We need a pink ward slot. Need. And other stuff.

Nebuul··103 votes·3,441 views

I realize games are usually FF@20 now, but lets say, hypothetically, a game went long. So long, in fact, that players were reaching full build. Or even just "need every slot but not quite complete items" build.

At that point in the game, pink wards no longer exist. It's like a timer. Used to be, one or two people could upgrade their trinket and have a pink available to help with (insert reason to see invis champs here). Heck, even sweeper could be used in a fight. But now? Now all invisible champions/abilities have a new hidden power: They become undetectable late-game.

There is a simple solution, of course: Item slot #8: Ward Slot. If you feel that a slot just to hold pink wards is a bad idea, then you could do one of these things:

  1. Reinstate green wards since, PLEASE REINSTATE GREEN WARDS. Then the slot could hold pink or green.
  2. Allow the slot to hold any of these: item 2043 item 2049 item 2045
  3. Give us the ability to make the Vision Ward upgrade trinket again, so we could choose between: item 3362 item 3340 item 3363 item 3341 item 3364

On a very related note, there is a reason to keep item 3340 over item 3363 -- you can teleport to the wards, and they are harder to destroy. However, there is no reason to keep item 3341 over item 3364. I mean, would you like to detect a much smaller area for a shorter duration, or would you like to pay exactly nothing and detect a huge area that moves with you and lasts 50% longer? The choice is yours! Why not make the un-upgraded one actually useful. For instance, it could fully reveal invisible units in the area? It's duration could increase with level to be even longer than the oracle upgrade (since it is stationary). It's cooldown could be dramatically reduced.

TLDR: The vision situation sucks right now. Please do something to help alleviate it.

38 Comments

Virgin Ray12 votes

Support ward here, ward there, ward baron, ward dragon. WARD WARD WARD WARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bard "Woo Aoooo Chooooo" TRANSLATION- "Screw you guys, im gettting my chimes."

3ofGot40ve7 votes

So true QQ. Late game with full build pink wards don't exist

DeusVult5 votes

Mostly good valid points, but making item 2049 item 2045 not take up an item slot is just too much power

literally everyone at high elos would rush sightstone or item 2302 and then change their trinket to sweeper so that they could gain/deny as much vision as possible.

Anu3isII1 votes

Yeah , but you would miss the vision ward slot later in the game. And I think his idea is to make ONLY Sightstone to hold that slot , not its upgrades.

I think it would be kinda interesting , because it would force the support to choose between more utility (the support items line with actives and the simple Sightstone build) or more vision control ( upgraded Sighstone and 2/3 vision wards prepared for controlling the map ).

I know you can place only one pink ward , but it is great if you have one ready all the time.

Nebuul2 votes

I agree that sightstone would be too good outside of a slot. Mostly I just want pink wards to be available at full build again.

DingleNutsMcGee3 votes

You sir (OP) are my hero lol ive been thinking about this for a while now. And just the vision game this season in general. Idk why riot wants the map to be so dark. But just b/c bad players chose not to upgrade their trinkets in season 5 doesnt mean they should take away almost all vision from ppl who actually use it. Riot basically took the ability to gain info away from the player base. Its mind-boggling to me.

zmmby2 votes

who the hell cares about LCS rly

make a seperate game for them to play on their championship i dont give a fk

why should 25m people have their gameplay changed so 100-500 people can play their battles on a huge screen

KarKzz1 votes

A "pink ward slot" is a bad idea, because it's the reason why trinket existed at first... So just bring back pink ward trinket / sweeper.

GhastlyGhoulMan1 votes

To be honest, I really like the idea of being able to choose between the new red sweeper upgrade, the new blue trinket, and a hypothetical return of the old upgradable yellow trinkets. They would achieve what Riot was trying to do for the longest time, which is make them equally appealing to players.

Not that wards exist in most of my games that I didn't place down myself anyways... :(

IS1E531E3F9641931 votes

unless you're in gold or something sweeper appears to be useless, used it literally the entire game, outside laning phase where I found 2 I never found a single ward

dr lichdeath1 votes

i usually dont buy or use it a lot except for objectives twitch and teemos

Bladerunner77771 votes

Akali item 3070

Ztoka1 votes

I could see a normal pink (old green) ward going there but not a sightstone. Sightstone gives additional stats so it needs to tie up an actual item slot imo. Would rock to have an extra slot for the pink/green wards especially late game!

Jus Clownin1 votes

No. Vision needs a cost beyond just gold. Vision is probably the most OP thing in league.

CitadelOfIce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jus Clownin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyE13tvV,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-12-17T18:58:53.624+0000)

No. Vision needs a cost beyond just gold. Vision is probably the most OP thing in league.

But its part of league its a mechanic. Knowledge it half your game. Saying Vision is too OP and should cost high levels of gold and an item slot is like saying the Queen in chess should only be allowed if you got a pawn all the way to the other side. Yes its very powerful but its a key part of the game. If you don't want to put up with vision don't play league. Play Dawn of War or Starcraft, wards aren't a problem there.

