PSA: Champion in the Support position =/= Support Champion

Done25·Nov 15, 2016·6 votes·488 views

Please note that just because Brand goes bottom with an ADC that does not mean he is a Support Champion. Support kits primarily focus on bringing utility to their team, not damage. Sona's W heals and shields while her E is an AoE speed boost for her team. Lux's Q+E provide heavy on demand multitarget CC while her W is an AoE shield. Braum's passive/Q provide CC for your team to exploit while his W and E keep your team alive.

Meanwhle, Brand provides: ONE hard to land CC, no sustain, and no utility. All he brings is damage. He's a carry mage who just so happens to be good at proccing Tribute passives and poking enemy laners with an ult that loves it when two champions stand next to each other. Like say, an ADC and their Support.

15 Comments

ÇhåryzårdNov 15, 20165 votes

Glad you included Lux in this, makes me feel better about my intentions to learn Lux support lol

theArtifactsNov 15, 20163 votes

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Glad you included Lux in this, makes me feel better about my intentions to learn Lux support lol

Lux can also provide multi target healing with Chalice that is boosted with the correct keystone. She can be quite a good support. :) Great to learn!

Done25Nov 15, 20162 votes

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Lux can also provide multi target healing with Chalice that is boosted with the correct keystone. She can be quite a good support. :) Great to learn!

Lux works very well with Chalice as an offensive Support. (As do Morgana, Orianna, and Zillian.)

Done25Nov 15, 20161 votes

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Glad you included Lux in this, makes me feel better about my intentions to learn Lux support lol

Do it. Her lane poke is terrifying when she doesn't have to spend mana on wave clear and she has one of the best AoE slows in the game along with very high base damage on her passive+R. At lv 6 her Passive+R combo does something like 360+95% AP?

VoidStaresBackNov 15, 20163 votes

Lux is definitely a good support, and I cringe when I see people say "lol Lux support is a troll pick". The problem is some lux supports (and other mages played as supports) are mid laners who got autofilled and start doran's ring while stealing CS and generally not supporting, so people have a bad taste in their mouths from it.

Done25Nov 15, 20162 votes

Why would someone down vote this topic? It's made of 100% truths. Q_Q

(I bet they play Brand lol.)

CrazyBear1987Nov 15, 20162 votes

My favorite is support Sion

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Swiftstrike4Nov 15, 20161 votes

Supports just need to be able to have one form of hard CC, OK mana management, and some durability. Preferably some type of sustain in lane too.

I do play support, but I also play Leona Sona Soraka Morgana and some Lulu and Janna .

Brand was only played as a support because of his ultimate and his stun was at one point really long (it isn't anymore). He also tends to build relatively tanky compare to other supports that are mages.

He is a zoner mostly with really high damage, without much ability power needed. I take him down there situationally. Usually if I lack confidence in my ADC or if the enemy has an assassin (brand can survive most assassination attempts over say Sona ). I also take him down there if we lack much AP as a team.

If I have a lot of confidence in my ADC I tend to avoid playing brand, because I don't need too.

He is superior to Lux support because her mana management is poor and she can easily be killed. She has a harder time poking people down without expending a lot of mana. Brand doesn't if he lands his combos. His ultimate is really what makes him great down there along with his autos.

Done25Nov 15, 20162 votes

Brand can be played in the support position, but he himself is not a real Support champion. TBH I don't consider Leona to be a real Support either. Her passive has no AP scaling abd barely scales with levels. Lux's passive is better in almost every way after a dozen or so levels. If they gave Leona a different/better passive, one she could use on her own, she would work just fine in top/jungle.

Here's a quick test that 99% of all Supports, excluding Teemo and Zyra who make up for it with free wards, can pass.

Your ADC is hurt and trying to recall. The enemy Ezreal slams his R button and is about to erase them. What do you do? Morgana: Spell Shield Lux: Bubble Barrier Braum: Stand Behind+Shield Soraka: Heal Sona: Heal+Shield Lulu: Shield+HP boost Janna: Shield+Heal Tahm: Shield (by eating) Taric: Heal, Shield, Invulnerability Etc.

What can Brand do? Well, I guess he can wave clear untill his ADC returns from being dead?

Swiftstrike4Nov 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Brand can be played in the support position, but he himself is not a real Support champion. TBH I don't consider Leona to be a real Support either. Her passive has no AP scaling abd barely scales with levels. Lux's passive is better in almost every way after a dozen or so levels. If they gave Leona a different/better passive, one she could use on her own, she would work just fine in top/jungle.

