabs on it, not Ekkos.

Silents429May 31, 20151 votes

Because in the midst of a fight with numerous abilities going off it is hard as fuck to track a small transparent ghost?

SquishyArchonMay 30, 20153 votes

"but muh 4 second delay skillshot"

-riot ekko mains

Best Darius KRMay 30, 20152 votes

Can we make Veigar's ult explode on impact, dealing AoE damage?

Tons of counter-play, but more awesome

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

Except not really much counter play.

That makes on of the highest damage single target champions in the game, and turns them into an AOE burst mage .

AOE BURST MAGE

No.

Bad.

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20151 votes

Assuming instant 1200 points of damage in AoE has much counterplay other than item 3026 .

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

item 3157 item 3102 Bard Vladimir Fizz Aatrox Braum Yasuo MasterYi Fiora

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20151 votes

Zhonya - nice reflex you got there Banshee - good luck having the shield up Bard - what? Vladimir - same as Zhonya Fizz - as above Aatrox - build-in GA Braum - what? Yasuo - what? Yi - maybe Fiora - what?

5/10 of your post is pure bullshit, 4/10 is speculative, 1/10 reinforces my post.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

Veigar's ult is a projectile, Yasuo/Braum. It is definitely not that hard to activate. that soon.

Bard's ult, Fiora same as yi, And Aatrox having a built in GA doesn't mean anything. It's still a way to dodge it.

I can also add Zac/ Anivia for good measure.

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20151 votes

Try to Windwall Ekko's ult. I dare ya.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

We aren't talking about Ekko.

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20151 votes

Last time I checked this thread was about Ekko. If you thought it was about Veigar then I suggest you make a new one.

ElJanitorFrankJun 1, 20151 votes

Uh, this is a sub-thread discussing Veigar if he were like Ekko, and why that pertains to Ekko.

It is theoretically giving Veigar Ekko's AOE and comparing it to see whether or not Ekko is balanced, which this thread is about.

I cannot believe I have to tell you that, and I have no idea why you would care in the first place.

Curling VeigarMay 30, 20152 votes

I agree w/ the ekko thing

Its ratio shouldnt be that high

excodarMay 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i know both are tottaly different characters but still there is no sense on his ult having that ap ratio on aoe and his ult also do more than just damage.

How he wrote this post gave me cancer.

ParessMay 30, 20151 votes

Well Ekko 's W is an ameliorated Veigar 's E.

jjookkeerrMay 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well 's W is an ameliorated 's E.

but he dont need his W do to damage, veigar need his E to land his combo

Vistha KaiMay 31, 20151 votes

Ekko's W doesn't do any damage in the first place.

WolfBVMay 30, 20151 votes

Well, with people saying stuff like how Veigar's ult is point and click and he stacks ap, his ult can be item 3157 item 3102 etc. while Ekko will still get a dash and a heal and aoe damage to people around the target.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

You can still Zhonya/Banshees in Ekko's ultimate.

If your teammates don't have Zhonyas/Banshees, they why the hell are they next to Ekko's obvious indicator?

Creamy SeamanMay 30, 20151 votes

its fucking hard to hit and you have to have brain damage to get hit by it

AcadiaumMay 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

its fucking hard to hit and you have to have brain damage to get hit by it

People don't understand this at all, you have 4 seconds. You see the trail.

Don't chase him, Watch out for W+Hourglass+R combo you'll be fine.

Talon, destroys him mid.

ElJanitorFrankMay 31, 20151 votes

Veigar's ultimate both scales with enemy AP, he gets free AP from his Q, and Ekko's has an indicator that updates in real-time where it will go off, while Veigar's is point-and-click.

There is the sense you were looking for.