@Zenon, Azir Team: Why does Azir's ult differ from Renekton and Nasus?

Sir ArmaMalum·Sep 26, 2014·3 votes·9,846 views

######Missed the Q+A sorry!

As the third of three 'Ascended' Champions, was there ever any thoughts about relating Azir's kit closely to Nasus and Renekton? If so, why were those thoughts shelved in favor of his own completely unique style?

Most of all, it's the question of his ult. A sand based , DoT AoE ultimate is a similarity between Nasus and Renekton and one of my favorite reflections of character to gameplay in League. I was actually really surprised when Azir came out with an ult that was nothing like that.

26 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 27, 20148 votes

Some of the early ultimates we looked out for Azir were based off the 'Get big and AOE theme' that Nasus and Renekton both share - we also thought the thematic link would be really cool. We eventually concluded, after trying a few (some of which involved an Ascension ritual to trigger, some of which were instant on button press) that that wouldn't be a good direction for the Azir we wanted to make. We were aiming for an emperor who commanded, rather than someone who was focused on getting into the middle of the fight. Additionally the versions of giant sandstorm AOE that we felt had the most potential ended up being very reminiscent of Fiddle and Kennen's ults (cool skills, but we wanted to do something different with Azir, both to give him a distinct identity and to preserve Fiddle and Kennen's).

WickedKingSep 27, 20141 votes

He could've just build a sand castle with the other abilities. (My first thought for Azir's abilities)

Create a sandbox from one of his abilities (other spells inside and/or casting spells while being on sandbox gets empowered and provided cool effects)

Zyra cases was to put an object while other spells gives object a life to perform. Creating a sandbox would be the signature ability to perform, but that would probably fit for a next Sand champion i guess (which is never i guess).

A typical kit for Sandbox champ:

Q (normal), slams the ground. AOE Q (sandbox), digging underground, snaring targets who he crosses with.

W, The Sand Box

E (ground), roars the targets, knocking them back. Cone E (sandbox), the edge of the sandbox becomes a wall for the roar, while the allies gain movement speed crossing the wall

R (ground) sandstorm around him R (sandbox) sandbox follows him as he becomes the center of it...

TortferngatrSep 27, 20141 votes

Hmm. About "giant sandstorm AoEs."

If we ever revisit Shurima with another champion (kind of like Thresh relative to the Shadow Isles event and Braum relative to the Freljord event)...could we consider a giant sandstorm AoE that slowly moves forward, temporarily negating terrain in the area it passes over? Giant sandstorms are cool.

Obviously the sandstorm wouldn't be attached to the champion themselves, of course.

RiotMeddlerSep 27, 20146 votes

Yeah, there are definitely some ways you could do sandstorm as a theme in game that would add something new. Trying to do so on a champion centered effect on the other hand's a lot harder. We don't have any plans for one at present but I could imagine us doing another sand themed champion someday, provided he/she/it was sufficiently different from Azir. Some form of desert dwelling creature with sand manipulation powers or a sand wraith/elemental perhaps, almost certainly in a different role than mage.

TortferngatrSep 27, 20141 votes

Hmm. If Azir represents the power of sand to create, perhaps such a sand wraith could embody the power of sand to destroy?

(for example, someone that spreads desert sands with their abilities, slowly damaging enemies and granting bonuses to your abilities (e.g. a skillshot desert wind that can only travel a set total distance on normal terrain, but can travel an effectively infinite distance on existing sand))

On a side note, we also lack a female Ascended....

Naut Today SirSep 27, 20141 votes

perhaps such a sand wraith could embody the power of sand to destroy?

Call him Sahara.

Have his ult do a crescent shaped sandstorm that does immediate damage and slows by spreading sand.

JingerbeardmanSep 28, 20141 votes

this is true... they are all male atm

AbodyHUN666Sep 27, 20141 votes

What about some kind of storm around the champion negating the enemy team's vision on the inside? Like a moving graves E?

RiotMeddlerSep 27, 20144 votes

That could work really nicely on a tank, offering a different sort of proximity threat that isn't just raw damage or standard CC. Main problem you'd then want to solve, which happens with vision negation effects, is that they're somewhat hard to appreciate for the caster since you're not observing their impact directly. UI changes and good visual effects could help a lot there though.

exec3Sep 27, 20142 votes

What about a ring around enemies indicating what vision they do have that you and your allies can see?

DantilqSep 27, 20141 votes

What about a support that mainly work with vision, and vision negation, using sand! Then you add some slows for thematic effect, maybe even a global slow as ulti?!

JingerbeardmanSep 28, 20142 votes

a good visual is really all you would need for something like that. The status effect is rather obvious and a player would know that if someone is within the area of effect that they wont see out of it.

LifeSmashSep 28, 20141 votes

If you really wanted the "get big and AOE" theme, you could have Azir do it to his soldiers instead of doing it to himself. It would be something like like "makes his soldiers grow in size and generates a sandstorm around them, increasing their auto range and doing damage and a slow in an AOE" (and maybe restoring W charges or making the soldiers not expire for a while, IDK how much power one can put into an ult like that)

Not that I think his ult should be changed. Was just a thought.

