I don't get the Brand hate.*

Worst Kench NA··3 votes·1,468 views

*I'd have to preface this by saying that I'm not sure what this situation is like in high elos. I'm speaking from a lower elo perspective.

Brand is an incredibly easy to deal with champion. He's got no mobility, he needs to hit his combo to do anything, sure his scaling can be dumb but that's an easy fix. Compare him to a champ that some people think is an outright troll pick as a support: Ziggs.

CC/Peel: With Brand, you've got to hit two of his abilities to stun people, and it has to be after you hit an initial one. Ziggs can instantly CC you, and even knock you towards his ADC. He's got two abilities in his kit that allows for CC.

Poke: Sure, Brand's W can offer more damage and is harder to escape, but Ziggs can poke much more often, and even has an empowered auto that encourages poking with it.

Escaping yourself and preventing other's escapes: Brand has no mobility and has to rely on hitting his stun to escape. Ziggs can knock himself back with his W to create a little more space. If someone's trying to get away from Brand, he has to rely again on his stun to catch people out. Ziggs can knock himself forwards and Q people, and he has his ult which can destroy anyone in lane trying to back, as well as past the laning phase.

Damage: I'd argue that Brand and Ziggs can be pretty equal on this regard. One of the ways that Brand beats Ziggs is in teamfights, but Ziggs still has many abilities that can influence a teamfight. His W is also amazing as a support ability, allowing for towers to come down extra quick with you and your ADC both attacking them.

Health: They're both mages, and are incredibly squishy as a result. Ziggs has much more in his kit to deal with that sort of thing than Brand does, however. As far as playing against them, they both cause you to die in lane as they're AP supports and that's their point. How would Ziggs be less annoying to play against than Brand?

I just don't see why he gets so much hate in particular when there's other AP picks, even ones that are considered trolling, that could do the same job.

14 Comments

Frosted Tips3 votes

The hate is because a champion getting off 1 ability in a team fight or while getting caught should never scare a squishy that they are going to lose 80% of their health at. His passive is overtuned and his ult is targeted. Honestly nerf his passive and buff his Q damage and make his Ult a skill shot that then bounces around after you land it and he is fine for now.

Worst Kench NA1 votes

{quoted}

The hate is because a champion getting off 1 ability in a team fight or while getting caught should never scare a squishy that they are going to lose 80% of their health at. His passive is overtuned and his ult is targeted. Honestly nerf his passive and buff his Q damage and make his Ult a skill shot that then bounces around after you land it and he is fine for now.

Is he more of an issue in higher elos then? Because in lower elos, even if he does get his ult off, you can take advantage of the one thing lower elos are bad at (positioning) to one shot him.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Like he is not hard to deal with later into the game it is just frustrating and not skillful. It is unfun to face him and he doesn't need to do anything special to dish out a ton of damage. It is just not a good experience and it is to easy.

WeepinShades1 votes

{quoted}

Like he is not hard to deal with later into the game it is just frustrating and not skillful. It is unfun to face him and he doesn't need to do anything special to dish out a ton of damage. It is just not a good experience and it is to easy.

Unreal. This guy is in other threads talking about how yasuo is fine to play against. And this is his opinion about Brand. LOL

Frosted Tips1 votes

There is legit so much counterplay to Yasuo it is unreal how people can't see it. And just because one of my opinions differ from yours doesn't mean it is wrong or my other opinions are invalid. Like yeah Bramd has counter play but he is obnoxious and unfun and in general his ultimate should be a skill shot.

ankoanko191 votes

Why does low elo even matter? Riot balances around high elo and Brand has been oppressive af for months now. Pressing R in a TF and winning without any thinking is not fun to play against. It's not fun that you have to prioritize Brand more than their jungler if you wanna do baron because of his insane AOE dmg. That and the not so fun laning. It's like Zyra but with better teamfighting I guess

Infernape2 votes

The problem with Brand "support" is that he deals shit tons of damage on a low budget. His passive gives him a lot of free damage %HP to boot, meaning it's incredibly effective against tankier targets (which most melee supports tend to be), making him a lot more oppressive against them. Not to mention the fact that his base damage is incredibly high If you mistep once, you're taking a crap ton of damage in lane.

