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Coin is TOXIC for solo queue. Gonna hammer this home.

chipndip1··11 votes·759 views

Whenever I identify an issue with the game that people aren't aware of yet, I take it upon myself to get the wisdom out. Did it with Janna, so I think I can manage it now.

Prelude out of the way, most people are hating on Censer right now. They think Censer's the reason for their woes. They're wondering why Riot isn't taking huge swings at Janna and that item yet. I mean, with such a MASSIVE win rate/pick rate/ban rate, something's gotta give, right? Well, wrong. Very wrong. Your woes ain't due to Censer more than it's due to coin being ridiculous for solo queue. Like...straight TOXIC for solo queue atm. Lemme put it in perspective. Initially, things looked like this:

  • FQC line: Additional damage on-hit for spells and AAs. Quest reward grants movement speed bursts.

  • Relic line: Healing for executing minions. Quest reward grants a shield.

  • Coin line: Chunks of mana regen for sustained laning. Quest reward granted a skill point.

Now, coin's old reward sucked. It was finite, and initially it was garbo, too. Riot decided to buff its gold gen and make things look like this

  • FQC line: Additional damage on-hit for spells and AAs. Quest reward grants movement speed bursts.

  • Relic line: Healing for executing minions. Quest reward grants a shield.

  • New Coin line: Chunks of mana regen for sustained laning. Quest reward grants increased pick up range for coins, coins for kills/assists, and movement speed towards the holder.

So, lemme get this straight: We play in a LoL where one singular gold gen item was under-tuned. To fix this, we upped the amount of gold it gets on average, gave it a better quest reward, made it easier to grab gold after completing the quest, AND MADE IT GIVE +40 VALUE TO ALL KILLS AND ASSISTS AFTER COMPLETING THE QUEST? Sounds to me like this fucking item has LITERALLY THREE QUEST REWARDS ON TOP OF IMPROVING ITS INITIAL QUEST REWARD AND BUFFING ITS GOLD GEN.

Yet you guys are still begging Riot to dumpster Censer...when every Censer abuser in solo queue ALSO ABUSES COIN. Think big picture, guys. Big picture.

Edit: Well, lemme throw this in there before I regret not doing so:

The reason why coin wasn't nerfed yet is because coin's not NEARLY as bad for pro play as it is for solo queue. Pro play has a ton of roaming in it and formations to keep up with. Due to this, supports don't get to pick up random coins all over the joint, nor do they get to reliably sit still to let coins drop. This brings coin's gold gen in line a good bit assuming this is happening. In solo queue, we don't roam nearly as often. We sit our butts in a lane and we stay dedicated to the result of that effort. Coin will pump out the initial 650 faster this way, and after this, every kill or assist gives +40 gold value, your pick up range increases, AND you get your actual quest reward. Then you can "farm lanes" for coins and easily hit 2k+ gold value off of its gold gen in a match (even 3k+). It basically pays for itself and then some. This item causes a HUGE divide between pro and solo queue play. It needs major changes after worlds.

22 Comments

Ravenhale2 votes

Pretty much every mage that I used to run with STE have transitioned over to the Coin side. The mana chunks tend to make up for the AP loss.

Seriously just ran Morgana with it and felt no worse for the change.

chipndip11 votes

The item just grants too much free gold. It's insane. That gold has GOT to go.

Dirty Bastard2 votes

TBH, I never bother with SpellThiefs anymore and always go to GC. It provides far more gold imo without forcing me to trade and harass in lane. I feel I get far more mana for sustain and the passives on GC far outweigh ST and I can live without the 5 ap loss from ST.

KuroCaliber1 votes

GC?

Dirty Bastard1 votes

Gold Coin = GC

KuroCaliber1 votes

Ah, I thought it was Ancient Coin, maybe they changed the name.

