Urgot's Q, oh how do I hate thee. Let me count the ways

Nebuul··108 votes·4,950 views

Urgot Q:

  1. You are short-ranged. I don't care if it says 800 range. It is outranged by every-f'ing-thing.
  2. You have a long cooldown. 12 seconds at level 1? Level 1 at 8 seconds would still suck. Level 5 at 8 seconds sucks.
  3. You have low damage with a terrible ratio and a long cast time. Seriously, at skill level 1 it actually lowers your DPS to cast it.
  4. You can be dodged easily. There is absolutely no reason to have any delay on this ability. If it had a 4 second cooldown? Yeah, sure, the delay would be fair. But every 8 seconds (ok, every 4.8 with 40% CDR...) your opponent gets to dodge your 1 second low-damage slow? Why?!?
  5. You are a short-ranged, long-cooldown, low-damage, easily-dodged ability. Fuck you, Q.

How much budget is the 1 second slow taking on this ability? Because I find it hard to reconcile a 1 second slow for something with such objectively horrible everything else. Is it the lock-on? Because if you land this slow and then cast W, they will still outrun you. You have to land the E, which locks on anyway, in order to get decent damage in with W.

84 Comments

500000000000000026 votes

Would it be healthier if he could have charges on his Q?

Sir Fuzzi4 votes

Yeah, 1/1/2/2/3 maybe?

The problem is it's not great lead in and it doesn't really justify being saved for a follow-up. It feels like it should be spammable without a slow.

I don't really know why it has the slow, to be honest. It's not really enough for him to be catching up in any meaningful way. It's also too light-hitting to ever be of consequence on its own. But it's not spammable either, so it really doesn't do much for him at a distance. It's also easy to dodge out of just by moving if he does land it on you.

Chazual Fridays1 votes

I at least like the thought behind this, but perhaps in a different way - I like the idea of giving him a bit more to do when his W is on CD (in this case a few pokey potshots), because I feel very out of place while I'm twiddling my thumbs until W is up again, and maybe changing the Q in such a way that it's satisfying to use in non-W cases could be nice.

One of the things about old Urgot was he had a very one-track damage pattern with no room for mixups, except maybe if you choose to W while you EQQQ or not, and new Urgot is certainly better but not substantially different; in both kits there is a period of felt uselessness for a small but significant period of time (miss E with old Urgot, Q/E misses or W on CD with new Urgot), and in both kits there is really only one damage pattern.

I definitely enjoy new Urgot a ton, but I do notice I consistently feel bad post-lane phase.

I'd go on but I don't want to de-rail the specific topic at hand.

Doozku17 votes

As a person who plays Karthus, its easier to land a Karthus Q than it is to land this, although that could just be because he has almost no cd on his Q.

Urgot needs to be able to land this easier since the effect isn't even that strong and the cd is high af. As it stands this is one of the worst abilities in the game and yet you still have to max it first because none of his other spells are any good with points put into them.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

The effect is strong though. Matched with his W, the ability to reliably kite and get off your passive, which his kit is fully built around, is extremely valuable.

Dextix LT6 votes

The effect is weak. The slow in nonexistant, the aoe is nonexistant, the damage is nonexistant.

The lock on effect is nowhere near as valuable when compared to how shitty the ability is.

Also, ask yourself this, what use is your lock on effect from long range where your w wont reach? And what is the use of it, if you can just e the enemy?

This is also on top of how hard it is to actually hit it, since even champs without boots can easily walk out of it.

Let's face it, the ability is shit, it might as well not exist for how "usefull" it is.

LordGeovanni1 votes

karthus Q has no travel time while Urgot Q has to travel then delay to activate

Captain Aptos2 votes

let's not forget karthus q also does WAY more damage

Fisher No Chains13 votes

There's a growing trend in Riot's mind, and it is that every champions needs a lot of counterplay. We're at a point where some champions have TOO MUCH counterplay though.

Urgot's Q or Ornn's "everything" are good examples of this, because those spells are so telegraphed that even a dismounted Kled could dodge them easily. And it surely gives them counterplay, but it also makes them unrealiable and unfun to use.

I'm fine with champions having counterplay as long as they don't give too much time to play around their kit. I don't think that a decent player will ever get hit by Urgot's Q unless he's CC'd. And this is just bad design imo, because it doesn't matter how good you are with Urgot but instead depends on how bad your opponent is.

ZT Xperimentor9 votes

Probably because their last additions and updates are frustratingly known for denying counterplay. Fizz is a small assassin that has an even shorter cooldown jump, able to cross walls while dealing damage but also making himself intangible. Vayne a notoriously difficult marksman to put down late game, gained significant sustain for doing her job. Warwick's rework gave him the global ability to reveal low health enemies . . . useful if you have anyone with a global ultimate. Kayn and talon are high damage assassins that can clip through walls on a whim, making them hard to catch and easy to gank with. Xayah a marksmen who's ultimate makes her intangible ontop of setting her up to burst nearby enemies, when critical hits already chunk about everyone. Ivern the jungler can literally create cover to hide his allies. Katarina's rework kept her resourceless while giving her more blinks than kassadin. Malzahar's rework gave him a better banshee's veil. Caitlyn's update granted her the capacity to solo-siege. Quinn can be more globaly obnoxious than teemo when in the right hands since her rework.

