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Why I think mid is in a rough spot from an adc perspective.

Ramen226··4 votes·502 views

  1. Ardent meta op.

  2. I think that most assassins kits have no GOAL. Like there's no combo that they have to try and hit in the middle of battle that when complete maximizes damage. Fiora's ult grants her true damage if she hits every side of the enemy and even if she doesn't kill them she gets a massive heal, that's what I'm talking about. Which brings me to the last point.

  3. An assassins ultimate should have the main effect of amplifying damage to a single target. OR they should have at least one part of their kit that maximizes damage against a SINGLE target. As much as I hate the flipper I think his ultimate is well designed. A line skillshot that can easily be bodyblocked and applies his W to make that target vulnerable. An assassins kit should be pretty straightforward and as it stands most of them aren't.

Leblanc: maximize damage by throwing chains on the same target multiple times and hope the damage is enough. All of her abilities rotate around her passive which makes her inherently weaker. Ekko: Get your 3 hit passive off and hope it's enough damage and if it isn't ult out go farm some more and try again later. Zed: Ult onto the target hit your skillshots and hope it deals enough damage and if it isn't shadow dash out go farm some more and try again later. Kha'Zix: Hope that someone becomes isolated and try to burst them before their team engulfs them again. Rengar: Press R, cry because the enemy teams tanks are all surrounding the adc, cry more because it was a failure of a rework. (On a side note I would prefer old Rengar. New Rengar feels so useless with decent team-counter play. I was kinda ok with getting bursted into oblivion only to have him die instantly too. He was great at making 1 for 1 trades or picking off people out of position. Now everybody can just huddle up and he isn't that much of a threat.) Katarina: ok this one can fuck off... JUST KIDDING: Unless you have some hard engage or everyone on the other team is behind then your entire kit revolves around hoping the adc can't riight click you hard enough because it's highly telegraphed where you'll be unless you're at the highest level of play. Shaco: There's actually an interesting bug on the client where it categorizes Shaco as an assassin... Kappa Master yi: AA based. Kassadin: MY ULTIMATE LITERALLY FLASHES ME INTO THE ENEMY TEAM/MIDLANER I AM GOOD YAH. Talon: PARKOUR...and you better hope that the enemy team hasn't warded to see you coming or hasn't cc'd you the instant you come out of stealth because you have 0 mobility to get away if you're in a lane. Akali: Ok this bitch can actually fuck off. Except that your entire combo is Q AA E (pls be dead pls be dead pls be dead.) except with akali they usually are because your damage is immediate unlike most assassin now.

Honorable mention for Evelyn who sucks so much shit right now that she got reworked so I can't comment on her right now. But tbh I think she's one of the cooler assassins in league.

The problems with mages.

  1. Ap itemization

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Give me upvote ples

17 Comments

CrisisEchoes2 votes

This post is a pile of memes.

  1. ardent is kill

  2. no

  3. is actually same as 2 so refer to 2.

The main problem with assasins is that they require you to git gud, which most people cant do. If you arent mechanically skilled enough to play assasins, try mages. They are for less gud players. Syndra is the best of all worlds ^.^

The reason leblanc got a nerf is that her skill cap was too low, and she was disrespecting the skill cap of other assassins. Same with rengar, and katarina.

Ramen2261 votes

Why no to 2? And yeah they require you to get good...so do most roles.

The only additional trouble i can see is that mid lanes are mechanically challenged in ADDITION to mentally :P

Edit: to respond to your edt: And mid lane mages are hardly a threat to me if my support can press buttons. But they're usually filled or ass at the game (hence picking support) so they usually can't.

And that's why i say there should be something like fiora's ult for assassin. Not the same thing like hit all 4 sides, but each should have a specific challenge that when complete all but secures the kill. Which is why i was commenting on how I think fizz's ult is healthy for the game because if you get hit by it you're pretty much dead no matter who you are. The reason assassins have fairly low skill cap is because their kit is straightforward and every single one translates to: hit your skillshots on a squishy target and hope you don't die.

There's more nuance than that but how each champion specifically uses their kit to negate damage is going to vary. (zed press w and katarina presses e) but for the most part it's press your buttons

CrisisEchoes2 votes

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Infinite Saught1 votes

pls kata didn't have a low overall skill cap

Rustling Bush1 votes

so you want every ultimate on assassins to have a mini duskblade effect

wat r u smokin boi?

Ramen2261 votes

Duskblade just has an on hit physical damage effect and a 99% slow for .25 seconds. o_0

I meant like (as an example) reduce zed's over all damage but his damage is massively amplified against targets with a death mark on them.

Warwick Main1 votes

Ekko: Get your 3 hit passive off and hope it's enough damage and if it isn't ult out go farm some more and try again later.