Worst Kench NA1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with Brand "support" is that he deals shit tons of damage on a low budget. His passive gives him a lot of free damage %HP to boot, meaning it's incredibly effective against tankier targets (which most melee supports tend to be), making him a lot more oppressive against them. Not to mention the fact that his base damage is incredibly high If you mistep once, you're taking a crap ton of damage in lane.

I've always felt this about AP supports in general, though. Like say, if I'm playing against a Zyra, or Morgana, or Zilean or if someone actually would pick Ziggs against me, I'd have to play really far back and play a more passive lane if I were a tank support because they can still light me up. Is it really more annoying than a Zyra or Morgana snare, or a Zilean stun+slow? It it because their budgets are much higher?

Frosted Tips1 votes

I mean Morgana and Zilean are not because of their damage though. They counter pick Zilean R and Morgana E and Morgan counters CC which is all tank supports bring to the table so she just negates them because they can't do enough damage to her shield.

NichtHurz1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with Brand "support" is that he deals shit tons of damage on a low budget. His passive gives him a lot of free damage %HP to boot, meaning it's incredibly effective against tankier targets (which most melee supports tend to be), making him a lot more oppressive against them. Not to mention the fact that his base damage is incredibly high If you mistep once, you're taking a crap ton of damage in lane.

I've just seen way too many brands with a supp item and a codex dealing more damage than their midlaner with decent farm and 2 kills. Sure, with some champs I'll just pop him, but if he has a setup he'll act like a second midlaner. Neither Velkoz, Annie or Zyra can compete with this damage in any way.

King Braum1 votes

item 3116 also E is an instant toggle to follow up with any secondary ability for a near instant stun.

CC/Peel: Brand's E, Q combo is an easy and reliable stun.

Poke: Brand's E, W combo is an easy and reliable form of poke, dealing an extra 25% bonus damage from his passive Blaze. This ability is again fairly easy to combo into his E, Q W for his secondary passive 12 - 16% of an enemy's max hp on top of the initial damage of the combo and the burning of his initial passive.

Escaping yourself and preventing other's escapes: Brand has no mobility but large AoE abilities, with a reliable stun and while this is not the best form of escape most of this relies on Brand's own ability to properly position himself.

Damage: on level 3 Brand has a 24% HP burn/explosion on his passive alone. or 28+% on level 9, mix this with his large AoE abilities and brand suddenly has a very early potential to take out both bot laners with a single combo.

Overall, I dont hate Brand but it's easy to see why he gets hate, his combo is extremely easy to land and can even be done by accident as his passive is not consumed by any other abilities allowing you to simply spam out a E-Q-W and gain the passive boost on each ability, along with blaze and the additional explosion, add this with his ult and suddenly minions become a thread as hiding behind your own minions means Brand can simply do a E-R-W, ignoring the Q, still hitting you with CC and now even more damage as the ult will bounce from your minions back to you or you steer clear from your minions only to have Brand use his E-Q-W, stunning you and hitting you with a soft nuke without even having to waste his ult.

Colton1471 votes

Ziggs has one of the highest skill caps in the entire game and provides little to no damage right now due to how trash he is. (Level 7 Ziggs player)

Worst Kench NA1 votes

{quoted}

Ziggs has one of the highest skill caps in the entire game and provides little to no damage right now due to how trash he is. (Level 7 Ziggs player)

He is? I've regularly out-damaged my ADC and have often times done the most damage to champions on my team. Again, low elo, so that can be taken with a pinch of salt, but I'd argue that mages like Azir or Ryze are more reliant on player skill than Ziggs is. I've never felt as useless playing Ziggs than I have as Brand against a team that can easily shut me down.

SomeOneButNoOne1 votes

You forgot a core thing. Ziggs needs items to scale. Brand doesn't. He will always deal atleast 10-20% of your maximum HP with his passive proc. That is why Brand support is the problem, while Ziggs is meh.

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