BringYourOwnPuma1 votes

And you get a trinket that drops free wards. You have your vision, and you have the option (OPTION) to spend 75 gold and a temporary inventory spot for a permanent invis seeing ward. If these wards were given their own slot stealth champions would become impossible to play, which in all honesty is probably the real reason for this thread. It is part of league, and as it stands now its fine.

MysteriousBootie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jus Clownin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyE13tvV,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-12-17T18:58:53.624+0000)

No. Vision needs a cost beyond just gold. Vision is probably the most OP thing in league.

That would turn the game into "League of Cheese". WOOPS I died because people were in the fog of war, or I lost because the enemy team was doing baron and we can't see it oh noooes

Dengeden1 votes

I get that not everyone watches LCS but vision - was - way - too - strong.

The part about pink wards was plain wrong. Supports can stick to 5 items and keep buying pinks ad infimum. You can sell an item, place a pink and then buy the item again too.

Anu3isII1 votes

LCS does not represent the whole community , and the game is not balanced ONLY around them.

Also , a support can place only ONE pink ward on the map , and if he/she chooses to use it only for destroying wards , then it is not achieving its goal to offer vision/safety.

This is a team game , and this change is supposed to help the non-support individuals to offer more vision. As you mentioned , a support will not care about that "free" slot.

And that "strong LCS vision" was granted by the powerful Greater Totem Ward being finally used by some players and the simple Green Wards being bought... I think we can agree that without these two elements, the vision is now actually limited.

Dengeden1 votes

It doesn't but if you don't use vision as excessively as pros do, you're not getting hit that hard.

Errr, wat. Oke, it's a team game therefore, everyone should be able to do everyone's job. No one should provide anything unique, k.

No? Every team had dual Sighstone, the warding totem was just icing on the cake (because it was nigh impossible to deny vision). Vision is supposed to be limited, it grinds out games. Besides, the blue trinket is ample compensation.

MysteriousBootie1 votes

{quoted}

I get that not everyone watches LCS but vision - was - way - too - strong.

The part about pink wards was plain wrong. Supports can stick to 5 items and keep buying pinks ad infimum. You can sell an item, place a pink and then buy the item again too.

Even if we are to assume vision was a "problem" then just improve ways to deny vision, instead of ruining vision entirely.

Dengeden1 votes

Vision isn't ruined, it's just weaker. There were already plenty ways to deny vision, it just wasn't enough. You ward got swept? Wait 5 seconds and replace it. Btw, the area around said ward is also lit up. There's just no way to deny dual Sightstone combo'd with warding trinket.

The preseason patchnotes elaborated on why they nerfed vision. It was a completely mindless process, you couldn't go wrong with spamming wards.

iMaB3AST1 votes

For pink trinkets i was thinking about having every two stealth wards you place granting ur next ward to be a free (has no cd) pink u can place.

SirHeavyScrotum1 votes

I upgraded my trinket in s5 RELIGIOUSLY. I felt like a noob if I didn't, and I felt like it was part of what made me a better player than others.

But as far as the reasons behind them nerfing vision, it's because 1) the LCS was boring. No one wants to watch 40 minutes of ward clearing. 2) they wanted games to be faster. This forces us to face check when we know it's a bad idea, so the games go faster because there are more catches.

I miss being able to place meaningful wards and have a choice on how I wanted to spend my trinket slot, whether that be getting true sight for my team or getting more vision. The wards now that all last 1 minute unless they're from the green smite or a sightstone don't feel very important. What's the point of warding Baron for 1 minute, they can just do it after one minute. Yeah I spent a lot of money on wards, but at least they felt important, unlike the cheaper wards now.

Kind of feels like they've been trying to make the game easier for noobs (and consequently making there less of a skill ceiling and providing less room for improvement) over the course of last season and this preseason.

4thHorsman1 votes

Amen! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

killd0zer1 votes

Bronze Ideas: Starring Nebuul

Karn Bishop1 votes

I don't miss green wards, i do miss pinks and other items to deal with high invisibility champions like Akali Rengar Shaco LeeSin MonkeyKing Talon Leblanc most of which are unstoppable monsters when you cannot regain vision of them in close combat.

I did not include Evelynn on purpose, she does not have true stealth and has natural anti invisibility built into her kit.

LSmaster161 votes

Lee Sin, high invisibility champion... Everyone is invisible to him, not the other way around. Seriously though, unupgraded red needs a buff.

BringYourOwnPuma1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyE13tvV,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-12-18T00:54:11.727+0000)

I don't miss green wards, i do miss pinks and other items to deal with high invisibility champions like Akali Rengar Shaco LeeSin MonkeyKing Talon Leblanc most of which are unstoppable monsters when you cannot regain vision of them in close combat.