You must not be very familiar with Ekkos kit. You realize his auto attacks do % magic damage based on missing hp when below 30% of your maximum health right? That's why he is more of a skirmisher than an assassin. Even if he doesn't pop you with a Q+E+Auto he can still use his speed up passive to keep autoing you for missing health % damage. The speed up is there so he can stick to his target and bop em, then ult away to safety with his HP restored. He's actually one of the few viable assassins right now.

Ramen2261 votes

I am aware. But saying "if your 3 hit passive doesn't kill them then run at them and auto them to death" isn't exactly a mission or a plan.

ps: I understand there are specific strategies within champion matchups I'm just saying that having a 3 hit passive and then slapping them with a Popsicle doesn't exactly leave the playeer much room to challenge themselves.

If i were going to modify ekko I'd make it so players stunned by his w take 30%% more magic damage from ekko for the next x amount of seconds, but i would also nerf his current kit so that he would deal 90% of what he currently does.

Warwick Main1 votes

{quoted}

I am aware. But saying "if your 3 hit passive doesn't kill them then run at them and auto them to death" isn't exactly a mission or a plan.

If you gank an ADC farming bot solo, and you proc your passive bringing them to 30% health while you're at full, are you just going to run away and farm or are you going to use your passive to chase them down and finish them off?

ps: I understand there are specific strategies within champion matchups I'm just saying that having a 3 hit passive and then slapping them with a Popsicle doesn't exactly leave the playeer much room to challenge themselves.

I have over 300 games on Ekko, not counting all my other accounts and I can tell you utilizing the movement speed off his passive effectively (dodge skill shots, chase down target, or dip out of a fight) can be pretty challenging. Especially if you're trying to dodge a slow so you can stick to your target.

If i were going to modify ekko I'd make it so players stunned by his w take 30%% more magic damage from ekko for the next x amount of seconds, but i would also nerf his current kit so that he would deal 90% of what he currently does.

You realize Ekko's W is one of the hardest skillshots in the game to land right? I'm very thankful you are not in charge of balance. He already has less burst than most other assassins and is only surviving the current meta due to the utility his kit offers. Like I said, you clearly are not very familiar with his kit and as such shouldn't be commenting on him.

Ramen2261 votes

  1. You're still saying ekko's game plan is to get a full rotation off and then auto them to death. I'm not disagreeing with you when I say that's what he does, I'm saying that a champion who's entire kit is based off of a 3 hit passive into aa aa aa aa until they die isn't something that really challenges the player.

  2. Dodging skillshots and mitigating damage isn't something unique to ekko. I'm still saying that there are better ways to make ekko unique and to make him into a more engaging champion to play as AND against.

  3. Yes I do realize it's one of the hardest skillshots to land. He also has less burst than most assassins because his ult can negate a lot of the burst from those assassins...

A couple additional points

a) I'm not trashing your champion. Ekko has a really cool and interesting kit which makes him one of the more challenging and fun to watch mid laners. But you're also just shit talking me without giving good points against what I'm saying. If you want to present your argument to try and convince someone of what you think you shouldn't just say "thank god you aren't in charge of the balance department because ekko w is one of the hardest skillshots to land." Saying, "ekko shouldn't have to rely on landing one of the hardest skillshots in the game to be a useful champion." To which I might respond: Good point, but just saying "its a hard skillshot to land" isn't exactly a good reason for it not being a major part of his kit. Imo all assassins should have at least one part of their kit that is the hard part to master, but is the same part that maximizes damage.

b) Appeal to authority is a fallacy whereby the presenter is using an authority figure in their argument, as their argument. You saying that you have over 300 games on ekko has nothing to do with the topic of how his kit should function or even his current state. Your experience yield knowledge, but also yields TO knowledge. If you have a good point against

ps: I understand there are specific strategies within champion matchups I'm just saying that having a 3 hit passive and then slapping them with a Popsicle doesn't exactly leave the playeer much room to challenge themselves. then say that instead of asserting that you play Ekko more, because I could just as easily go find an Ekko main who might agree with me and then your point is mute.

c) Also I'm not saying you aren't an ekko main, or that you don't play a lot of him, but if you're going to claim over 300 games on Ekko then do it on the accoutn you have 300 games on instead of your one trick warwick.

Zero Drive2 votes

{quoted}

  1. You're still saying ekko's game plan is to get a full rotation off and then auto them to death. I'm not disagreeing with you when I say that's what he does, I'm saying that a champion who's entire kit is based off of a 3 hit passive into aa aa aa aa until they die isn't something that really challenges the player.

That is not the only way to kill a player, it is situational but an option other assassins (with the exception of Zed) really don't have.

  1. Dodging skillshots and mitigating damage isn't something unique to ekko. I'm still saying that there are better ways to make ekko unique and to make him into a more engaging champion to play as AND against.