Shuyin1782 votes

How do people not understand how the Coin line works within the game? When you go the coin line, you are sacrificing combat stats, and has the worst quest reward out of the 3. Phreak himself went over Coin compared to the other 2, and the only thing good about coin is its gold generation. Everything else about coin is bad as a result.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

How do people not understand how the Coin line works within the game? When you go the coin line, you are sacrificing combat stats, and has the worst quest reward out of the 3.

...THERE ARE THREE QUEST REWARDS VERSUS ONE FOR THE OTHER TWO. Did you not read the dang post!?

Increased pick up range + bonus gold/mana per kill and assist + movement speed for allies towards you. How is this NOT significant? All this on top of generating more gold than the other two items in the first place. I don't give a FLYING FUCK about what Phreak said about coin. He identifies himself as a Diamond player, same as me. Seeing how I'm a Diamond support main currently forced to abuse the FUCK out of this item, I have more room to talk about this thing than a Diamond adc player who doesn't, anyway.

Phreak himself went over Coin compared to the other 2, and the only thing good about coin is its gold generation. Everything else about coin is bad as a result.

No support that mainly takes coin (Janna, Soraka, Rakan as examples) really give a shit about combat stats. On paper, it's a negative, but in reality, it's a net neutral...even a net gain since Soraka and Rakan love HP Regen (Rakan's heal is unreliable/Soraka kills herself per W).

Shuyin1782 votes

movement speed for allies towards you. How is this NOT significant?

Because the champions that are suppose to benefit the most from this item (Janna, Soraka, Sona, etc etc) are BEHIND you or NEXT to you, almost never in front of you, good luck using that movement speed when you're in front of them not actually getting it.

No support that mainly takes coin (Janna, Soraka, Rakan as examples) really give a shit about combat stats. On paper, it's a negative, but in reality, it's a net neutral

This is false because HP regen can't keep you permanently healthy, in addition it's next to worthless in a fight. Flat HP from Targon's is better than HP regen on Coin when it comes to a fight. AP from Spellthief's is better than HP regen on Coin when it comes to a fight. The item is not worth it if the stat you are arguing it's used for is not even a good one to begin with. The only reason Coin is being used is because of its gold generation and mana regeneration, not the next to unnoticeable HP regen.

I don't give a FLYING FUCK about what Phreak said about coin. He identifies himself as a Diamond player, same as me. Seeing how I'm a Diamond support main currently forced to abuse the FUCK out of this item, I have more room to talk about this thing than a Diamond adc player who doesn't, anyway.

Diamond and higher tier ADCs understand supports just as well as Supports do, just like Supports are able to understand ADCs just as well as ADCs do. It's part of the lane to know both sides, so saying he knows nothing is ignorance at its finest on your end. He's one of the people that actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to bot lane when he talks about it. He's not a Riot employee because of his puns, it's because he knows the game and how it's played. You should watch his patch notes once in awhile on youtube. Maybe you'll learn something, idk.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Because the champions that are suppose to benefit the most from this item (Janna, Soraka, Sona, etc etc) are BEHIND you or NEXT to you, almost never in front of you, good luck using that movement speed when you're in front of them not actually getting it.

You cut out the other two "after 650" bonuses coin gets from your response, then say something incredibly stupid anyway.

If I'm a defensive champion, and I'm behind you, you wanna know how this helps? It helps you dodge attacks. It helps you fall back from enemy engages and dives. If I'm smart enough to just move in front of you real quick, I can even peddle you and any other ally that's behind me from one objective to another. In comparison, the other two rewards don't even benefit allies more than it benefits yourself...as a support. I'm not saying the other two quest rewards are bad. I'm saying this one isn't so bad that it needs two more free quest rewards tacked onto it. Unlike the other two items, it pays for itself and then some, just for standing in a lane picking up free gold and mana all game. Then we wonder "GEE WHY IS JANNA AT A 56% WIN RATE AFTER NERFING HER AND CENSER? HMMMMMMM...". I swear sometimes I get caught up in the Lucifer Effect on these boards.