CuixSep 27, 20141 votes

This reply is particularly encouraging, to me. I was disappointed when I read that Azir was the final one-and-only sand mage of League, since his fantasy is very much not tied up in sand (imo). That a true sand bender might still be considered, even if not as a mage, is quite nice.

AbodyHUN666Sep 29, 20141 votes

I think the problem was that this was the most unique sand themed kit they could come up with. however I would like to see some Garra level terraforming

AesheronSep 29, 20141 votes

What if it didn't directly affect him, so much as his soldiers? Increase the resupply on soldiers while it's active, reduce q cooldown if they land within the storm, etc?

Maester SeymourOct 2, 20141 votes

Hey Meddler,

Weird that you mentioned this, I've had an idea for an amazing ultimate for such a champ for a while. I'll drop it here cos it's not a full champ suggestion just the ultimate, maybe it's worth considering a version of this (?)

A Sandstorm ultimate that covers a large area of the map in a (light) sandstorm effect that does (light) DoT damage, but here's the interesting mechanic:

When it's cast, the caster chooses the direction the sandstorm will blow towards for its entire duration, and the walls and mountains of Summoner's Rift shield whoever is sitting on the other side that the sandstorm blows. In essence the sandstorm only hits you if you're "out in the open".

So for example, I call the Sandstorm to blow from east to west, so whoever is sitting on the west side of a wall does not get hit at all, because the wall shields them from the sandstorm.

It would probably have to not hit people who are in base as well, so as not to make it overpowered, but I reckon it might be fun

Sir ArmaMalumSep 27, 20142 votes

Thought as much, makes sense. Thank you for the reply!

If convenient, could you entertain a tangential question? Has Azir been the most difficult champion to implement to date? He has so many new mechanics to his kit comparatively to anyone else. If not Azir, who in your opinion has been the biggest challenge to get out to live thus far?

RiotMeddlerSep 27, 20144 votes

Not sure if he's the most difficult, he's right up there though. A lot of engineering work went into him (big thanks to our champion team engineers!) since his passive, soldiers replacing his auto attacks and his ult all have functionality we didn't previously have in game. On the design side his scripts (how his abilities function, created with our internal tools rather than programmed directly) are also very complex.

Most difficult to implement title probably goes to Zac at a guess. Not so much for his kit (which did have a bit of tech for the E but nothing enormous) but on the art side. Lot of animation and visual effects tech was developed for him (most of which has also been of great use on other champions since - much easier to justify that sort of work if it'll be reusable).

Sir ArmaMalumSep 27, 20142 votes

Awesome, thanks for humoring my curious side, I appreciate it! ^_^

SunfieldSep 26, 20142 votes

This ult would make absolutely no sense on Azir

Sir ArmaMalumSep 26, 20145 votes

If it was directly copy paste high damage, close range, made-for-bruisers, I agree. But have some imagination!

Imagine an incredibly large range, low damage aoe around Azir that slowed. Or an ultimate that turns his soldiers into mini sandstorms (imagine tiny viktor ults) that deal aoe damage. or even simply a turtle formation (instead of frontline phalanx) that borders around Azir.

I'm not saying the current one is bad or needs replacing in any way, I was just a bit jarred by how different his was from his fellow Ascended champs.

JingerbeardmanSep 28, 20141 votes

you forget that xerath is now also ascended, even though his ascended form is very different... his ult is in no way similar to renekton or nasus and with that in mind there is no limit to what azir should be. I will give you that he is of the so called animal family ascended... but thats beside the point :P

chaetopterusSep 26, 20142 votes

You forgot Xerath. He ascended too and even though his ult changes him into something like an ascended mode he isn't like Nasus or Renekton at all. Azir is supposed to make you feel as mighty as an emperor, so why do the work yourself? Make your soldiers do something to ult.

Sir ArmaMalumSep 26, 20143 votes

That's true, but he also botched/amplified/otherwise interfered with his own ascension iirc so I'm personally okay with him being completely different. Although, the lockdown could be considered a size increase and power spike like Renek and Nas.....-shrug-

Making the soldiers have the ult effect makes perfect sense and would work with his kit. Of course, I'm not looking to replace the current ult, just find out the reasoning (if any) to disconnect his kit from the other normally Ascended characters.

prime104Sep 26, 20141 votes

Maybe it is because the DoT AoE you talk about is available in the form of his soldiers? Riot has to consider the kit from a game play point of view as well. Consider it like this, when used well, his ulti allows him to attack with impunity thus acting as both a defensive move (similar to Nasus and Renekton) and effectively increasing his damage output as well. Thematically I would say that Azir's "Ascension Powers" so to speak went into empowering what was unique to him i.e. his power as an emperor. Nasus has his powers focused towards time and death while Renekton has his focused on butchering (though maybe it wasn't so before Xerath drove him mad...).