PSA that 'Broken' and "Too Strong" are not the same thing

The Sword Saint · 2015-08-29T19:13:34.991Z

This essay is listed in my "Master List of Essay Threads" under the title "On To Be Broken" A champ that's too strong just needs some numbers tuned back. A champ that's actually broken can be strong or weak at the moment, but that's not the point. Being broken means that the way their abilities work prevent them from being allowed to be strong by Riot since they warp the game in an unreasonable or unhealthy way that force players to play in an extremely unsatisfying or counter intuitive way, or which present false decisions to players. Poppy is broken because of her ultimate and the fact that her passive actively discourages you from trying to finish her off the lower her health gets. She is not allowed to be strong because she makes the game unfun and her existence prevents others from making meaningful decisions. Unless the champ you're talking about is fundamentally flawed in ways that warp the entire game in an unhealthy way, they aren't broken.

AlphadefAug 29, 201513 votes

Yorick. I'd possibly argue some others as well. Maybe some of the stealth champs. Personally I consider kalista's passive broken.

ButthurtAug 30, 20151 votes

Yorick is honestly not broken, Riot just wants to think so. There are champions that do what he does, but even better and actually have a good late game too.

Champs like Gnar, Vlad and Lulu come to mind. The new GP and Darius also fill his role pretty well, as well.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 30, 20151 votes

Only reason he is broken is cuz they gave him meaninglessly weak abilities on low cooldowns with low mana costs. They practically beg him to build tear and spam all day.

If his abilities were on a longer, more meaningful cd and actually had visible impact he'd be much more playable and play-against-able.

The Sword SaintAug 30, 20152 votes

They would also need to make his ghouls easily auto attackable, as it is you need to attack move just to hit them at all or use a skillshot.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 31, 20151 votes

Or have Ghouls be untargetable/unkillable and balanced around that factor ie. not as strong as they currently are that way they are far less binary in their effectiveness. Currently an untouched Ghoul that is allowed to freely attack the enemy laner will do tons of damage. But if there is strong AoE presence then the Ghouls have no effect at all.

Having Ghouls be used in more unique ways than quickly chase enemy and auto them would probably make the character more interesting. A few ideas would be like having the Q ghoul act more as a target reveal by chasing the target at extreme speeds but dealing low damage, perhaps even leaving a trail for Yorick. W spawning a hulking ghoul that slowly trudges toward the target, inflicting a massive slow on its attacks if it reaches its target. E could be a stationary sentry that saps the life from enemies in an area around it.

Basically the idea is to have ghouls be more than just the same copy paste run towards them and auto ghoul while also providing reasoning behind having a longer cooldown on the spells that spawn them.

B1naryB0tAug 29, 201518 votes

I'd make a case for fizz. His kit is toxic to play against.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 29, 201528 votes

I'd say Fizz is more toxic than broken. Toxic to me means that they are just frustrating as hell to play against. Broken is there is something about one ability or their entire kit that gives them so much strength it can't be resolved with numbers. If Fizz had a reasonable cool down on his e it may still be annoying but when its down maybe you can punish that.

You know typing this makes me think he's toxic and broken....

Beacon 0F LightAug 30, 20156 votes

I'd argue that Fizz's E is broken and can't be balanced with just numbers, but you make a good point about the toxic thing.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 30, 20151 votes

It has way too much on it right now, to the point that it is broken, totally see that. It's his wave clear, max first ability (AP fizz), gap closer, escape, general survivability, AOE nuke etc. I think the E could be balanced if it got reworked into a pure utility ability, this could wreck Fizz though because it is his only wave clear. So ya, kind of broken.

PS: I was typing out another reply but the same thing happened as my last post...this fish man

SquidblimpAug 31, 20151 votes

I also think Fizz is too strong, but his other abilities are relatively weak compared to his E. His Q is basically a gapcloser that barely does anything more than an auto attack. His W does a lot of damage, but he has to be in melee range to do it, and that's all it is, damage. His E has most of his power, and that means that he has to decide whether he uses it for damage, to dodge something, or for a gapcloser, or an escape. A good Fizz will use his E to do 2 or 3 of those things at the same time.

His ult is pretty strong too, but it can sometimes be hard to land.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 31, 20151 votes

Other champions have been plagued with balance issues by having one ability having way too much power on it. I'm not saying take things of the E and he will be fine, just that he would be in a more balancable state.

I also find his Q to actually be deceptively strong at times. Good fizzes have juked me hard with it. Overall it is somewhat bland. But I do like abilities that have these kinds of subtle uses/power.

ElegantDogeAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd make a case for fizz. His kit is toxic to play against.

Agree.I don't find him "too strong" ,just frustrating to play against.

Tannhäuser GateAug 29, 20152 votes

Urgot is broken as he is too binary, land E>>>QQQQ or dont and be useless.

