Oracle alteration shouldn't be a mandatory upgrade of sweeping lens

Hochelaga·Mar 24, 2017·8 votes·1,216 views

Maybe i'm weird, but i'd rather stick with my sweeping lens up to level 13 instead of oracle because of the long cast range it provides and because of a greater area of disruption.

The only reason why I think supports (or oracle users) prefer to ''upgrade'' that trinket is because of the duration. You can destroy more wards this way and can scout for even more hidden things.

I've never seen a games where people keep sweeping lens instead of oracle

But i've seen plenty of games where people keep totem ward instead of farsight alteration

So uh... maybe we can buff Sweeper's duration from 6 to 10 based on level to make it more viable during late game?...

14 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonMar 24, 20175 votes

It's not, however. It's almost entirely better, sure, but it's still got some drawbacks. Sweeper lets you clear an area from a distance, something Oracle doesn't. But the reason people go Oracle over Sweeper isn't because of its duration, but because of its area. You could make Sweeper last 30 seconds and it wouldn't help, because you're stuck covering the same small area. No matter how you look at it, you can't change that without making either Oracle useless or Sweeper broken.

HochelagaMar 24, 20171 votes

A sweeper that would last 30 seconds (in your exemple) would be completely broken imo. People will learn to use it proprely during jungle fights and it basically disable all wards in a pretty huge area. Clearly if a fight would be in the jungle and that every ennemy wards is disable, you'll get a pretty huge terrain advantage.

Also preventing ennemies to scout your area for a long period (just thinking when a player wants to steal baron/dragon and clearly he is waiting to last hit the monster) would be pretty annoying.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 24, 20171 votes

An example with exaggeration. Obviously one that lasted for 30s would be busted. But you get my point. Unless you make it broken, Sweeper will almost always be inferior to Oracle, simply because you can cover a far larger area with Oracle.

JbelsMar 24, 20174 votes

It's a pretty big difference between the two. Totem is just objectively better than farsight most of the time. Your wards are visible, they die in one hit, and if somebody is close enough, they can see it being placed. That's not to say that Farsight is bad, it just isn't as useful until the super super late game when you need to be able to check baron or dragon from far away.

As for Oracle, it covers a much wider area, isn't stuck in one place, lasts much longer, and still gives all of the benefits of the previous upgrade, so I think it's a pretty natural progression

HochelagaMar 24, 20171 votes

Well see, my problem with Sweeper is why can't it be kept during late game. Unlike Farsight and totem which have the same goal of providing vision, why can't sweeper and oracle be a choice and not a mandatory upgrade during late game.

You do agree that oracle is way better than sweeper. So why not buff sweeper ?

For my point of view, Sweeper can provide an immense advantage during jungle fight since you'll be able to disable ennemies ward in bushes while having the option of staying far.

JbelsMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well see, my problem with Sweeper is why can't it be kept during late game. Unlike Farsight and totem which have the same goal of providing vision, why can't sweeper and oracle be a choice and not a mandatory upgrade during late game.

You do agree that oracle is way better than sweeper. So why not buff sweeper ?

For my point of view, Sweeper can provide an immense advantage during jungle fight since you'll be able to disable ennemies ward in bushes while having the option of staying far.

Don't you have to actively go into the shop and buy it if you want the oracle upgrade?

137434Mar 24, 20171 votes

Yes, but his point was that in 99% of the games there is no real compelling reason to keep using Sweeper vs switching to Oracles.

JbelsMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but his point was that in 99% of the games there is no real compelling reason to keep using Sweeper vs switching to Oracles.

I dunno, I kinda miss when we had more than one choice for the upgrade. Like, back then totem could upgrade into either a more powerful totem trinket, farsight, or Pink Totem, which was really helpful for not having to carry a pink ward in your inventory. I know Sweeper had another upgrade but it's been a long time and I've forgotten what it was

137434Mar 24, 20171 votes

Sweepers upgrade was Oracle's Lens. Sweeper at the time just revealed traps and wards in the area around you, but did not invisible champions. Oracles had the sweeper aspect but allowed you to sweep from range then gave you temporary true sight (allowing you to target invisible champions, see wards/traps near you).

137434Mar 24, 20171 votes

Sweeper really needs a much lower CD than Oracle lens late game (right now they are the same) to compensate for the fact that you can only scan one area, or like the Totem ward allow you to store 2 (or more!) sweeps.

Or make it like Ashe's E (or the plants that give vision). Drone flies from champion to target area sweeping along the way, then stays at target area for a bit. That actually might be useful, but it would reveal your location to enemy kind of.

HochelagaMar 24, 20171 votes

you know, the fact that sweeper can only ''scan/disable'' an area is not the problem. Like I said, it can become pretty darn annoying if you use sweeper to Disable wards during a team fight instead of just scouting destroy wards.

BUT, I do believe that it doesn't last long enough which is why people tend to get oracle instead of sweeper.

137434Mar 24, 20171 votes

The problem, as someone mentioned before, is area coverage.

Scan the wrong area with sweeper and you just wasted your trinket and have to wait 90 seconds. Activate Oracles and you can go to town in their jungle or wherever covering a much larger area, meaning you are more likely to make effective use of the trinket. Also, like sweeper, you can use it in team fights!

So Sweeping lens needs some form of compensation, either by letting you use it more often (lower CD or charge system), or by increasing the area of coverage (Sweep as flying to target area).

Note that Oracles' disabling range is larger than sweeping len's (to compensate for the fact that you can't sweep from far away safety).

HochelagaMar 24, 20171 votes

Like I said, no, area coverage is not the problem. duration is the problem as it should be the same like oracle

Scan the wrong area with sweeper and you just wasted your trinket and have to wait 90 seconds

Isn't that the same with farsight?

Note that Oracles' disabling range is larger than sweeping len's (to compensate for the fact that you can't sweep from far away safety).

I'm pretty sure squishy supports would rather have sweeper instead of oracle just for the safety.

Besides, isn't that main reason why you want farsight? You would be sacrificing a potential 120 seconds scout area in exchange for a gamble to see an area (which is by the way less vision than a normal ward)

137434Mar 24, 20171 votes

You are forgetting farsight also leaves behind a ward of unlimited duration giving you vision of the area (even if it is less vision than a vision ward) that doesn't count towards your ward cap. Vision is always useful, no matter where or how meager it is. ADCs like farsight because it allows them to check bushes without putting themselves at risk (as most ADCs lack long range abilities that also grant vision to check bushes with), while leaving behind a ward so they can see if people are coming to them.

If Sweeper left behind a control ward (that had less range than a normal control ward) that did not count towards you control ward cap Sweeper would be pretty popular too.