Here's a quick test that 99% of all Supports, excluding Teemo and Zyra who make up for it with free wards, can pass.

Your ADC is hurt and trying to recall. The enemy Ezreal slams his R button and is about to erase them. What do you do? Morgana: Spell Shield Lux: Bubble Barrier Braum: Stand Behind+Shield Soraka: Heal Sona: Heal+Shield Lulu: Shield+HP boost Janna: Shield+Heal Tahm: Shield (by eating) Taric: Heal, Shield, Invulnerability Etc.

What can Brand do? Well, I guess he can wave clear untill his ADC returns from being dead?

Other champions that are supports can't really do anything either though, such as Blitz and Nautilus. Alistar can provide a weak heal but the adc is still dead.

I don't think it really matters if a champion is effective at the position because the meta shifts a lot. Some champions were specifically designed as a support or enabler and others find their niche at the position because they are found to be effective at the position.

Brand is the latter.

Done25Nov 15, 20161 votes

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Other champions that are supports can't really do anything either though, such as Blitz and Nautilus. Alistar can provide a weak heal but the adc is still dead.

I don't think it really matters if a champion is effective at the position because the meta shifts a lot. Some champions were specifically designed as a support or enabler and others find their niche at the position because they are found to be effective at the position.

Brand is the latter.

Blitz is a Fighter/Tank and Nautilus is pure Tank. Alistar is primarily Tank with a liiiittle bit of Support via his passive healing. Which I think they could buff with an AP ratio and by removing the CD.

Remember, don't confuse "Works well with a teammate." with "Works primarily with a team.". There's a difference to Lucian jumping in on a Blitz grab, and Sona keeping her team alive by pumping out shields.

Blitz can fight just fine on his own, but Sona revolves primarily around amping her team via her auras.

Side note: I kind of wish they would tweak Blitz into being a proper tank. Give his E an AP ratio and increase the AP ratio on his passive Bolts to 60%. Imagine getting punched by a 300 AP Blitz who has Lichbane! Hell, while I'm thinking about it: Passive: Same Q: Reduce AP ratio to 60% to make him less of a one trick pony. W: Same E: Blitzcrank charges his fist with electricity and punches an enemy, dealing 200% AD + 45% AP damage and stunning them for 1 second. R (passive): Blitzcrank strikes up to 1/2/3 enemies with a lightning bolt every 3 seconds for 100/150/200(+40% AP) magic damage. Prioritizes enemy champions. (Stops his single target from being obscene, but makes him more of a threat in team fights.) R (Active): Same

Swiftstrike4Nov 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Blitz is a Fighter/Tank and Nautilus is pure Tank. Alistar is primarily Tank with a liiiittle bit of Support via his passive healing. Which I think they could buff with an AP ratio and by removing the CD.

Remember, don't confuse "Works well with a teammate." with "Works primarily with a team.". There's a difference to Lucian jumping in on a Blitz grab, and Sona keeping her team alive by pumping out shields.

Blitz can fight just fine on his own, but Sona revolves primarily around amping her team via her auras.

Side note: I kind of wish they would tweak Blitz into being a proper tank. Give his E an AP ratio and increase the AP ratio on his passive Bolts to 60%. Imagine getting punched by a 300 AP Blitz who has Lichbane!

The point is that one anecdote does not lead to an encompassing definition that a champion is not a "support" because they cannot heal or shield someone. The support position has changed a lot and different champions have cycled in and out of the position, but right now it seems pretty static.

I have only played league for about half of season 5 and season 6, but a lot of my friends that played it in earlier seasons have said that positions for champions have "hardened" more over time. Riot now designs champions more around the position. When champions step outside of their normal position then there is usually some type of balance issue.

Some of the initial designs of champions have evolved into something else completely through play and itemization changes.

From season 5 to season 6 outside of tank Ekko and jungle Malzahar I haven't see too many champions play out side of the role they traditionally play. The rework of Graves made him more of a jungler than an ADC.

I suppose support Shen is gone, and there a few other champions than can only play one or two roles. I don't see many Nautilus top or jungle as much, but I can't think of too many outliers from the season when a champion just moved to a new role.

Done25Nov 15, 20161 votes

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The point is that one anecdote does not lead to an encompassing definition that a champion is not a "support" because they cannot heal or shield someone. The support position has changed a lot and different champions have cycled in and out of the position, but right now it seems pretty static.