Vlad too, maybe Yorick

Ariel the CruelAug 30, 20158 votes

Urgot is broken as he is too binary, land E>>>QQQQ or dont and be useless.

Cassiopeia That must be horrible. I can't even imagine.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 31, 20151 votes

Why have a unique poisin mage when we can have a machine gun mage. Sounds much more unique to me. Besides, Brand is already the DoT mage lol.

~ Stashu

Ariel the CruelAug 31, 20151 votes

Why have a unique poisin mage when we can have a machine gun mage.

I distinctly remember Riot stating a while back they Ryze's niche was supposed to be "a sort of, Magical machine gun".

KeevalroyAug 30, 20156 votes

Akali Annie Darius Ekko Fiora Fizz Kalista Kassadin LeeSin Nidalee Poppy Rengar Thresh Yasuo Yorick

A Miss FortuneAug 30, 20151 votes

I think Ekko, Thresh, and Lee Sin are just overloaded and Yasuo, Fizz, and Kalista are just overpowered. Arguably broken though.

HAIL WHYDRAAug 30, 20153 votes

>yauso >overpowered >mfw

A Miss FortuneAug 30, 20152 votes

Or he's overloaded. Regardless he isn't healthy as a champion who's kit negates his very few weaknesses. You don't even have to play him perfectly to realize that his weaknesses are primarily no range and extremely squishy, but with a wall that blocks all projectiles, a low cooldown periodic shield, and infinite dashes on pretty much no cooldown that do damage themselves, his weaknesses aren't too obvious.

HAIL WHYDRAAug 30, 20153 votes

with a wall that blocks all projectiles

On a 20 second cooldown rank 1

a low cooldown periodic sheild

...that takes a long time to regen back up

infinite dashes

Infinite Hypothetical dashes* ftfy without minions, he has little to no mobility besides running away

The0neBarWarriorAug 30, 20151 votes

Meh, I see him being unfun to play against, and overpowered if ahead, but then again so are a lot of champs; I'd much rather face a fed yasuo who we can focus slow/stun and then instantly delete rather than say a fed Irelia who can walk into the middle of a 3v1 and just proceed to level my team.

Diananmen SquareAug 30, 20155 votes

Yorick , Tryndamere and Kassadin can be considered broken.

HAIL WHYDRAAug 31, 20151 votes

Imo, a champion becomes broken when you can reduce the damage on their abilities to 0 and they would still get played. ( Thresh Thresh Thresh ) Edit: nvm thats overloaded. It sucks how one of these is never played, one gets kited to death in a competent team, and one nerfed so he can only rifthop Kassadin item 3070

A Miss FortuneAug 30, 20155 votes

Mordekaiser is extremely broken in my opinion. He can go 20-0 and still die just because he got kited, and he can go 0-20 but still literally one-shot you or anybody else on your team. There's only one option, to kite him or die, which really isn't an option since a lot of the game is melee. His entire balance is revolved around one ability which I believe has the highest ratios in the game combined? I'm pretty sure at least the AD ratio is the highest.

Tryndamere is another good example of being broken. He can feed all he wants, but still end up 1v1'ing almost anybody. He is a high damage output but his ultimate makes him unable to die. On top of that he has a lot of disengaging abilities. His entire balance is revolved around building a ton of damage, and becoming immortal for a period of time with literally nothing the enemy can do besides wait out the ult. The rest of his kit is pretty garbage.

Kassadin this one is extremely arguably but with his identity and most of his gameplay revolving around him spamming blinks that do AoE damage on a low cooldown, he won't ever be healthy/balanced since he'll either be mediocre and outclassed in almost every case like he is right now, or he'll be overbearing and 100% pick or ban like before. Kind of arguable if he is broken though since the rest of his kit is fine, just not his ultimate.

So yeah, Poppy isn't the only broken champion.

DengedenAug 30, 20151 votes

Kassadin are you sure about him? It might be possible because he lacks hard CC. However he can still use his ult to dodge/kite around with his E and/or the occasional item 3025 .

Diananmen SquareAug 31, 20151 votes

Kassadin is broken because he is almost impossible to balance.

He is either too strong or too weak, and needs another rework.

DengedenAug 31, 20151 votes

... you didn't back that up with anything. Using the same "too strong or too weak" logic, Cass is broken too.

While it's possible that champion with minimal waveclear is necessarily broken, I'm still a little hesitant. Kassadin has sooo many options once he hits 6.

Diananmen SquareAug 31, 20151 votes

He was reworked for a reason, after all.

And even after that, he still got gutted.

His mobility can't be mixed with good damage or he will become overpowered.

DengedenAug 31, 20151 votes

Well ... yes but damage isn't the only thing he brings to the table. He has 2 ways to reduce magic damage and while he may not be able to kill you, you'll have a hard time killing him too.

PSA that 'Broken' and "Too Strong" are not the same thing

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