I did not include Evelynn on purpose, she does not have true stealth and has natural anti invisibility built into her kit.

You got a sweeper that follows you around for 6 seconds and reveals any invis champions. You got a support( And mid lane) Knife that launches ghosts thats extremely popular right now that prevents invisible champs from going invisible. You have the ability to HOLD ONTO your pink ward before a fight and drop it to reveal invisible champions. Numerous abilities can strike and reveal invisible champions. Any of these champions (Except lee sin lol), if you strip away their ability to be invisible become worthless. If two people on your team take sweeper you can essentially make any game with a stealth champion a 5v4. Stop whining about invis champs and use the tools you have at your disposal to counter them.

Karn Bishop1 votes

New sweeper is not a true reveal, only a general area reveal, that being said if the true damage smite actually did what it says i'd not have a problem, currently it doesn't show invisible people even though it grants true sight.

I enjoy stealth champions, but that doesn't mean i think the champions i play should have zero counters especially late game when nobody has a slot for pinks left, i actually think a lot of stealth champions should have built in counter measures to their kit like eve does, heck vayne could have something where the person she is autoing can see her while invisible but nobody else can.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

I realize games are usually FF@20 now, but lets say, hypothetically, a game went long. So long, in fact, that players were reaching full build. Or even just "need every slot but not quite complete items" build.

At that point in the game, pink wards no longer exist. It's like a timer. Used to be, one or two people could upgrade their trinket and have a pink available to help with (insert reason to see invis champs here). Heck, even sweeper could be used in a fight. But now? Now all invisible champions/abilities have a new hidden power: They become undetectable late-game.

There is a simple solution, of course: Item slot #8: Ward Slot. If you feel that a slot just to hold pink wards is a bad idea, then you could do one of these things:

  1. Reinstate green wards since, PLEASE REINSTATE GREEN WARDS. Then the slot could hold pink or green.
  2. Allow the slot to hold any of these: item 2043 item 2049 item 2045
  3. Give us the ability to make the Vision Ward upgrade trinket again, so we could choose between: item 3362 item 3340 item 3363 item 3341 item 3364

On a very related note, there is a reason to keep item 3340 over item 3363 -- you can teleport to the wards, and they are harder to destroy. However, there is no reason to keep item 3341 over item 3364. I mean, would you like to detect a much smaller area for a shorter duration, or would you like to pay exactly nothing and detect a huge area that moves with you and lasts 50% longer? The choice is yours! Why not make the un-upgraded one actually useful. For instance, it could fully reveal invisible units in the area? It's duration could increase with level to be even longer than the oracle upgrade (since it is stationary). It's cooldown could be dramatically reduced.

TLDR: The vision situation sucks right now. Please do something to help alleviate it.

Yeah. The situation is bad. I've been wondering since they released sightstone AND trinkets why the sigtstone doesn't just sit in the trinket slot.

Also RIP eleisa's miracle.

High51 votes

I actually like the new ward system. When most people (hopefully everyone) starts warding effectively, I'd be happy to discuss changes.

Shiyo Kozuki1 votes

The vision situation REALLY DOES SUCK right now. I really want more wards. I'm sick of being ganked by a jungler then not even having the option to buy wards to protect myself because they don't exist.

Weathered1 votes

This isn't a good idea. And before you downvote, im not being negative im just thinking statistics. Sightstone is a full item because of the other stats it gives, and had a build path etc. If there was a slot for this, everyone would be able to have a sightstone on top of their build, causing there to be too much vision, as weird as that sounds. They other problem is that if there was an extra slot for pink wards, near everyone would have a pink ward on them right? Doesnt take up slots so its a good Idea, isnt it? Problem is, then champions like Rengar, Kha, Akali, and Shaco have some if not half of their kits invalidated. Everyone has a pink on hand means that shaco is near useless except for head on fighting, because his q is now only a small blink compared to his outplay potential as soon has someone pops a ward. The red trinket is balanced well, and is supposed to give vision in a small area so that you are away of location without being able to actually target them. I'm not against pink wards, they're amazing, but this would pose some problems on too many other subjects for it to be worth implementing.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The base red trinket has a cast range. This is relevant when you simply want to disable a ward, not kill it (usually when the enemy team is trying to steal Baron or dragon and you're nowhere near the ward).

MysteriousBootie1 votes

They should let you put down a max of like 5-10 pinks at a time per person. Vision is so weak now and you really can't depend on people in solo queue to ward for you (not even supports, but sometimes people are smart enough to ward). Yellow trinkets have HUGE cd's and blues are too obvious and easy to deal with. Not only are they visible and get 1-shot but for some reason when you put them down they create a massive visual effect for your enemies to see.

I liked the system even in season 5. You could buy your own wards and you didn't have to depend on other people to see more than a tiny quarter of the map.

Dalanin1 votes

Ruby Sightstone should grant a free vision ward every once in a while

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