I'm going to counter with: In order to be classified as a "Support" a Champions needs a kit that in some way directly "supports" their team. No, killing the enemy or JUST CCing them isn't enough. Otherwise Yi and Amumu would be classified as "Supports".

But don't get me wrong! Just because Brand isn't a Support, does NOT mean he can't go bottom with an ADC and keep them safe. Position on map =/= Role on team. Just because you go Mid doesn't mean you have to play a Mage. Assassins and (some) Marksmen do equally well in that lane depending on the match up. Same for Top and Jungle.

Side note: Shen and Nautalis were never real "Supports". They're beefy tanks with good CC that lack damage. So what do you do? Pair them with the frail, but high in DPS, Marksman. Oh, I suppose Shen had the ally healing from his old Q. Eh, it was "okay" given that is was a manaless skill. Right up until they destroyed it for being too good.

Swiftstrike4Nov 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to counter with: In order to be classified as a "Support" a Champions needs a kit that in some way directly "supports" their team. No, killing the enemy or JUST CCing them isn't enough. Otherwise Yi and Amumu would be classified as "Supports".

But don't get me wrong! Just because Brand isn't a Support, does NOT mean he can't go bottom with an ADC and keep them safe. Position on map =/= Role on team. Just because you go Mid doesn't mean you have to play a Mage. Assassins and (some) Marksmen do equally well in that lane depending on the match up. Same for Top and Jungle.

Side note: Shen and Nautalis were never real "Supports". They're beefy tanks with good CC that lack damage. So what do you do? Pair them with the frail, but high in DPS, Marksman. Oh, I suppose Shen had the ally healing from his old Q. Eh, it was "okay" given that is was a manaless skill. Right up until they destroyed it for being too good.

CCing an opponent is supporting the team though, as is providing any type of engage. I think your opinion and definition of what a support is, is not an accurate reflection of what the community accepts as a support.

Well old shen had A LOT of damage early (his passive), pretty OK sustain, a shield, a good hard CC, and then an ultimate to save the ADC if they were out of position which fits into your paradigm of a support.

He can't really play the position anymore because his passive is different, he lost his heal and poke, and he lost his shield activate making it harder to harass. His base stats also were nerfed repeatedly.

I use to play him as a support sometimes if I couldn't get top. Supports just need OK sustain, good mana management, and some type of CC or enabler for the team. Good base stats and OK scaling is also useful.

I also do not view the position as an ADC babysitter either (maybe you do). I have played support enough to recognize my job is to mostly make sure the opposing ADC does NOT get strong in laning phase, provide vision and objective control, and to try to best enable our carry.

If the carry comes from the mid lane or the top lane or the jungle, that is the player I should help the most.

If my ADC is not doing that well or is doing poorly, I don't really help them. They are probably a liability to me and the team. I should always be focusing my efforts on helping the carry for our team, whichever that is on the team.

I have learned enough times that helping bad players usually does not equate to a win, nor does helping the weakest player on the team. If my ADC is doing really poorly, I stay in lane until 6 and then they are on their own. In general though, as a support, I don't focus my attention on helping the ADC every game, nor do I always stick with the ADC. Objective control and vision are more my priorities.

I actually don't like supporting players in low elo. When I support players in normals I will sometimes get really bad ADCs. They will be silver or bronze, maybe they are not ADC mains, sometimes they are low gold.

Something I do notice is that typically these players think that I am suppose to stay with them ALL the time. Once I got into mid/upper gold the complaints from ADCs (if they were doing bad) stopped occurring I stopped helping them, leave them, or roam more often. They recognize that they are playing poorly and that helping them more will not lead to a win if all the other lanes are doing well.

I actually didn't even play support until I played on a smurf account that was Silver V. I wanted to get the gold rewards and found that whenever I played other supports the reaction time of players was abysmal if they reacted at all. I was just having a hard time playing Leona and other engage supports. So I decided I was just going to learn more , I selected him as a mid laner for my main account, but I stunk at mid and was having a hard time learning his kit and combos because I would just get dumpstered by mid mains on my main account and my other smurf (which was in gold as well).

So I learned Brand support while climbing through silver on a lower account. It worked out pretty well, I got that account to gold and learned a new champion in the process.

Brand basically does a lot of the same things as sona except lower mobility, no heals, way more damage, and not needing items to do damage. His mana management is way better too and I don't have to worry about building mana-intensive items. I like zoning as a support and he does that really well.

I take him mid sometimes, but I still don't understand mid lane dynamics very well in my elo compared to top or bottom.