How does Black Cleaver work with Last Whisper now?

Nebuul··3 votes·1,294 views

item 3071 + item 3035

How does this work now?

Lets say Rammus has 104 base armor + 104 bonus armor. You stack cleaver on him fully for 30% armor reduction, and you have last whisper for 30% bonus armor penetration. I know cleaver is applied first, since it is an armor reduction on the target. What is unclear is which of these three ways it applies:

  1. base x .3 + bonus x .3 reduction, so rammus will have 73 base and 73 bonus armor after cleaver is applied. Then last whisper will reduce 73 by an additional 22, so rammus' final armor will be 73 + 51 = 124
  2. total armor x .3, subtract from base then bonus. So 208 x .3 = 62.4. Rammus will then have only 42 base armor left, and the full 104 bonus armor. last whisper will reduce 31.2 armor from the bonus. Final armor = 115
  3. total armor x .3, subtract from bonus then base. So rammus will only have 42 bonus armor left. last whisper will reduce that by an additional 13. So final armor = 133

There is almost a 20 armor swing there. The more bonus armor someone has, the larger the swing will be. Does anyone know the answer?

10 Comments

Void Nargacuga2 votes

item 3071 actually reduces their armor by 5% stacking up to 6 times. Total armor reduction 30%. I'm now also curious on how this and the new item 3035 & its upgrades item 3036 item 3033 work with this!

Nebuul1 votes

Sorry I mis-typed penetration instead of reduction. But yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

Your fine. Still though... Makes the gears in your head start turning trying to figure out how they work... Oh wait, I forgot.

http://tx.english-ch.com/teacher/mar/math%20hurts%20my%20brain.jpg

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pFkgbW24,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T09:22:17.057+0000)

item 3071 actually reduces their armor by 5% stacking up to 6 times. Total armor reduction 30%. I'm now also curious on how this and the new item 3035 & its upgrades item 3036 item 3033 work with this!

Then this means that The Black Cleaver and Last Whisper have poor synergy thogether now?

Void Nargacuga1 votes

Probably not? I don't know... Please don't make me do math!

http://tx.english-ch.com/teacher/mar/math%20hurts%20my%20brain.jpg

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

im pretty sure riot doesnt know either

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

Black Cleaver will remove total resist but it removes the bonus armor first. It counts as an active debuff thus last whisper calculates after Black Cleaver.

I presume it's this way but will test it.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Test it in a bot game, for example against a Shen, Malphite and Garen.

Click on the champion you're applying stacks to. Mouse over their Armor value. If it reduces base Armor, you'd see the displayed base Armor being lower than without any stacks.

ltmetal1 votes

Short answer: Black Cleaver shred counts first, then Last Whisper.

Long answer: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_penetration

Nebuul1 votes

The question isn't about order of operation, rather it is about how cleaver reduces base and bonus armor.

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