Ekko's kit is very engaging to play as and against. He has a fairly large player base, and can do far more with his kit than other champions

  1. Yes I do realize it's one of the hardest skillshots to land. He also has less burst than most assassins because his ult can negate a lot of the burst from those assassins...

Not sure why you think nerfing him, to add more power into a skill he may go an entire game without landing is somehow fair.

a) I'm not trashing your champion. Ekko has a really cool and interesting kit which makes him one of the more challenging and fun to watch mid laners.

The issue is you're trying to create these imaginary issues that nobody asides yourself seem to notice for the sake of nerfing him.

Yes, But you're also just shit talking me without giving good points against what I'm saying

I'm not shit talking you, I am stating you do not seem familiar with his kit. My evidence for this is your incorrect claim that all Ekko can do is pop his passive, and if he fails to kill he will ult away and farm.

If you want to present your argument to try and convince someone of what you think you shouldn't just say "thank god you aren't in charge of the balance department

There was no argument here, nor am I trying to convince you of anything. I've yet to see a post of anyone agreeing with your assessment. I am honestly thankful you're not involved in game balancing, because you are not very good at it.

because I could just as easily go find an Ekko main who might agree with me

Find me one with 300+ games then.

c) if you're going to claim over 300 games on Ekko then do it on the accoutn you have 300 games on

Here ya go.

Khristophoros1 votes

Your statement on assassins pigeonholes them too much. A class is only be a vague set of guidelines. Assassins can burst squishies and are mobile. Those are the basic guidelines, but every assassin kit has some additional unique features to separate their strategies and playstyles.

I love Kha'Zix and I wish I was good at him. He's so freestyle, so hit and run. You can move in and out of a fight and chunk any squishy pretty hard whenever you get into melee.

Ekko's damage may be straightforward and boring to land, but his playstyle is defined by the utility in his kit.

Kassadin is legit boring. I used to main him when he had interesting stuff like gaining attack speed from magic damage, and actual utility to do more than just burst people. I wish they'd just scrap his kit and totally remake him at this point.

I don't care about the other assassins so I'm not commenting on them. lol

Ramen2262 votes

I love kha'zix too. Hit and run style adc that has goes jump in jump out is awesome.

What I don't like his kit is based around amplified damage vs isolated units, something the player can't control.

Although I think kha'zix is pretty fine right now because killing isolated units with him is all about waiting patiently for the right opportunity because there will ALWAYS be an isolated unit if you wait long enough.

On ekko I commented on it before. Reducing his overall damage but making it amplified vs targets stunned with parallel convergence would make him 10x better. As in his new reduced damage would be about 85% as strong but the new amplified damage would be about 30% stronger than it is now.

Kassadin has potential, but there's just not really outplay potential. Like you can Riftwalk to dodge skillshots but then you're really just either wasting the damage from ult or there wasn't a need to dodge it with R in the first place.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

I love kha'zix too. Hit and run style adc that has goes jump in jump out is awesome.

What I don't like his kit is based around amplified damage vs isolated units, something the player can't control.

Although I think kha'zix is pretty fine right now because killing isolated units with him is all about waiting patiently for the right opportunity because there will ALWAYS be an isolated unit if you wait long enough.

On ekko I commented on it before. Reducing his overall damage but making it amplified vs targets stunned with parallel convergence would make him 10x better. As in his new reduced damage would be about 85% as strong but the new amplified damage would be about 30% stronger than it is now.

Kassadin has potential, but there's just not really outplay potential. Like you can Riftwalk to dodge skillshots but then you're really just either wasting the damage from ult or there wasn't a need to dodge it with R in the first place.

I like Kha'Zix isolation mechanic. It's always been an assassin-style mechanic all the way back to DotA with Spectre's Desolate. The concept is very much an assassin concept because you have to wait for an opportunity to utilize it, and one of the core things about assassins is that they are opportunists waiting for a target to be out of position. Kha'Zix doubles down on this concept with his isolation mechanic. Like, a core idea is you shouldn't be able to control it because that very lack of control reinforces the opportunist playstyle.

However I think Duskblade evens him out in a good way because it gives him another option for dealing damage when he ults. So I think he's in a pretty neat place right now. Just wish I was a god with him XD he's so sickkkk

Ramen2262 votes

Great points.

I really shouldn't have brought him up though I meant for the post to be targetted towards mid laners, my fault.

And yes, kha'zix is sick

Ahris1 votes

If burst mages can't burst than what is the point of them?

Riot should remove burst mages and replace them into sustained damage mages. Riot hates burst mages so turning them into sustained mage would be more fair.

For example, reduce the cd of the burst mage's ability but also lower their damage. Thus in the long run, the damage would be higher.

Ahri's Q has flat 7 sec, that is really high for a basic ability cd. Making it to like 6 flat would be a good start.

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