But I would say they need to split the difference, make everyone have some reliability and counterplay, instead of one or the other.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Just that most of the frustraiting champs are great at absueing counterplay of their opponents. Also, most of them DO actually have counterplay on thier own. What keeps them in check are reliable cc/damage, and aside from ADC and their bullshit AAs, that's slowly getting removed from the game...

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Point & click abilities are needed to counter hyper-mobile champions, but kalista ironically is the only one that can miss her auto-attacks. Thing is some champions have no chance to counterplay these problematic ones, and additions that aren't outright just as unfair, tend to be abusable by the already oppressive champions, keeping the status quo one-sided.

Rouwhorst3 votes

Malzahar's rework added voidlings with "counterplay" which they have up to day. ᵗʰᵉʸ ᶜᵃᶰ'ᵗ ʳᵉᵃᶜʰ ᵗʰᵉᶦʳ ᵗᵃʳᵍᵉᵗ

Toru Itai3 votes

I miss the old passive voidlings :<

Jaygo415 votes

You're trying to say old warwick had MORE counterplay? Sorry, most of these are less than half-truths... These past updates and reworks have only been good for the game, other than Malz and Quinn. What champs do you play exactly? Do they have strengths, like most of the champs you've listed here?

LordGeovanni2 votes

Im sorry but i could outfight old warwick if i didnt have more than 30% lifesteal so i didnt drop below 50% hp at all. new warwick its a slug fest until you reach 50% hp you can only hope your team saw and moved to surround him before the sure kill 25% window.

DragonShea3 votes

{quoted}

There's a growing trend in Riot's mind, and it is that every champions needs a lot of counterplay. We're at a point where some champions have TOO MUCH counterplay though.

Urgot's Q or Ornn's "everything" are good examples of this, because those spells are so telegraphed that even a dismounted Kled could dodge them easily. And it surely gives them counterplay, but it also makes them unrealiable and unfun to use.

I'm fine with champions having counterplay as long as they don't give too much time to play around their kit. I don't think that a decent player will ever get hit by Urgot's Q unless he's CC'd. And this is just bad design imo, because it doesn't matter how good you are with Urgot but instead depends on how bad your opponent is.

however when it comes to ADC's and Skirmishers, they give them little to no counterplay. That is biased AF.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Skirmishers counterplay is that they have no way to poke and need to all in in which every other class has more movemnt speed through these optionsitem 3086 item 3113

LordGeovanni1 votes

i dont see them giving it to mages or adcs. Only tanks and melee champions get to need counterplay in their kits.

Profirix10 votes

Q should at least deal a decent damage over time. It serves only to apply 'lock-on' from about the same range as E...

TheDevice9 votes

The issue is that Urgot is not from Ionia

If Urgot was from Ionia he'd automatically have faster cooldowns and deal more damage. His dash range would naturally increase and he'd be a competitive pick. The same goes for if he were a female champ. It's lolscience.

LordGeovanni1 votes

I notice that with demacians too.

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

The issue is that Urgot is not from Ionia

If Urgot was from Ionia he'd automatically have faster cooldowns and deal more damage. His dash range would naturally increase and he'd be a competitive pick. The same goes for if he were a female champ. It's lolscience.

Is that why almost all of the currently competitive as well as pick/ban champs are not Ionian? Neither is the majority of competitive champs female.

The strawman is really strong in this one.

Cosmic Warper6 votes

His Q is one of the most unsatisfying abilities to both cast and land. The sound, the projectile, the size, the delay, the damage, EVERYTHING

Captain Aptos1 votes

I SUPER agree with you. it's like a less damaging karthus q on a 12 second cd with travel delay and explosion delay. aka super unsatisying

Sahn Uzal5 votes

Combo it with E, you E them, then Q right where your target will land. Makes it way more reliable.

Jeddy0176 votes

Well, against melee champs, this is a reliable tactic.

Not as effective against ranged champs though. You need to Q them to slow them just so you can get into range to E them. Unless you flash, they get CCed by someone else or they're just stupid enough to be in range of your E, the range champ would start walking away if you try to get into E range.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

True, but it's still a useful tip to put out there, is it not?

My Heartshaker1 votes

Yeah I don't think you want to pick urgot into ranged.

Jeddy0172 votes

Well, sometimes you don't get a choice in the matter if you have to pick 1st.

ModKnightsKemplar5 votes

He should be able to move and cast Q. I think that might fix it, because that cements it as a real catch tool that allows you to lock on. It wouldn't even bother me if it didn't do damage. Maybe it shouldn't.