This is false because HP regen can't keep you permanently healthy,

Wtf? Neither can armor, but we still build armor.

in addition it's next to worthless in a fight. Flat HP from Targon's is better than HP regen on Coin when it comes to a fight. AP from Spellthief's is better than HP regen on Coin when it comes to a fight.

Coin users don't honestly care about any of this. Never have and never will. It'd be NICE to have, but they don't care. You don't see Janna fiending for ap. You don't see Soraka fiending for HP (she actually hates HP). That's why the HP regen makes for a solid filler stat. After fights, you can stay on the map a bit better in case you need to ward around or head to another objective/altercation. On paper, it's a negative, but in practice, it doesn't hurt most coin users one way or the other.

The item is not worth it if the stat you are arguing it's used for is not even a good one to begin with. The only reason Coin is being used is because of its gold generation and mana regeneration, not the next to unnoticeable HP regen.

So you just suck at reading comprehension is what I'm getting from this reply so far, between saying I said shit that I didn't say to lopping off parts of my sentences and responding to only one third of a point I made.

Diamond and higher tier ADCs understand supports just as well as Supports do

...I'm literally need words right now. I'm at a massive loss for words.

just like Supports are able to understand ADCs just as well as ADCs do

Still need those words.

It's part of the lane to know both sides, so saying he knows nothing is ignorance at its finest on your end. He's one of the people that actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to bot lane when he talks about it. He's not a Riot employee because of his puns, it's because he knows the game and how it's played. You should watch his patch notes once in awhile on youtube. Maybe you'll learn something, idk.

Maybe you should actually learn a thing or two about the game in your own right before spewing a hot load of whatever the hell this was "because Phreak said so". He's not even a support player and you're tossing one that is his elo range out because "it's a Rioter"? Actually laughable.

Salson2 votes

So they decide to buff FQC instead of nerfing Coin.

I mean come on, Coin line is the least interactive and easiest to use. It's supposed to be the weakest.

chipndip12 votes

The buff to FQC isn't even enough to call it a buff.

Coin's the cheapest item to full build its sightstone variant for, generates the most gold, and it's the easiest/least interactive to get gold on. It ultimately leads to a faster full build, but you're playing a role where the other items don't get the gold to match your build progress unless the game gets to like 50 minutes+. Where's the weaknesses?

Salson1 votes

Where's the weaknesses?

Lack of roaming potencial.

The main problem here is that Coin is made to be just as rewarding as successfull roams which resulted in kills. Your roam failed, though luck, you now loose to a guy who didn't do anything.

chipndip11 votes

You can just not do anything and auto-win with coin, though.

Also, coin gens FASTER than the other items. Assuming you roam, but fail, you can still just gen the gold back over time. TO BOOT, a coin or two can still drop in mid lane, anyway.

It takes too much to try to cook up "downsides" to this item.

Salson1 votes

It takes too much to try to cook up "downsides" to this item.

Reminds me of the Nasus rework, where they just slapped insane number on an outdated kit...and he still sucks.

Coin needs a rework, one that doesn't reward doing nothing. Some nerfs in the meantime would be nice though, as seeing it on the god damn Bard is bafflung.

Dirty Bastard1 votes

Gold coin has good synergy on Bard. Roam by nature, land assists and benefit greatly.

chipndip11 votes

After the initial 650, anyway, but yeah, at that point, you just get free gold constantly for doing just about anything. I don't understand why it's so hard to turn the hatred of the boards in the right direction.

Mens Hair Club1 votes

supports are toxic for soloQ

chipndip11 votes

Appreciate the bump, my guy.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Mens Hair Club1 votes

:thumbsup:

Mens Hair Club1 votes

hehe your turn x)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fQ6Arys4-fan-made-rework-for-volibear leave this here for u

Stacona1 votes

The problem with the gold items is that supports are only made up of mages and tanks, so we only need spell thief and relic shield gold lines. Coin line just needs to be removed.

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