Frontline Fury4 votes

Honestly, this is probably the main problem with new Urgot for me... I just feel ostracized as a former Urgot enthusiast. His old Q was extremely basic, true, but it was satisfying. It was quick and responsive, while also allowing room for mastery by using its hitbox to hit enemies (or minions) around other targets.

This Q is just... Wrong. Its like it doesnt even belong on this champion as a whole.

KuroCaliber2 votes

The new q is his old e. His old q now on his w. Along with the w

Dextix LT4 votes

The new q is his old e but shittier. His old q now on his w but shittier. Along with the w but shittier.

Fixed it for you.

KuroCaliber1 votes

And there's no bias at all there.

Dextix LT4 votes

I probably am considering i played the old urgot and the new one feels like shit to play.

When i played Sion (The reworked version) i felt better than playing the old sion.

Here? Riot made a thematic champion with a shit kit.

Frontline Fury1 votes

The old E was better than the new Q in every possible way. It did damage over time, it reduced armor and it had a pretty big splash area. Not to mention it had alright range.

The new Q feels like it has even shorter range than his basic attacks

Son of Ur4 votes

Urgot's Q isn't all bad.

A) Reliable farming tool. You can kill all caster minions with 1 Q and 1 shotgun. Or you can get hard to reach minions.

B) While this ability can be used to poke or get a slow off to engage albeit with some questionable consistency, a guaranteed way to get your Q off is using it right after your E. It slows them keeping them there longer while your Purge is activated.

I'm not trying to say your concerns aren't warranted. But he is already one of the better 1v1 dueling champs. He has high damage and defense if you get close to him. Would this be chipping away at an intended weakness? How many times have we seen relatively new champs keep getting buffs before entering the unwholesome balance team's nerf hospital?

Nebuul4 votes

An 8-second-cooldown basically pure-damage ability like this should 1-shot the hell out of caster minions late game. The fact that you have to then walk up and auto attack them and have that leg's shotgun charge available is exactly the problem.

Thilmer3 votes

Meanwhile, Twitch can use his W in a bigger área with less delay, because "fuck balance".

Meep Man2 votes

Twitch's W doesn't deal hardly any damage though without his E.

Thilmer6 votes

{quoted}

Twitch's W doesn't deal hardly any damage though without his E.

Urgot's Q deals irrelevant damage.

Andrey03452 votes

Guess you just don't put a single point into this ability at all.

SolarisCorvus2 votes

You kinda gotta predict where they going with q. To me its fine for later in the game because its nice to combo it with e to catch people out.

Mecha Incognito2 votes

They should drastically lower it's cooldown and give it less damage, but landing it on something new should switch lock on target.

Surely that'd be more useful, even if it had a 2 second cool down and did actually 20 damage, wouldn't that help Urgot out more for fighting/giving him a chance if he misses E? Oh, make the slow like 0.5 seconds or something.

Jamenawerl2 votes

New Urgot is garbage honestly. Not a single ability of his is satisfying to use, let alone powerful.

If only his casting times were reduced to a normal duration he would feel decent, even if he remained weak. Right now he is just a pile of trash that locks itself in the spot for free.

DragonShea2 votes

{quoted}

New Urgot is garbage honestly. Not a single ability of his is satisfying to use, let alone powerful.

If only his casting times were reduced to a normal duration he would feel decent, even if he remained weak. Right now he is just a pile of trash that locks itself in the spot for free.

Urgot is feast and famine. If he can get a lead people are fucked. But trust me. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING! Is more satisfying than reeling in some poor fool to execute.

NeoAnderson2 votes

Dying when his ulti is going off just to save the opponent is the worst part of him. Both he and the target should be untargettable. Instead of being vulnerable for 3 seconds being unable to move to show some terrible animation go off.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

I just think he should be able to move during the whole thing. The worst is tower diving and getting the ult pull but right before you walk out of turret to safely execute you get self-stunned at the edge of tower range and die to turret shots.

Feelsbad.

Also it would make it a thousand times easier to effectively use the fear portion of the ult which seems to only be useful currently as a disengage for your team when you kill the enemy diver with it.

Violet Fields2 votes

See why us old Urgot mains hate him so much now? His old Q did twice the amount of damage it does now and you could spam it every two seconds. It also had 6 times the range if you landed your E, WHICH WAS INSTANT.

The only thing I liked about this rework was his farming capabilities which were buffed horrendously (not satisfying at all) , but is still practical. The old Urgot taught you how to farm while the new one does it for you. Like, the only point in using his W is if you were going to engage on the enemy top laner. He's basically a rip off of graves on sticks with terrible mobility and everything else in his kit not matching up with the meta.

Like, he wasn't in meta before, and he still isn't lol. He can't engage a team fight unless he flashes in (THE OLD URGOT COULD BE THE TANK, now he's just a second engage, why play Urgot when Kennen is a better option, lol). People think his ultimate is what makes him OP, but everything else in his kit is mediocre.

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